Thackeray

On 12/9/2021 at 9:26 AM, Linas.P said:

cranking noise

This brought back a memory for me from 20 years ago. A two-year-old Mercedes diesel had exactly the same pattern of briefly starting, then not firing at all; then briefly starting, then not firing at all. The car was under warranty and the dealer struggled to find the cause. Although this sounds almost exactly the same, it's unlikely that it's the same cause. But just in case it sparks any ideas, I'll tell you what the dealer tried before solving it.

First of all, it only happened in winter. The car was started from cold, driven three or four miles - not enough to fully warm up - then stopped. And then it wouldn't restart and instead did the pattern in the youtube recording above.

I called the breakdown service but after 20 minutes of cooling down it had fixed itself before they arrived. But it kept happening and the dealer made three attempts to fix it.

First, they said it was air in the fuel supply and changed some part which they didn't specify. By then it was summer and the problem disappeared until the cold weather.

But when November weather came, it did it again. This time the dealer changed the catalytic converter - or so they said. They didn't give a convincing explanation of why. But it didn't fix the problem.

At the third attempt, they changed camshaft and crankshaft sensors and that seemed to fix it. The problem went away and didn't come back.

I don't suppose any of this is going to help with a completely different car. But the recording of the symptom sounded so familiar that I thought it might be of interest and maybe prompt some ideas.

21 minutes ago, Worsley said:

will take it to a tyre company in Wigan , who have Hunter diagnostic machinery

In my experience resulting from advice from an MOT tester, the key thing is to find a garage with a Hunter machine and people who know how to use it properly. I discovered this after a tyre place adjusted the tracking on a one-year old car for me. They left the steering wheel off centre so I went back. The boss had another go and if anything it was worse.

So I just put up with it for a long time. As Rayaans said above I just thought "Most cars will pull to the left slightly due to the way the road is in the UK".

Then I got the advice from the MOT tester and looked for a garage with a Hunter machine. I vowed not to go back to a tyre place where most of their experience is with ripping tyres off wheels and telling customers they don't need to use a torque wrench.

Instead I found a small independent with a Hunter machine. The result was a marvel. The car never felt so firmly planted four square, even compared with when it was new. It didn't pull to the left either.

When I got my IS I had assumed I'd probably need to take it to the garage with the Hunter machine. But it's been perfect since I had it. No pulling to either side, steering wheel dead centre. Goes dead straight. It can be done, and even a Lexus dealer may get it wrong.

3 hours ago, pedrofromredro said:

will give Lexus a call now and get one ordered

It'll be interesting to see if a new 12v Battery solves the problem. People often point out that with conventional cars you can tell that the 12v Battery is failing because you can hear the starter motor getting slower and slower whereas on these hybrids there's no warning that the 12v Battery is about to fail. But perhaps a lack of heated seats is a signal that you need a new Battery. Maybe you can report back when you find out the answer!

Interesting (and reassuring) that the car will start on such a low voltage!

As for the fans, bear in mind that if you have the climate control on Auto they will scarcely operate in cold weather until the engine is warm enough to provide some heat. This can be several minutes depending on the outside temperature. There's a long discussion on this issue on the NX forum here.

2 hours ago, pedrofromredro said:

when the car has been left for a day the voltage has been 10.4 v.I have taken the battery of and charged it but the voltage still drops slowly but it drops.when it is in the car and ignition is on or in ‘ready’ mode it is 14 v.but unsure if the heated seats should still come on when the car is switched on 

The heated seats and the fans should come on as soon as the car is in Ready mode. It may be that if the 12v circuits still have low voltage the computers don't allow them to start until the voltage is high enough. I've never experienced this. When the voltage is showing around 14 or 14.5v, this is because the high voltage Battery has begun feeding the 12v circuit to recharge the 12v Battery. It doesn't mean the 12v Battery is healthy (or unhealthy for that matter - it just means the recharging has started.)

Just out of interest, would the car start at 10.4 volts? I've seen it start at 11.4v but I don't know whether it can still start at lower voltages. Mincey has made the interesting discovery (above) that the manual seems to imply that the car should start down to 11v. I didn't know that was in the manual. It would be interesting to know how true it is.

4 hours ago, Russell Wheeler said:

I have one of these in the car to start it https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393205362280?hash=item5b8cddae68:g:BboAAOSw9hBgVHeT 

This looks a good price and a good capacity - 20,000 mAh. But being unbranded, I wonder how long have you had it in the car?

And how long does it stay fully charged? Are you using it to jump start the car? Do you think it's sturdily and safely made?

Sorry for the list of questions but I'll probably buy one if you can recommend it.

On 11/26/2021 at 2:20 PM, First_Lexus said:

Shoes off? Probably driven by the new middle classes in the early Victorian era.

