Phil xxkr

19 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Means Testing State Pensions is too complex, irrelevant and unlikely I feel as the OAPs Start Pension Drawing Date will just be extended to fit in with what's in the Chancellor's available budget to pay 

There's plenty of Means Testing already with PIPs and all those other Benefits that some deserving receive ................. and presumably there's many non-deserving recipients too 

Starmer and Reeves are simply blind to, or just ignoring,  the subtleties of this quagmire they've coagulated into and I'm not at all sure that they will zap themselves from this anytime soon 

 

522,770  Signatures now 

AGE  UK  Petition

WINTER FUEL PAYMENT

 

Malc

 

Not complex at Malc, just follow the same model as child benefits that reduce with earnings via your HMRC code. 

9 minutes ago, Mossypossy said:

Would be certain election death. Unlike this topic which although genuinely worrisome for some, will not topple any government.

We are 61 btw.

Not the point Steve. What you are witnessing here on the LOC is a microcosm of a wider malaise felt across the whole country. It seems everyday some new revelation tests the publics patience. Today for example, Starmer last year paid 25% tax on 400k of income in addition he took since 2019 more freebies than any other MP, 76k. Pat Mcfadden, cabinet minister claiming 40k to rent his next door home - it goes on and on. 🙁

20 hours ago, steve2006 said:

It’s growing Malc but just shows out of 11 million affected pensioners just over 0.5 million have signed. The government are well aware that pensioners in general don’t have access to or the ability to use modern technology and are unlikely to be marching through London in protest so are generally suppressed when it comes to voicing their opinions.

This also applies to Pension Credit applications where answering over 200 questions with no guarantee of success is enough to put off most pensioners applying.

We need to be careful here Malc, we could be labelled as Right Wing Pensioners! 😀

You are right Steve but how many of the 11 million are actually aware of it. I seem to recall for years Government has stated "you are ENTITLED" to this that and another. But we also know some people know how to game the system and obtain extraordinary payments. I don't think however that should be the line of enquiry. For me the question is "what have been your life circumstances that resulted in you qualifying for PC? We are now in this egregious situation of people getting WFA and a host of other benefits having finagled their way through the system and being paid for by people who haven't. Oh the irony! Furthering the demise of the OAP golden goose in support of parasitic bloodsuckers eventually leading to their own inevitable conclusion. 

2 hours ago, Mossypossy said:

Wait until your state pension is means tested.

A quantum leap in moaning.

Moaning? 🤔

19 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

 

From today's express 

"

Labour MP Alex Baker was hounded by angry pensioners at a pub where she was reportedly booed over the winter fuel payment cuts.

A video posted on X, formerly known as Twitter shows people at the pub shouting “Rushmoor people first” & “and our pensioners”.

Looking further into the Aldershot MP there are large contributions from Unions but more intriguing from a medical plc called OPD. It has had Virginia Bottmley as a director, and made significant contributions to Baker and Wes Streeting. Let's see which committee she pops up on? 

14 minutes ago, LenT said:

Well I was not surprised that this was The Plan all along.  I soon noted that no Labour shadow minister could debate the forthcoming Election without emphasising their commitment to the ‘working’ population.

I gathered that I - as a retiree living off savings and a pension - was therefore no longer regarded as ‘working’ and probably a drain on resources.  It would seem that the possibility that I had spent a ‘working life’ contributing to the creation of our Society did not appear to be a factor in Labour’s estimate of whether I should continue to exist in it!

Entirely agree Len. Our history of contributions is just that history and irrelevant to making today's choices. Unless it contains the words Aneurin Bevin all history is to be forgotten. And all you represent to them is an inheritance to be squandered like some wayward offspring. But when that runs out then what? 😕

21 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

If we consider what Labour have done in their, admittedly very brief, time in office so far and compare with what they said in Opposition and during the election campaign, then I think we get our answer.

- in Opposition, Labour admitted they expected to inherit the ‘worst fiscal situation since the war’;

- in Opposition, Labour spoke about taxation in traditional Labour language. They said they’d protect ‘working people’, they spoke about windfall taxes on energy companies, non-doms, large corporations such as Amazon paying their ‘fair share’, banking bonuses etc. The electorate liked that, and there was a perceived difference between that approach and the Conservatives;

- in Opposition, Labour said they’d restore ‘public service’ in Government, and would behave ethically and morally. They said they’d end ‘cronyism’ and scandal, and would deal with offences within their party swiftly if discovered.

