First_Lexus

I seem to remember that David Cameron, as leader of the opposition back in 2008/9, mooted a scheme of insurance and registration for cyclists but it was quietly dropped and never made it into the 2010 election manifesto. What we need to remember is that such schemes for any type of ‘registration’ are costly and administration intensive - it’s why the Dog Licence was dropped. We also need to consider that there are a very large number of people who cycle - likely into the millions - and there is an increasingly powerful cycling lobby. Any Government or potential Government suggesting such a plan would risk a big backlash and loss of votes, and that alone means it probably isn’t feasible or desirable actually at a time when we should be encouraging lower carbon solutions for local travel. Insurance is a bit different, and I think that could be implemented relatively cheaply and simply, as the obligation would be on the cyclist rather than the State. Personally I would have thought cyclists would welcome that as protection for them, and I’d like to know whether there are already schemes in place (a quick Bing search indicates there are but I can’t establish whether it is cover for damage or loss of the actual bicycle rather than cover for accidents while riding the bicycle). I do think, as has been said before, we’re dealing with the minority here - both drivers and cyclists. My general feeling is that, apart from the odd frustrating encounter, things aren’t too bad. The problem is partly that the media and social media users on both sides of the argument (and many other arguments these days) are inflamed in pursuit of views, witness Jeremy Vine’s cycling rants and ‘Cycling Mikey.’

@FredD Based on my recent experience, use CarWow (or similar) and look to trade in and buy outside of London and the Home Counties. I queried why Lexus Reading were so low with their part-ex valuation on my 2021 RX and they (very honestly and very foolishly) told me that prices in and around London were depressed because of insurance and resale difficulties… …that led me further afield where prices were not thus affected and Reading lost their sale to Swindon who gave £1500 more in part-ex (and a much larger discount on the new Toyota too). As I noted on another thread, for reasons I don’t fully understand, part-ex valuations for me were much better in July than they were in May when I started looking, perhaps because of the security plates and promise of better resolutions to come? Or perhaps just the second hand market, or something else…but shop around, be willing to travel and good luck!

I see JC also parroted the usual, lazy, journalist nonsense about the eCVT gearbox… Having just driven a dozen cars from all sorts of manufacturers I can confirm that the eCVT is preferable to any of the dual clutch / DSG options as it isn’t hesitant and provides far smoother progress. Meanwhile, I always lusted after a Renault 5 Monaco…😇 The only thing in the review about which I’d agree with him is the 1.5 engine - which personally I found quite surprisingly noisy and a bit harsh (aware other reviews, especially What Car? don’t agree!) and of course the price. North of £40k for a top model is cynical I’m afraid when a similarly specified Volvo XC40 is £38k before (large) discounts…

Or perhaps they have to throw the kitchen sink at the Lexus interior in order to justify the prices! My RX450h in 2021 was about £55k list. The comparable new RX has had (in my view) a ridiculous price hike. UX vs CH-R? With discounts included, I’ve been able to order a top (ish) spec CH-R Excel with all the bells and whistles for £34k. That’s where the UX range starts, and I was only able to get about £1k off the UX (despite known Canbus vulnerability) and to drive it felt like a much older car, which of course it is. To get a comparable spec UX I was over £40k which is crackers. Similar with the LBX, where a Takumi FWD just creeps below the £40k without options. Where the CH-R really shows it’s a Toyota rather than a Lexus is in the rear cabin, where some of the plastics used look and feel cheap. But in the front? I think it’s the equal of the UX, but not the LBX. The new UX based on the latest CH-R (I assume) will be interesting. If Lexus follow the RX price increase model then I think they’re being cynical. The What Car? review gets it pretty much spot on, saying; “The C-HR feels reasonably plush inside by small SUV standards. There's plenty of soft-touch plastic, along with suede-effect lining on the insides of the doors of GR Sport, Excel and Premiere Edition models. In the main, the C-HR's interior feels well screwed together, although there are a few wobbly bits, including some plastic trim on the inside of the doors (and it’s a shame the rear doors are covered in very cheap-feeling plastic). If you want to experience the plushest interior in the class with the best build quality, we'd point you in the direction of the Lexus LBX. In the PHEV world, the C-HR’s interior compares very well with competitors', although the MX-30 R-EV is even classier.“ All of that said, and as I’ve said elsewhere, having looked at a dozen different cars over the past month or so, from all sorts of brands, I think Lexus still make the nicest interiors - they’re just not imho as good as they used to be.