A fascinating account of changes in social habits. But I'm doubtful that people would take off their shoes when visiting a house as a guest in the early Victorian era.

A lot of people didn't have shoes in the early Victorian era! If they did, it would be far too cold on flagstone floors to take them off.

When a lady visited a friend for tea she would keep her hat on as a courtesy to her host or hostess. I can't imagine her keeping her hat on but taking her shoes off!

In Britain at least I've only seen this habit take off over the last two or three decades. With film going back nearly 100 years now, there would be some evidence of this happening if it had begun so long ago. But I can't say I've ever noticed it.

So yes, people now often take off their shoes when visiting friends. But I doubt this convention began in the 19th century or much earlier than the late 20th century.

On 11/21/2021 at 8:52 PM, VFR said:

a top loading washing machine is the way to go, easy to load, very flexible in use, bearings where the should be for long life.

I remember a radio programme many years ago which was discussing the difference between American and European kitchens. One speaker said a European kitchen was the one where you couldn't find the appliances. Less true today than it was then, I imagine, as more American kitchens have appliances hidden behind cupboard doors!

But every home washing machine I've seen in America has been a top loader. And the speaker on this programme said the problem with top loaders (at that time, anyway - I can't say that I make much effort to keep up with toploader news) was that the clothes on the outside of the drum get all the action but the ones in the middle of the drum near the impeller rotating back and forth just wobble about a bit and don't get properly clean.

By contrast, a front loading machine gives equal cleaning action to all the clothes because every item is spun to the top of the drum and then dropped forcibly onto the bottom of the drum, like an Indian riverside outdoor laundry service with employees smashing the clothes down on the rocks as the river flows over the garments.

20 hours ago, Sherra said:

As a retired time served (43yrs) gas engineer and last 10 yrs of work a Technical Trainer I second the idea that Vaillant are Lexus equivalent of the boiler world, however Vaillant (German) and Glow Worm (British) merged some years back and many are made in their Belper factory.

Vaillant has been the boiler of choice for many, many years and still recommended by older gas engineers I know after a lifetime of reliability. But I've noticed the younger engineers, while acknowledging the strengths of Vaillant suggest they're fading and being challenged by a similarly large German company Viessmann. They say, for example, the stainless steel heat exchangers used by Viessmann are more durable than the aluminium used on some Vaillants. They also say some Vaillants are rebadged Gloworms.

What do you think, Paul. Is Viessmann the up and coming boiler to choose nowadays?

37 minutes ago, Sherra said:

look at the MPG on the dash if it goes down it confirms that the engine is indeed running and using fuel

A good idea!

It would be good to know how long the engine runs. If it's only half a minute, it might not be long enough to register on the mpg, though.

55 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

It's interesting in that both my RC models the engine will fire up after an overnight stop within 10secs of Ready mode (unless I invoke EV mode) but the car is moving under electric power. The engine is running but isn't under load. I can watch the battery bars reducing and on reaching 2 bars the engine note changes and I feel a slight sure in drive (I have a steep uphill from my house).

I'm sure the ICE fires up to warm itself and the fluids, even in mid summer when there is no heat required for the cabin, just to be ready for when the traction battery needs a recharge (which obviously is quite soon). I guess it's all to reduce wear (not to load the engine until warm)  and improve efficiency

Yes, I was surprised to find that if you drive away straight after starting the car, you're actually using power from the Battery initially rather than from the engine until it has gone through its multiple warming up stages. The Hybrid Assistant app tells you which of the five (or six) warmup stages the engine has reached. (Sorry for another plug for Hybrid Assistant!)

Here's a link setting out more than most people want to know about the engine warm-up stages.

49 minutes ago, Zabe said:

My battery has more than enough charge but the petrol engine stays on.

Are you sure the engine is actually using fuel? Have a look at the Hybrid Assistant app, which will tell you if fuel is being used. I may have misunderstood your description but it seems

• (a) the car has been running for an hour and should be fully warmed up,
• (b) the high voltage Battery is virtually fully charged,
• (c) when the car is parked after the long run the engine keeps turning when the car is stationary and
• (d) the charge in the high voltage Battery goes down as the engine keeps turning.

My guess would be that all this points to the hybrid system deciding to reduce the charge in the Battery from what may be close to its normal maximum. It does this by drawing on the electricity in the Battery to turn motor-generator 1 (MG1), which in turn spins the petrol engine without using any petrol. This reduces the charge of the Battery from its maximum.

But if you find that petrol is being used when the engine spins while the car is stationary and at the same time the charge in the Battery is going down, there must be another explanation.

It sounds as if the engine wouldn't be running to provide heat if you have the climate control turned off. One unlikely possibility is that you've been going down a long hill and the high voltage Battery has been charged to maximum. Even when the car stops, the car may reduce the Battery charge by using the electric motor to spin the engine without fuel. What you hear sounds like the engine running but it isn't running on fuel. I would think this is unlikely unless you routinely take a route down a long hill.

