Steven Lockey

Makes sense.

Ok, but if the Sun wheel is locked, then there is no electric been generated.... Which was what I was saying, didn't say it didn't require any electric power AT ALL.... spark plugs need power as well!

Yes that was my point... so your battery would be flat by cruising since MG2 is outputting more power than MG1 is generating according to those tabes. That smaller shocks are more effectively dampened. Makes sense to me.... I realise you aren't in the UK so not sure on your local laws, but in the UK if they say something that would in common language be interpreted that way, they are liable and can be sued, so they are generally VERY careful to not do that. Yeah... I'm not reading the entire forum.... that just links to the forum index. Given what we've seen since about the battery limits, what I thought was right. Which is exactly what I saw saying, the car can change the amount of power MG1 draws from the ICE, which is exactly what your tables show. No idea, the guy who fitted it did the work.... not me. Hes an experienced Lexus engineer and quite a few people on this forum have used him and I've not seen any complaints. Fairly sure the boost converter hasn't been touched. It may just be the fact the old battery was dodgy so it's just operating at potential now, that was the reason for the battery swap. I measured a noticable (0.4s) 0-60 improvement over several runs with Traction control off, not sure how reliable the numbers are but it feels quicker. Numbers were based off OBD reports so not 100% reliable. May be that not all the power has to run through the boost convertor as even the basic battery has more potential output than the boost convertor can handle. Again, no such thing in electronics as either. Converter and inverter are very specific terms meaning quite specific things as is Boost Converter. Neither do AC-DC-AC as that would be pointless. All the googling I can see if this is just a name someone has given to a combination of an inverter and a boost convertor, which are entirely separate components electronically even if they get built into the same unit. Nope, thats a boost converter, not a converter. Slightly confusing but they are very different things.

Yep, thats a good video. The only bit you said I was disagreeing with was the fix % electrical draw from the engine. That video shows where it locks the centre cog, so mg1 stops turning and the ICE drives then directly turns the outer-ring on the planuar cogs. So basically, you could get a lot more power but you'd need to install much bigger voltage battery and bypass the boost convertor (no easy job) and probably rewrite a LOAD of the ECU.

Ah, thats not a 'Convertor' thats a 'Boost Convertor' they are very different things in electronics 🙂

Just re-read this.... WHAT???? That's just not right.... The only reason to convert AC-DC-AC would be to change the frequency which has VERY rare applications! Also an inverter and a converter are complete opposites..... there is no such thing as a AC-DC-AC converter or inverter. One does AC-DC the other does DC-AC. The inverter (for the traction engine) is rated at 250KW. The convertor as far as I can see is just used to provide power for the electronics. I know it's been 20 years since I took my electrician qualification but that seems very wrong!

The wiki page also seems to agree with me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive (yes I know its wiki 😉 But it's yet another source agreeing with me) And I've found the issue. Its the battery, the standard battery does have a max output of 52BHP/39KW, so for the electrics to provide more, it uses MG1 to provide the extra charge when its in a range where the electrics are more efficient. The electrics themselves can handle far more power (they have to for regenerative braking, I assume they can charge faster than they can discharge, most can). Also explains why mine is a bit quicker since I don't have the standard battery, I got an uprated 3rd party one 🙂 Again I forgot about that bit in a previous post about electric only acceleration but apparently according to the specs mine has a maximum output of 53KW.