It does go to show how different people perceive differently. Having had two NX and now an RX4 I was really impressed with the quality of the CH-R interior. As noted, it is not as good as the LBX but I found it superior to the UX which I’ve had as courtesy cars many times and have never been impressed. Then again, when I sat in the new NX350h at launch I felt the interior quality was a downgrade on the previous NX300h and there was a chasm between it and the RX! But that’s the thing about ‘perceived quality’ - everybody views these things differently and looks for different things / are impressed or unimpressed by different things. LBX vs Yaris Cross is no comparison on the interior front - agree about the hard plastics - but then again is the LBX worth almost £10k more? Like you, I find the LBX ‘optimistically’ priced, especially at the moment with hardly any discounts on offer. Having recently test driven Skoda, VW, Seat and Audi models the differences between interior quality on all of them are minimal. Yes, the Audi A3 has the poshest plastics, but the difference wouldn’t put me off the Skoda Scala for the price saving. What surprised me most about the A3/Golf/Scala/Leon comparison was how differently they all drive with the same platform/engine/gearbox. No doubt in my mind that the Golf was the best by some distance.

I would have thought any cyclist who also drives should be covered by their normal driving licence and experience combined with a sense of self-preservation… When I was young - 1970s - those children at school who wanted to used to complete a ‘Cycling Proficiency Test’ from memory, dealing with the basics. I assume that’s long since been consigned to the dustbin of history? Let’s all be honest - the big issue over the past 20-30 years is an increase in traffic combined with a large increase in the numbers of people wanting to cycle. Everybody is in more of a rush, lots of people are far less forgiving / looking to be militant…car vs cyclist friction seems to me to be reflective of the decline of society more generally! There’s a thesis for somebody…😂

One final note on this thread, for interest - how the various dealers from whom I didn’t buy a car reacted. I won’t name brands but there have been some distinct differences. I contacted all of them by email with my decision with thanks for their time and brief rationale for my choice. Most simply replied thanking me for letting them know, wishing me well with the CH-R and hoping they can sell me a car in the future. Fair enough. One asked for a telephone call - which I obliged. He wasn’t trying to change my mind (he never mentioned that at all) but genuinely wanted to understand the drive vs the price/deal against that he had offered - essentially the deciding factors and whether he had done anything ‘wrong’ or could have done anything better apart from a cheaper price. One Sales Manager called me to ask specifics about his salesman and how he had performed. Have to be honest, that felt like there was another agenda, but was happy to report salesman had been very thorough, polite and helpful. Finally - I guess there had to be one - sent an email expressing ‘surprise’ that I could have chosen a Toyota over ‘…a premium product at about the same price.’ Ouch 😂

I have to say my previous NX300h and then my current RX450h have the highest quality interiors of any car I’ve ever owned, perhaps with the exception of (stop laughing at the back!) a 1979 Vanden Plan 1500 compete with genuine walnut, Wilton carpets and sumptuous leather. The rest of it was as dreadful as the Allegro on which it was based, but that interior was proper old fashioned craftsmanship. Anyway, I’m of the opinion that the deterioration in quality is more of a case of things levelling out. Previously a Toyota / Datsun / Ford / Vauxhall would have had cheap interiors and poor finish at the bargain end of the range (think Chevette) with far better and plusher finishes at the top end (think Senator). That’s as it should be really - you get what you pay for. What I’ve seen in my car search, across brands and types (and positions in ranges) is that quality and finish is now pretty much the same across the piece. Add to that ‘sustainability’ - most manufacturers now boast (BOAST!) about synthetic leather, recycled tyres and bottles being used in plastics and seat trims etc. Manufacturers are also more ‘savvy’ about what matters to customers. Tech, and extras such as panoramic sunroofs and safety kit now seem to be more important than ‘quality’ as so many cars are sold on 3-4 year lease or PCP agreements. Even the VW Golf, once a paragon for quality now has plush plastics in the front, with far cheaper finishes in the rear (as does the Toyota CH-R I’ve ordered). I do think Lexus quality is still exceptional, it’s just not as exceptional as once it was and the gap between it and ‘mass market’ cars has diminished. Cheaper brands have improved, while more expensive brands have declined imho and they’re now nowhere near as far apart as they once were. Based on my recent, and thorough, search Lexus are still the best. BMW, Mercedes and VAG disappointing but still good (just not as good as you’d expect) while Mazda and Toyota were better than I expected. Volvo were as close to Lexus as anybody as were Audi, both very impressive and ‘premium.’