(Edit: your last post says the charge level goes down, which makes this explanation sound possible.)

On the other hand, when the Battery is low the engine will run, even when stationary, to charge up the Battery. On the IS, the engine will start when the Battery goes down to 40% charge (two bars on the meter) and the engine will stop, around four minutes later, when the Battery reaches 50% (three bars on the IS).

Do these possibilities fit with any of your scenarios? The 2007 GS450h may be a bit different from my experience with the IS300h.

4 minutes ago, Herbie said:

Your profile only shows the car as an IS, but is that an IS200, an IS300, an IS220d, an IS250C, an IS300h or what?

The accuracy and usefulness of an answer depends on which car; the IS300h for instance, doesn't even have a starter motor.

What, exactly, is happening when you try to start it? Are there any OBD codes?

She isn't asking for help on diagnosing the problem. She's asking if anyone knows of a Lexus specialist. It's a simple request and the model isn't relevant to that question!

As for only showing it's an IS, that's not quite correct; her profile says it's a 2010 model. So I'm happy to be corrected but I don't think it could be IS300h which was the first hybrid IS, launched in 2013.

Though I'm sure, if she wants to provide some more details, there are plenty of people who would be willing to suggest what might be wrong with the car.

When I went out in the car today, I thought I'd better check if I was right in what I said above. It turns out there's a bit more subtlety to the climate control than I thought.

The outside temperature was 5C when I turned on the car and presumably the same inside the car. The engine was cold and the climate control was set to Auto and 21C. I was surprised to find that air comes out of the windscreen demist vents right from the start. I didn't know that before. But of course the air was cold initially while the engine was cold. I didn't realise there was always air from the windsceen vents right from the start, not just when you select Demist.

After two minutes the air from the windscreen vent began to warm up a little but there was no air coming from other vents. Then five minutes after starting I heard a flap open and warm air began to come out of the footwell vent. But there was still no air from the face vents. Then around eight minutes after starting the engine, a trickle of warm air started to come from the face vents.

Then around 10-15 minutes after starting the engine, with the engine temperature gauge approaching normal, the fans started to speed up and more warm air came from the face vents (and the other vents, of course). This presumably speeded up the process of getting the cabin up to the set temperature.

What surprised me, though, was that after 30 minutes from starting, although the fans were slowing down a bit, the air from the face vents was still warm (though not hot). I had expected there would be cool air by now. I found that if I reduced the set temperature to 18, the face vents produced cool air instead of warm. I assume this showed that the cabin had reached 18 rather than 21. With milder weather than today, the face vents would produce cool air sooner than when the outside temperatures were fairly low like today.

There's a thread on DAB radio from a couple of years ago which might help, depending on what the problem is. Scroll down to comments six and nine.

And in case you're interested, I did a followup post last year when Times Radio started broadcasting and I tried to work out how to find it on the terribly designed Lexus DAB system.

There's Toyotec in Redhill. I don't have personal experience of them but there are a number of recommendations on the forum. Search for Toyotec in the forum search box.

Here's one of the comments but there are others.

2 hours ago, Dylanlewis2000 said:

Yes, however, when I'm cold in the car, I would expect setting it to 25, it blows out warm air? Or am I missing a concept here?

That's not quite how it works. If you have the climate control on Auto the answer depends on what the current cabin temperature is. For example, if the cabin temperature is 20 and I turn up the temperature setting from 20 to 25 I would not expect to get warm air out of the face vents because the required rise in temperature is only five degrees. I'd expect cool air to continue to blow from the face vents and warm air from the foot vents until the cabin temperature reached 25. But I wouldn't expect warm air from the face vents at all in this example.

But if the car had been standing overnight, the cabin temperature was zero and I set the cabin temperature setting to 25, I'd expect no air from the face vents until the engine had warmed a little. Then there would be luke warm air from the vents and much warmer air from the foot vents. This is for two reasons. First, the heating has to raise the cabin temperature 25 degrees so it will need to pump out quite a lot of hot air from the foot vents to achieve this. And second, the only source of cool air initially is from outside, where the zero degree temperature would provide uncomfortably cold air to the face vents. So until the cabin temperature has risen a bit, the face vents will have luke warm air that is a little more comfortable than freezing cold air from outside. When the cabin is warm enough the air from the face vents will be cooler than at first.

Paul has pointed out above that you aren't setting the temperature of the air coming out of the vents. Instead, you're setting the temperature you want the cabin to be. I had forgotten until now that before climate control was common in cars you would set the temperature of the air in a range from cold to very hot. When you started off in the car in winter, you would set maximum temperature, maximum fan speed and demist vents. As the car warmed up you would then reduce the air temperature, redirect the air to the floor vents and reduce the fan speed; and so on as the car warmed up. I'd forgotten this was normal routine!

