m4rkw

The *replaceable* filter assembly is one of the main reasons to change the fluid. But I'm out, you know my opinion.

Would be grateful if you could share the name of his garage so I know never to take my car there 🙂

Would just like to note that I was much more polite than nicnac 😛

Opinions differ. I am extremely skeptical that transmission fluid never loses its viscosity, but in any case that isn't the only factor mandating a change, some good information here: http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/45

Buy older cars that don't have the newer-style keys that are prone to this kind of attack 🙂 I have an arduino-based tracker in mine that I wrote the software for. As others have said it is generally better to not let it get stolen in the first place.

If you hear the word "flush" - run. That's usually not the correct service procedure. Should be drop the pan, drain the fluid, replace filter assembly, check a few things, reassemble and refill. A flush sometimes means they connect it up to a machine that pumps generic fluid in and straight back out again, not really cleaning it much and potentially causing damage. It does make them a lot of money though.

Full refresh is a misleading term, I don't think they ever get close to all of the fluid out. Ask if it includes replacing the filter assembly, if it has one.

Apparently it's not a good idea, as cold cranking amps goes up, reserve capacity goes down. Therefore it would seem that the correct battery for the car is the better option. Who knew!

Other than perhaps cost is there any reason not to go to halfords and just get the biggest Yuasa battery that will physically fit in the space available?

True but what’s the alternative in that situation? £3k isn’t going to buy a replacement car that id be happy with, and even if it did it would be an unknown quantity. Seems far more sensible to stick with the car I know is otherwise tip top.

Price and cost are not the same thing. Sometimes the cheapest way out is the most expensive way in. I try to aim for lowest overall cost of car ownership. Cost does not just include money it also includes things like time and inconvenience.

I am curious though, if maintenance costs exceed the on-paper value of the car do you just discard it and buy a new one or keep it going? What metrics do you use to make such a decision one way or the other?

This is a given, but again value on paper is meaningless to most people with older cars. The value of my car is that I can get into it and drive somewhere. The value of that has not diminished at all during the time I've owned it and the averaged out monthly cost of keeping it in good condition is well worth it for that benefit.

Lets also not forget our poor friend Stuart whose LS is now stuck in the south of france because something failed unexpectedly. Admittedly his problem wasn't a neglect of servicing but more neglect on the part of whoever did his MOT, but I take my family to rural Brittany most years and if the transmission went out over there I imagine it would be a total nightmare.

Case in point: I suspect that a good quality replacement transmission for my car, with installation, would be more in the ballpark of £3k. The car is maybe worth £2500 ish, it's hard to know really because there are so few harriers around so nothing on the market to compare it with, but this is my approximate suspicion. If the transmission failed tomorrow I wouldn't hesitate to replace it, because I know the rest of the car has been well looked after and I can easily expect to get another 100k out of it without another major problem. Spending £3k on a new used car would be a much greater risk in terms of unknowns and potential problems, and I doubt I'd get something as nice as my car.

Cars in a working state, particularly ones with a known history and where you've made sure they are serviced correctly, are often worth a lot more to their owner than their market resale value. Rather than just looking at what the car is worth on paper you should look at what it would cost to replace it, and take into consideration the array of unknowns that a new used car brings with it. Also "lifetime" from the mouth of a manufacturer means expected service life. For most cars these days that's around 100k. "sealed for life" means exactly what it says, because when the fluid's all burnt up it's done.

I'm not aware of any hard data available on this, I only have other people's opinions to go on. However I've yet to meet a trusted technician who would advise not changing the fluid, consensus seems to be that somewhere above 100k they will start to show problems if not maintained. Garage owners who see loads and loads of cars and transmission failures all seem to say the same thing, change the fluid. A cynical person might say "well of course they do, that's how they make money" but I've also had the same people turn down work they could have easily taken because they are honest people. I also suspect that £1200 is highly optimistic for a high quality replacement transmission. Maybe you could get the job done for that but I doubt you'll get another 200k out of the replacement unit. When I had my fluid changed at 77k Russell showed me the jar of fluid he'd drained out of it, it was dark brown and obviously depleted. At the end of the day it's a balance of risk, if you're happy to take the risk then good luck to you, I like to drive with the confidence that I'm going to get where I'm going.

You got lucky. Just like someone who smoked a load of cigarettes all their life and lived to their 90s, it happens. Doesn't mean it's statistically likely though.

Also, re: your point about your transmission that nearly made it to 200k without a fluid change - everyone can point at one person who smoked 40 a day for their entire life and lived to 92. I'd rather base my decisions on what happens in the aggregate though.

I do about 10k miles/year, so £300 every 50k is about £5/month, hardly breaking the bank. I got the car with 77k on it and the transmission fluid was the very first thing I did. I did the second change again last year after only 20k for a couple of reasons: 1) i was working from home a lot, and my job doesn't normally allow wfh so it was much easier to get it to a trusted independent, 2) a drain and refill doesn't get all of the fluid out and I was conscious that it was changed later than ideal the first time. Also I'm very very skeptical that you can get a reliable transmission replacement for £400. Maybe you can buy a unit for that, a quick look on ebay reveals two U241E units (the one for my car). One is £300 or best offer from Estonia, with a 3-month warranty. The other is about £1000 from germany with a 12-month warranty. Those prices are obviously without installation which I suspect is a fair bit of labour. The large price differential tends to point towards likely reliability. So lets say I were to scrimp on fluid changes and destroy my transmission, and then buy the cheap unit from estonia. What do we think the labour is to install a transmission, 5 hours or so? So £300 unit, best part of £500 for installation, £800. The unit fails a month after installation. Labour is not going to be refundable for a garage that installed a 3rd party transmission, so that's dead money, and then what are you going to do about the unit? Sure it has a warranty, but that's for the unit only. You'll need to pay another heavy labour charge to have it removed from the car and then the cost of sending it back to Estonia is likely most of the initial purchase price. So as well as a huge chunk of money down the drain you've also got the inconvenience of an unreliable car leaving you stranded at the side of the road waiting for the RAC. I often take long road trips during the summer, I want to be as sure as I can be that my car isn't going to break. To be honest I think the price quoted for the unit from germany is cheap as well, but with a one-year warranty maybe it's going to be somewhat more reliable. However that unit is still £1000, plus ballpark £500 for installation, £1500. If I was going to skip fluid changes and just buy a transmission when it fails, at £5/month saving my current unit would need to last 25 years. It just doesn't make sense to do this.

I would hazard a guess that the quoted £150 did not include a filter replacement. Some cars don't have a replaceable filter assembly but a 2007 IS? I'd be surprised if it wasn't replaceable.

Things done properly cost money. A transmission fluid change is not something you want to scrimp on imho. The labour was only 1h 15min, the rest of the cost was parts and fluid, the strainer assembly alone is £92.98.

A used broken one? 😛

I think Lepsons are regarded as one of the best, if you care about the car that much.

Since you're in London I would highly recommend taking it to Russell Birch at Toyotec in Red Hill. He's done mine twice, car runs great, no issues.