Interesting topic as, after three Lexus in a row, I’m downsizing into a Toyota CH-R in Oct/Nov. I was surprised at how good Toyota interiors are now - lots of soft touch plastics everywhere, interesting designs, good tech. Comparing the LBX interior with the CH-R, the LBX has far higher perceived quality…but, it is based on the Yaris Cross, whereas I’m led to believe the CH-R is on the Prius/Corolla platform. It has a larger 1.8 engine vs 1.5 three cylinder in the LBX too, and felt to me like a car from a size above. However, despite all that the LBX is more expensive model for model, and significantly more expensive on a PCP. The Lexus experience for me has been premium in every sense, and it’s fair to say the Toyota showroom/sales experience hasn’t been as good. It has been perfectly acceptable though, and for the price savings I’ve been happy to switch. Only time will tell if that’s been the right decision…

Having done both, albeit LBX a couple of months ago… - LBX has a nicer interior, no doubt about that - CH-R is more keenly priced (including finance rates and discounts) - CH-R is slightly larger and feels like a bigger car on the road (but there’s not much in it imho) - LBX is noisier based on my experience, and felt less refined which is surprising for a Lexus, but then again it is half a class below the CH-R - Rear space is tight in both, CH-R felt darker but actually seemed to have more legroom based on my driving position - Subjectively the CH-R is better looking. It certainly has more bells and whistles model for model. What Car? compared both and chose the LBX as superior. I came to a different conclusion. I think it’s very close, and different people will come to different conclusions based on their own preferences and perceptions. The only thing I would say is that after 2xNX300h and 1xRX450h I really wanted to stay with Lexus, but the LBX just didn’t excite or convince me as I thought it would…it just felt a bit…cynical perhaps, especially the pricing. The LBX is based on the Yaris Cross, whereas the CH-R is (I believe) based on the Prius/Corolla platform…and you can tell imho. I think this is a case of ‘you pay your money, you make your choice.’ Should add, on a 42 month PCP the LBX Takumi FWD was £100pm - yes you read that right - more than the CH-R Excel FWD. That’s a huge margin and just doesn’t feel justifiable to me.

I’ve noticed a worrying trend in Reading of (mainly) youngsters on electric scooters acting as if they’re immortal. They weave in and out of traffic on major and minor roads, onto pavements…hardly ever wearing helmets either. They’re lethal and virtually impossible to predict, and it’s fair to say most of those I’ve seen don’t respect the ‘rules of the road’ (or show any sense of self-preservation!)

The deed is done, order placed and deposit paid. The CH-R should arrive (factory order, built in Belgium as it happens) in late October/early November. Fair to say the Toyota sales experience in both dealerships visited was good, albeit not as ‘premium’ as with Lexus…😂 While I was in the dealership ordering the car, an older gentleman arrived complaining that his new RAV4 passenger wheel arch liner had come adrift…erm…😳 The service receptionist was very good, told him they’d have a look but if it had been damaged it wouldn’t be covered by warranty. He clearly had no idea that this could have been a theft target (it may not of course) but I’m pretty sure Toyota went straight to that conclusion. One last point for anybody changing car. I’ve used CarWow before, and this time it has saved me a lot of money. Reading assured me (and they were good to deal with) that their deal was absolutely the best I’d get anywhere. CarWow and a dealer only thirty miles away beat their quote by nearly £2.5k with both a higher offer for my RX (£1500 more) and a bigger discount on the new car (£1000 more). It definitely still pays to shop around…

Right, decision made. It’s the CH-R Excel in silver/black with the optional JBL sound system. In the end I just liked it more than the other options and the deal - via CarWow with a non-local dealer - is too good to miss. Combine the highest offer for my RX with an (almost) £3k discount and I’m very happy. I’ll have to travel an hour to collect in Oct/Nov when the car arrives but worth it for the saving. Job done. And at least I stay within the Toyota ‘family.’ Turns out that in the end familiarity, reliability and an eCVT gearbox means a lot to me. And it’s a funky looking machine…mid-life crisis activate! Yes, I’ll miss the 3.5litre V6. Yes, I’ll miss the RX interior. But as a compromise, this feels like the smallest one I could make.