Let’s now look at three months of their Government;

- the very FIRST THING they did, was claim surprise at the fiscal situation and target pensioners. Not the wealthy people they spoke about previously. Not the large corporations. Not even non-doms. Pensioners. That first statement is what will stick in people’s minds, and will rightly be used a a stick to beat Labour with for the next five years. I believe it was a significant miscalculation, but not one they can step away from without reminding the electorate about all their prior talk about Conservative ‘chaos’ and u-turns. Opposition is easy. Government is difficult;

- turning to ‘cronyism’ they didn’t even have the sense to wait for a bit! Clearly believing the population to be incredible stupid, they gave Civil Service jobs to donors and supporters, and Lord Alli received a Downing Street pass. The signs were there for those willing to look, Sue Gray breaking the Civil Service code to go and work for Labour being exhibit A;

- public service? This morning we hear that not only has Keir Starmer had his clothes paid for by Lord Alli, but his wife too…except his wife’s clothes weren’t declared. Ah, it’s just an oversight, nothing to see here they cry - except that previous Conservative ‘oversights’ in similar situations led to Labour howls for their resignation. Even using the word ‘oversight’ is odd, as it’s the same word used by their opponents previously, and to me that shows they’re either very naive, incredibly crass or just incompetent. On the BBC this morning David Lammy even tried to suggest that Keir Starmer ‘couldn’t afford’ to buy his own clothes which would ‘represent the country’ effectively on the world stage. The mind boggles…

- integrity? Putting aside the donor clothing funding scandal, we’ve already had a Labour MP who seems to be a dodgy landlord. Was he suspended? Reprimanded perhaps? Nope, certainly not publicly. However, vote against the Government and you’ll have the whip withdrawn. The bar for standards in public life obviously isn’t that high for Keir Starmer…

I could go on, but it’s depressing. The previous Conservative Government was poor. People did want change. What I think we’re seeing is greater ‘buyers remorse’ than I’ve ever witnessed after an election. That’s down to trust and integrity. They promised much, and are already failing to deliver. They KNEW the public finances were compromised - they’ve admitted that - but they didn’t mention Winter Fuel Payments, or Council Tax, or any of the other things they MUST have been considering.

In my experience with friends and colleagues, most simply believe Starmer and Reeves are liars. In the end, it’s as simple as that.

 

The mind certainly does boggle. Lammy? The same Lammy  who wore trainers and a suit on his American trip last week! Starmer? The same Starmer who lives in a £1million plus house, had a special tax treatment of his pension which means minimal affect to him however rules change, whose wife and sister are paid through the public purse. (Neil Kinnock and entire family spring to mind). And is reputably worth £8 million. That Starmer you mean? 

10 hours ago, Boomer54 said:

This was interesting for me given she is the MP for my area.

https://www.facebook.com/share/cc8KHxAGxYoAQcQK/

Fascinating, hope we see more of the same. Equally interesting to note a contributor on the LOC asked if they can stop getting WFA updates on here as it's "flooding his emaibox" 😕! Wonder if he truly understands the enormity of this ploy? Yes it's about pensioners now as a measure of public outcry but the goal is to diminish the State Pension over time and be replaced by means tested private ones 🙁

37 minutes ago, RONNIE W HODGEKINSON said:

Phil Car Insurance seems to be Calculated and Scored on Algorithims,,Ie Car Value/age/Location/Parking/ Thefts/ Driver age/ Penalties/ Occupation/ Mileage/ Accidents/etc...How they calculate the Risk Is Beyond Me..Its one BIG lottery..!!!!!

Fundamentally I suspect they don't actually care as long as their overall revenue to bottom line numbers meets expectations. Furthermore their financial modelling is sufficiently sensitive enough to tweak any element to take account of any unforeseen blip in anticipation of risk. 

17 hours ago, Boomer54 said:

Yes, coroners would likely identify death by hypothermia. However, to really make it count you need to do something dramatic. Something like create a high profile wall and literally post every name up there who dies in such a manner starting from this winter. Age Uk might want to take out an annual advert to just print in large font that number every year to reinforce the impact.

More than happy to contribute to the such an initiative 🙂

26 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

If only we had a functioning opposition then we might have seen some real effort to make some punches count. Even the media don't seem to be particularly interested in making more of this. But then there is little true journalism left. 

Agreed 👏

11 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

Who knows - there doesn't seem to be any checks and balances any more - just lies and more lies... 

11 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

Who knows - there doesn't seem to be any checks and balances any more - just lies and more lies... 

No Phil, you see your interpretation and mine of what is true no longer applies, our understanding is wrong. What is up is now down, what used to be right is now wrong, what used to be behavioural madness and criminal behaviour no longer attracts a custodial sentence. 

8 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

No impact assessment was done: 

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/12/no-winter-fuel-payments-impact-assessment-was-carried-out-no-10-admits

Astounding! But do you believe them? 

58 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

When you get hypothermia you don't actually realise you are cold - it's beyond feeling cold and why it's so dangerous as you don't take any further steps to warm yourself. 

Dr Caroline Johnson MP Sleaford gave a wonderful description of the consequences in the House yesterday, well worth a look. 👍

57 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Whichever way and how and when and who …….. simple fact is Labour has won the Election …….. and is dragging us all screaming and shouting down a very negative gloom and doom path, led by our PRIME MINISTER in some high vocal full measure,  that’s going to lead the nation’s finances possibly into oblivion and catastrophic hardship for those less able to look after their own finances to best effect 

OAPs are just the very first to be whacked around the head mercilessly owing to lack of any means to rebel and repel this onslaught ……… I’m amazed I’m personally encouraged, by the TUC struggling to try to find a way thru’ the Starmer Stargazing Reeve’s way to stop this awful onslaught 

TUC Members must be struggling to know how far to go to bring this Govt to its Social Socially Effective Principles ……, Winter of Discontent and Disruption could well be ahead ……

Focus one’s energies to protect those less able ……. this Labour Govt sure won’t

Look out for your OAP neighbours who might be severely impacted, suffering winter cold and hunger  

Just do it eh ! 