But you may be able to emulate this by not using the Auto settings. Sorry to hear of your Raynaud's; maybe the heated steering wheel will help as well - I've never tried one. But if you want warm air from the face vents you may be able to achieve this with manual settings. What I'm not sure about is whether the temperature of the air from the face vents will still go down as the cabin warms up, even if you have the setting on High. Perhaps it won't and you'll be able to achieve what you need for comfort. Let us know how you get on after some experimentation.

If the air coming out of the vents is 34C, pretty soon the air throughout the cabin is likely to be approaching 34C.

If you've got an old-fashioned room thermometer (rather than the gun style one in the picture) you could use it to find out what the temperature is in the middle of the cabin, away from the vents. It would be interesting to know what the cabin temperature actually is after a 15-20 minute drive.

I think the design philosophy of the climate control is to make it as imperceptible as possible, whereas it sounds as if you'd like hot air coming out of the face vents, which is the opposite of what Lexus designers are trying to achieve.

It's like the difference between standing in front of a roaring log fire in a cold drafty castle compared with being in a modern air conditioned room set to keep the air at a steady 22C and whatever a comfortable humidity level is. You can certainly feel the log fire. But you don't really notice the effect of the air conditioned room. Lexus is trying to achieve the air conditioned room effect not the log fire effect.

So it would be really interesting to know what the temperature in the cabin is after a 15-20 minute drive with the climate control set to Auto, 22 or 23C, and with no other buttons pressed after pressing Auto.

I'm guessing from your experiment that the temperature will be around 22C. But there won't be any hot air coming out of the face vents. The hot air will be coming out towards your feet. Instead, there will be cool air coming out of the face vents, as DonC says above, to avoid making the driver drowsy.

14 hours ago, Dylanlewis2000 said:

The main reason I'm asking is that I have read on some of the newer cars (especially electric) the heat pump heaters are not that great in the depths of winter, in that they don't go anywhere near as hot as a conventional engine radiator would, therefore I was wondering if this was the same for the hybrid system.

Lexus/Toyota hybrid cars have a petrol engine like conventional cars, which provides the heat for the cabin via the engine coolant. Purely electric cars don't have this source of heat, so they have to provide some other means of heating the cabin. The original Volkswagen beetle had the same problem as its Porsche designed rear-mounted engine was air cooled. Can't remember how they solved the problem but I seem to recall that the heating wasn't very effective.

The key question for Dylan is what temperature the cabin reaches. Does it stick at, say, 10 degrees or does it go up to around 20?

.

1 hour ago, Dylanlewis2000 said:

Issue is the cabin is cold, the air coming out of the vents isn't particularly warm.

Well, that sounds like a fault. Just to double check, it's zero degrees outside, you start up the cold car, you use Normal mode rather than ECO, you press Auto on the climate control and select a temperature (say, 23 degrees). No other buttons are pressed after this. After a 20 minute drive, the cabin is still only, say,  10 degrees.

If I did this in the IS300h, there would initially be little air flow. But after about five minutes (or maybe longer in cold weather) the engine is warm enough to supply warm air to the cabin and the fans start to turn faster to heat the cabin. Then when the cabin is warm the fans slow down again and cool air comes from the  face vents.

If you can use the free Hybrid Assistant app, it will show you what the cabin temperature sensor is reading, along with the outside temperature, and the engine temperature.

On the other hand, a simpler test when you're driving the car is to ask yourself, "Can I take my coat off?" If the answer is "No," then your heating is not working properly.

I'm not familiar with the NX but cold cars were phased out in the 1950s, even though the first heaters were optional extras. So I doubt the absence of warmth is a new feature for the NX.

10 hours ago, Dylanlewis2000 said:

What I mean is that the temperature gauge for the engine gets up to temperature (middle of the gauge) fairly quickly.

So is the problem that the cabin is cold? Or is the cabin temperature ok but you'd prefer to have warm air coming from the face vents?

What happens when you turn on the windscreen demister after the engine has warmed up - do you get warm air onto the windscreen?

15 hours ago, Herbie said:

In more than 40 years of driving it's never crossed my mind to do this, so for me I'd say yes, just a coincidence

If it's not intentional, I can't think of any reason why the headlights would turn on at midday on a cloudless bright sunny day. What might make this happen?

8 hours ago, Dylanlewis2000 said:

My daily commute is only 15-20 minutes, but in that time, the car does get up to temperature quickly

Just to be clear, did you mean to write "the car does get up to temperature quickly" or did you mean the car is slow to get up to temperature?

If the cabin has reached the set temperature you probably won't get warm air from the face vents. On the IS300h it will gently blow warm air from the face vents initially while the car is warming up. But it pretty soon switches to cool air as soon as the cabin has warmed up.