The CH-R is a really nice car, I preferred the drive to the Volvo (eCVT vs slightly hesitant dual clutch). The Toyota is a proper hybrid, the Volvo a ‘mild’ hybrid so never runs on electricity alone. List prices are pretty much identical, but the CH-R Excel has more bells and whistles than the XC40 Plus. Head says Toyota, but the Volvo interior is much more ‘premium.’ I’ve decided to sleep on it. Toyota comes out slightly cheaper on the deal too, but not by enough to swing the decision, it’s that close. VW discounted. Nice car but I prefer the Toyota and Volvo, despite the VW being MUCH cheaper overall - I think the other two options are worth the extra.

That engine was discontinued. The B3 petrol is now a 2ltr 4 cylinder unit.

I’ve tried to like the LBX, I really have. Having owned three Lexus in a row, Lexus have tried too…but ‘scientifically’ compared with the other options I just don’t like it as much and think it’s overpriced for what it is. Sorry, but that’s all there is to it.

I agree, and it’ll have the benefit of familiarity and the longest warranty…but the deal has to be right and (obviously) I have to like driving it (which I’m sure I will!) Will update later once I’ve had the test drive and made a decision…

Have to say it was brilliant to drive - the 1.5eTSi engine 150PS. It’s the only car driven that actually put a smile on my face, it was that much fun. Like a go-cart but quiet and comfy too. I was surprised but glad I did test it, it is certainly a contender.

I know on many levels an EV would make sense, but for me this car will be only for three years and at that stage I’ll assess. My disability means I may not be able to drive at all at that point (or I may be able to continue, or may have to use hand controls etc.). When dealers who are being pressured to sell stock EVs are saying they think it’s risky and essentially advising against, I have to take notice! That said, over the next three years sales and residuals may pick up and I’ll rue not buying a super cheap one when I had the chance…that’d be typical for me 😂 @Malc1 I already have one twenty year old car in the garage, I just want my ‘everyday’ car to be new, simple and on a PCP so I can hand it back at the end if needed.

Facelift model just launched, dealer said Volvo pre-registered loads of the old model and used them as ‘staff’ cars for 3-5k miles then put them through the dealer network (Volvo own all the cars now rather than dealers). With discount the brand new XC40 is only £33k…rather than £38k list, and my view is that the used ones therefore don’t offer enough of a saving.

I checked insurance first given the RX ‘issues.’ The Volvo is quoted by all the big providers, with very low excess, at c£350 for the year including motor legal etc. the Golf is c£275, and the CH-R most expensive at c£450. The RX was £660 for equivalent cover this year. Servicing for the Volvo is covered by a plan for the first three services at £999. The dealer seems pretty good - my Sister bought an XC60 last year and has been very happy with them. VW…what to say. I’ve had three over the years. Two were terrible, one was ok. That’s my reliability concern and note the Golf came second bottom in the What Car reliability survey. That said, my mileage will be very low so I may be willing to take the chance (but may not!). The deal is VERY tempting! Should have said, I’ll be deliberately staying under the £40k threshold for the ‘luxury car’ tax this time, so it’s the B3 XC40 rather than the B4 (as I prefer a B3 Plus model to a B4 Core).