Malc 

Absolutely Malc, there's an interactive map in one of the papers showing relevant numbers and how many might be affected in everyone's particular area, it's worth a look. Octopus are running a support campaign for those in need, there's a thought? 

10 minutes ago, Boomer54 said:

 I am going to reverse your question .In terms of extra seats won very hard to say. However, I refer you back to my earlier posts regarding votes cast. It is clear that Tory and Reform added together exceeded the total votes cast for Labour. I think we can conclude Labour would have still won enough seats to be elected, but their majority would have been considerably smaller. That is very important, because they would have had to pick their shots on policy much more selectively.

Just in case I need to clarify. Farage you are a train wreck for Conservative voters . You have done more to damage that party than Labour have managed to accomplish in over a decade and a half.

I have no patience with Reform voters, because they ignored the obvious. That is, they could have furthered their goals a lot more by simply voting Tory than they could ever hope to have accomplished by voting Reform who are unelectable in any real sense. In effect they have simply enabled Labour to come to power with a huge majority and whatever they thought they wanted is now further away than ever.

Come on now. Use your brains voters.

If that's using your brains then I do worry. The essence of your view is we should be content with the two party system with first past the post for ever. Fascinating how people castigate Reform voters but never Liberal voters. And conveniently forget Reform stood down in many areas allowing Conservatives an eighty seat majority. For what gain to either the country or Reform? Until we support an effective catalyst for true change then we shall continue to be hamsters on the wheel. 

1 hour ago, wharfhouse said:

You could look at it that way around too... Same outcome - the combined Conservative and Reform vote was significantly higher than the Labour vote. I know come usual Conservative voters also voted LibDem - so again if the Conservatives had not got themselves in such a mess previously then they would have taken this seat.

See here for the breakdown of votes for the new seat of Reading West and Mid Berkshire: https://members.parliament.uk/constituency/4254/election/422 

Agreed. So why would you want to vote again for such losers? 🤔

1 hour ago, Malc1 said:

this IMPACT ASSESSMENT  that the Govt witheld prior to the vote in the House

 

How do we get to understand this Assessment on the Withdrawal of the Winter Fuel Payment 

does anybody know yet ?

Thanks

 

Malc

Rishi Sunak asked today and got no response. It looks like we will need a whistleblower from the Treasury. 

2 minutes ago, GMB said:

Cheaper fags and beer 'cos Nigel likes them.

But you can only do this if you take LESS money off people. 

1 hour ago, wharfhouse said:

We had a new constituency this year due to boundary movements. A new young Labour MP managed to win this newly formed seat, which I was a bit surprised at, but only with a majority of 1,361. Without the vote for Reform which clearly damaged the Conservatives (Reform took 13% of the vote in this seat) the Conservatives would have won it easily.

The new MP voted FOR the WFA cut - will be interesting to see if she hangs on next time around!!!

If the people voted Reform and not Conservative what would have been the outcome? 

11 hours ago, The-Acre said:

It might be wishful thinking. I'm surprised the government hasn't come up with a plan to put UK pensioners boots on the ground in Ukraine, problem solved, and I'd be one of them!

But there is a plan Phil. That is to completely airbrush you out as a group. York uni wants to omit the words OAP, pensioners, elderly etc. Thereby removing any emotional attachment to the term. Thereafter you can be seen as just another consumer of resources of the State. Welcome to the Brave New World of Aldous Huxley👏

2 hours ago, John Adams said:

Good news!!!

According to my MP it looks as though they are going to let us keep the £10 Christmas bonus. All we have to do know is decide what to spend it on. Difficult decision.

Stamps for letters to your MP telling them what you spent it on! 

33 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Govt                      IMPACT STATEMENT

 

I was aware from somewhere that this was being held back until after the MPs vote yesterday in the House 

So then, how do we press and who, to see it and simply, its IMPACT  on the OAPs this winter  ?

Malc

 

508,747   Signatures thus far

AGE  UK   Petition

WINTER FUEL ALLOWANCE

I've dropped a line to Lee Anderson Reform party he was spitting feathers on interview yesterday 👍

14 hours ago, Boomer54 said:

Perhaps we should publish a list of MP's homes where OAP's can go keep warm this winter.

Do you mean when empty and still heated? 

3 hours ago, Malc1 said:

I did say about a month back here for us all to look out for our neighbours this coming winter ……. just take a little time to see what’s going on for them ……. making sure all looks ok  …….. as best we can 

There will be for sure a few  000s OAPs who will die from cold and hunger this winter …… and all as a result of this draconian Govt evil action  

 

Malc 

Well said Malc