1> Car companies that makes claims which are easily disproved are rarely not sued by someone 🙂 2> Its a very high level overview yes. I've got something similar which plugs into the OBD port and records performance. I've not used it in a while but I'm pretty sure it was telling me that the electric wasn't constantly running. 3/4/5> Honestly, why did you think I was digging through tech manuals??? However everything I'm reading supports what I said! The first link you posted seems to support what I was saying. See slide 6: "The power split device distributes the engine power as appropriate to directly drive the vehicle as well as the generator." Emphasis mine. Its not constantly running mg1 as a generator and pushing with mg2. I know some older hybrids did that, most of them couldn't use the engine directly power directly to the roads at all, the ICE was only there to power the generator. This is 100% certainly not the case with the GS450h. Also I find it slightly hard to believe the tables you posted. Not saying they are necessarily wrong, just the numbers may not mean what you think they mean, or they may be reporting potentials rather than 'it does do this'. According to them your MG2 even when cruising is draining the battery as its using more kw than the MG1 is producing constantly even when cruising. That 100% isn't right cos otherwise my battery would be empty on my long motorway runs and it isn't. And I'm pretty sure they aren't BOTH running as generators as that would make no sense for one having negative torque numbers and the other not. Even then, when cruising the MG1 was generating 1-2KW of power.... which is basically enough to run the AC and other bits inside the car I would guess. I mean boiling a kettle can use up to 3KW so that seems like its basically running as a standard alternator at that point. I never said the car can't or wouldn't do this, just that it doesn't do it all the time and doesn't constantly take the same fixed % of power from the ICE, your tables clearly support what I was saying as you can see for example on the one where you are cruising at 93 (mph? kph? no idea 😉 ), at the start, the engine power is 31.34 and mg1 is 4.2, 1 second later the engine power is at 39.96 but mg1 has dropped to 0.18. That would be literally impossible if what Thackney has said was true. mg1 kw would always be a direct multiple of the engine power. I'm sure when the car is in the range where using the electrics is more optimal it will do exactly that.

Also just looked at the manual and it does say the console will show if either MG1 or 2 is powering the wheels.

1> If Lexus said that and they specifically state that either can power the car entirely independently and it's not true, they could and would of been sued by now. 2> You can see on the console what the hybrid system is doing and if the electric motors are running at all. It tells you on the central console (if it's in the right display mode) exactly what the system is doing. Only time I've seen it generate extra electric power was when my battery was dodgy. It also shows whenever the electric is adding power. I don't think they would make the system lie. 3> I've read that people disabled the hybrid system entirely (no complete circuit) and the car was still drivable. Not 100% sure on that as its just something random people said on the internet. 4> It may be the generator can draw variable amounts of power, much like it does under braking. So under standard operation its only drawing similar amounts of current to what the alternator on a normal car does? 5> Not sure what you mean about been directly attached to the road wheels.... no car has the engine directly attached to the road-wheels, that's what the gear-box does. What you are describing is when the car is in neutral. Is this was the case the car would only ever be able to output the electric power of the motors. Done a bit of reading up, it does look like the generator is constantly running but just draws as much power as it needs. Reading the guide to the hybrid system it claims there is a power-splitter which can vary how much power goes to the wheels and how much to the generator. "In normal driving, engine output is divided by the Power Split Device to drive the wheels directly and to power the generator, which in turn drives the electric motor and simultaneously charges the high-voltage battery. In these circumstances, power allocation is constantly monitored and adjusted between engine and motor to maximise efficiency" They do actually say here its optimised for smoothness of acceleration as well, which would imply they sacrifice some of the performance they could get. In addition I think as the electrics work best at near 0 mph and the ICE works best over 40 mph, it may be that neither can output their max at the same speeds. Hard to read, looks like most of this is translated from japanese (badly lol). This might be different on the IS300H

Could always find one in a different colour and have a wrap applied?

According to Lexus that isn't right 🙂 If you are just running on ICE, it disconnects the generators so the ICE is directly powering the wheels on their own. What you are describing is a serial hybrid which isn't what the GS uses. "Lexus Hybrid Drive is known as a full hybrid system, meaning that its two power sources – a battery-powered electric motor and a petrol-driven combustion engine – are entirely separate from one another. Either of them can power the car on their own, or the power from both units can be combined." Also given the GS450h is far heavier than my old citroen Saxo 1l which had 50hp and accelerates on the electrics alone faster than the Saxo did, pretty sure it can output a lot more than 50hp 🙂 Hard to tell cos the ICE kicks in at about 10-15mph when accelerating hard, but sure its a lot more than 50hp. Was reading up on it before, it does look like it's just a software limitation to make the ride and acceleration smooth. There is no reason for example the car would maintain linear acceleration from 60-130ish if it didn't have spare power. Basically the software is designed to favour comfort over performance and to limit the strain on various components to help ensure long-term reliability. From what some engineers where saying, basically you'd have to rewrite the ECU controller to unlock it's potential and I think that is hard-coded onto a chip so not something you could do easily at all. A shame in some ways but as Roy said.... its plenty fast enough already!