Over the past three months I’ve been looking at, and driving, replacement options for my 2021 RX. That’s partly because of the theft issue but mainly because, as I approach retirement, my priorities have changed. I’ve loved owning the RX, and the NX before it. They’ve been fantastic cars, and I know anything I now buy will be something of a compromise - but it’s a compromise I’m ready to make. Due to health issues, which will not now improve, I’m only driving 2-3k miles a year. Longer journeys have to be completed either with others driving or by train if I’m on my own. My priority in terms of a car has thus changed significantly, and I want a smaller car for local use. The RX is simply too big and costs too much to insure and tax to justify. First, some good news for RX owners. Trade in offers for my 13k mile 2021 Luxury with tech and safety packs have improved markedly over the Summer. Where I was being offered £31k in May, I’m now being offered £33-34k. I don’t know the reasons for that, but it is encouraging. That means my car has lost about £20k in depreciation over three years. I’ve looked at all sorts of options, from many manufacturers. I haven’t limited myself to a vehicle type, and have looked at SUV and hatchbacks. I’ve looked at different sizes too, in order to understand how much I’m willing to compromise against what is sensible and good value. First, the also rans. Skoda Kamiq and Scala are very well reviewed, but relatively expensive and not great to drive. The MINI Countryman is fantastic, but far too expensive imho with no deals available. BMW options were fine, but I just don’t like the interiors (again I seem at odds with the reviews!). KIA and Hyundai left me cold, and again were relatively expensive. Honda HR-V is very good but not exceptional and a bit noisy, Jazz CrossStar similar. Finally, Lexus…the LBX is a nice thing, but I consider it overpriced and have dismissed. Never been keen on the UX, and that hasn’t changed. French cars aren’t for me having owned a couple before, so Peugeot/Renault not considered, neither were Vauxhall or Ford (although I did look online for prices/offers). Now the surprises. The VW Golf is a fantastic drive - hard to believe it’s the same under the skin as the Skoda and SEAT options. The deals are very keen too. It’s a surprise contender, apart from reliability concerns putting me off. Next, the Mazda CX-30. Lovely thing, great interior and good to drive but unfortunately the deal on offer isn’t great. The Suzuki Vitara is fantastic value and nicely made, but not available to order at the moment which is a real shame. The Volvo XC40 wasn’t a surprise, as I knew I’d like it. It’s a great thing and the deals are amazing. The interior is the closest to Lexus quality (close, but not as good!) and it is nimble and really good to drive as a mild hybrid. Today, I’m driving the new Toyota CH-R which is the final option before a decision. I’ve discounted the Yaris Cross now as slightly too small based on the Jazz and Kamiq experiences. So, by the end of today I’ll have decided. It’s either the Volvo, the Golf or the CH-R. It’s been my most thorough car search ever and has been fascinating. I’ve seen disinterest, I’ve seen great service and enthusiasm and everything in between. I’ve had great offers, and dreadful ones which were a total waste of time. I’ve seen immaculately prepared demonstrator cars and filthy battered ones (why, just WHY would you do that?). I’ve had dealers accompany me on test drives and others throw me the keys and tell me to have the car as long as I want as long as back by the end of the day. Like I said, really interesting. One last thing - EVs. You’d think considering my low mileage and use now that an EV would make perfect sense. Deals on them are - frankly - ridiculous. 0% finance, huge discounts…they’re almost begging you to buy them. But, and it’s a big but…more than one dealer has noted that residual values are unpredictable, and that as a private buyer I’m probably better to stick with petrol. At the same time they’re putting the suggestion under my nose they’re pretty much steering me away from it! I imagine they’re all under orders to try, but also don’t want miffed customers in three years with no value left in their cars. And before anybody asks, personal lease on an EV is too expensive, likely because they’ve built predicted depreciation into the numbers. If it were a company purchase I’d have one, but for now I’ll stick with what I know. I’ll be sad to leave Lexus, but the time is right. For me, right now and as I approach retirement, the Lexus options are just too expensive for what I need and want.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/which-cars-are-stolen-most-often-in-london/ Worth a read, clearly an epidemic affecting a lot of marques as well as Lexus, albeit given the lower numbers (I assume) of Lexus out there the proportionate risk of theft must be higher?

Off-topic but related…my home buildings and contents insurance renewal arrived this week, and it had increased THREE FOLD! I’ve been with LV for years without a single claim and nothing has changed year over year. Assuming a mistake I called them, to be told that ‘risk levels’ determined prices, and that ‘…insurance prices are reflective of those risks.’ They wouldn’t budge, and a quick comparison search got it back down to (almost) where it was through Nationwide. Even so, who do these companies think they’re kidding? At least D i c k Turpin wore a mask!

I’ve generally been impressed with the KIA models I’ve seen, and Volvo as well albeit interior quality on both is short of Lexus imho (but not by much). One word of warning though. I was at dinner in London with some colleagues a few days ago. The subject turned to cars. None of them were aware of the Lexus CANBUS issue (no real reason they should be) but my, admittedly non-technical, description prompted one of those present to wonder if a neighbour’s Kia EV6 had a similar vulnerability. His neighbour (based in South London) had a brand new EV6 delivered on a low loader from a lease company. Two days later it was taken, from the driveway, overnight. Now, I suppose that could have been a key issue, or some ‘insider’ dealing either at the lease company or the transport company. But what it does show is that lots of marques have security issues, not just Lexus.