I went from a 1.4l Rover 25 so I know what you mean 🤣

Did some digging on the other day, the combined possible total is 483, but the software locks it to 338. From what I can tell the transmission e.t.c. can easily handle it, it's just the software locking it in place. Unfortunately there don't seem to be any tools to reprogram the software in the car to give it that extra ump it's capable of. I've noticed the traction control is very much the same, its tuned on the conservative side so it never if at all slips, but could really apply quite a bit more power during acceleration. I think that might be the difference between the 5.2 and 5.6 0-60 times, 5.2 is with the traction control off.

Actually a shame you can't unlock the GS450h, its got a lot more power than it actually uses when you put your foot down. The ICE has a max power of 286hp and the electrics can put out 197hp, so in theory it could output 483hp, but it's actually limited to 338hp total when everything I can see could easily handle the full power. Also the manual says 5.2s 0-60 on the gs450h, but other guides say 5.6 or 5.9. I only know mine is closer to 5.2s but then I think the uprated battery I got gives me slightly more low end grunt then the normal one.

A 3rd part replacement battery costs between £1.8k and £2.2k, including fitting e.t.c. https://www.hybridbatterysolutions.co.uk/ Are brilliant for that. The 2.2k is a good chunk better than the standard lexus one, how reliable it is I don't know, ask me in a few years 😉 Been good for the last 18 months is all I can really say.

If you've cleared it with a reader, then it was cleared. It means the system is detecting a new error. Not something that is likely to be resolved that easily I'm afraid. So long as the error code is stored, the warning light displays, so if that went off, the code had been flashed already. The car does do self-diagnostics which resets code so you may have an intermittent issue.

All the badges are removed including the GS450h one. Found a post with him trying to claim it was much cheaper than it was 🙂 He also had it wrapped a much more sedate colour than the bright red it was. Figure you are probably right and its a SE, figured it was a Sport as the lexus tech website when I input my VIN says it has the full stabilisation system which I thought only the sport had. It might actually be an 08 model, it was registered in 08 but 07 models often are. It doesn't have the indicators in the door mirrors so I figure it must be pre-face lift.

Sport spec for a lot at least is very similar to SE-L, misses a few bits (wood trim, smart key) but gains the active suspension. Both have the vented seats, improved sound system e.t.c. Depends on the year I guess

Am starting to think the dealer that sold me my GS 450h Sport for £2k was more below market price than he thought 🙂

Really? Thanks for the correction. I thought the hybrid check covered the entire system!

Basically the same as what I got except mine was a year younger. 3300 Seems a bit much if its 14 years old to be honest unless it is in A++ condition. Basically at 15 years old then the battery is likely to need replacing a refurb at minimum (£700) or a replacement (£2k). But if its had the hybrid check then yeah lexus will sort any problems with the hybrid system for free till its 15 years old. As a comparison, I paid £1700 for mine. with 164k on the clock and 13 years old. It definitely sounds like this is over the book price so I'd try and haggle it down a bit. If the dealer will give you a 2 year dealer warranty including the battery as part of the price, then its worth it. Basically unless you are very unlucky, the main issues with the GS450h are the suspension struts and the battery. Not heard many stories of the CVT going, the one on the GS450h very sold. You can replace all 4 struts for about 1k + labour.

Wasn't specifically directed at you 🙂

Ah makes sense. When tyre manufactures see people with unusual sizes turn up, their eyes go kerching 😉 Probably had to adjust the tyre sizes to balance that massive 5.0l v8 sitting on the front wheels 😉

I wouldn't get the lower-end BridgeStones but the higher ones are as good as any of the other premium ones from what I've seen and test results I've seen.