GSLV6

I've no real issue with EVs in principle but at the minute, improving or not, they are no more sustainable than any other form of propulsion and batteries end up as highly toxic waste. The cars are heavier, don't handle as well due to the weight. The answer has to be in a sustainable fuel source and people have yet to develop the mindset that electricity is not the primary fuel source, but the final power source for the transmission. Efficiency has to be called into question as there remain losses between primary fuel source and final drive, so no, I don't see it as "green" at all, quite the reverse in fact. Trouble is, we (and other countries) have had successive governments backing the wrong horse, diesel, for several decades, and putting no real research into less polluting and more sustainable methods. Honda, I believe, did a lot of research into hydrogen fuel cells a few years back and even developed a car that ran purely on hydrogen fuel cells powering the motors. I believe that Clarkson even tested such a vehicle. Little has been heard since, as the rush for diesels took the wind out of many car makers' sails. I never bought the diesel argument and we're now full circle back to petrol engines being the lesser of two evils. We'll see what the future holds, but Lexus, I do believe, have developed one of the only really honest hybrid systems, even if the compromises of significant mass, poorer handling and increased manufacturing costs are ever present. They have to be admired for trying.

What about a non-hybrid GS300? You still get decent performance, exceptional economy for a 3 litre petrol a full auto box and one of the sweetest drives this side of an S-Class. No complex hybrid tech and lighter weight = pretty respectable handling and 0-60 in 7.1 seconds. Same car inside and out as the one you looked at but with the bonus of much more boot space. Cheaper to buy too!

+1 to the above. I think you'll be lucky to buy any vehicle, let alone a Lexus, which is over 10 years old and get an extended warranty on it unless you pay through the teeth for it. By the time you add up the £500 or more annually it would likely cost, you could just put that sum aside in a savings account and fund any work yourself. Buy the right car, and it should stay reliable. Your chances of this with a Lexus are arguably better than with any other marque. The only other cars that seem to be bomb-proof are the older Merc diesels. I would happily run my GS another 5 years without any warranty and it'll be 10 years old in the New Year. It's never let me down yet. Ask owners of original LS400's how many break downs they get and you'll struggle to find many. Of course it's the non-break-down stuff, like a leaking shock or exhaust system or a failed sensor which doesn't affect the car running, that can cost money, but to buy newer, you pay for it anyway in up front capital worth, so cars really are swings and roundabouts. Better to buy a really well sorted 10 year old Lexus with all the usual jobs (like exhaust and shockers) taken care of, and chances are, you'll be driving it for many years to come without major expense.

I have a set of Lexus roof bars going spare if you would like them at say half price? You'd have to cover courier costs but they're available if I can dig them out. Alternatively, you can collect (15 miles South of Gloucester).

I don't necessarily agree. I think that until a more sustainable technology such as hydrogen fuel cells are available, there will always be customers, like myself, who will never buy a plug-in EV. If the whole country did it, it'd come as no surprise if there wasn't sufficient generating power, or spinning reserve to cope at our power stations, and CO2 emissions would be no different since gas is used at many power stations. You burn something to get the energy, so it makes more sense until we have to stop burning something, to develop practical hybrids. Had the whole country been fed from nuclear power, then I can see EVs being a more sustainable solution, but for now, it's all kidology and people feeling good about themselves, when the truth is, they still use fossil fuels and still contribute to global C02 emissions. Also, petrol hybrids are far less polluting than diesels. The other thing is that 200 miles is hardly a practical proposition. What if you want to drive 500 miles? You'd need an overnight stop. It would also put paid to our European trips due to timescales and end up coasting more for hotel stays etc. It's just not practical for now. I'm happy to invest in hybrid technology. I can't see any viable real world alternative bettering it with some honest environmental considerations thrown in, for another 10 years until this country's sorted out the growing mess that it has got into regarding electricity generation security. Why add to that problem?

If the manufacturers don't sort it out, people will just stop buying their cars.

I think we'll see a new hybrid coming within the next three to five years. They can't continue to push the damned lie about their 450's being good for an average of 45mpg when the truth is closer to 30. The argument to me was "well' it's comparable with the other competition for large SUVs" and they might have had a point unless you looked at smaller diesel engined ones or the new Jaguar F-Pace. (Their 3 litre diesel is mighty impressive). That's no argument for publishing totally misleading claims though. In the luxury car steaks, the new E350 is a lot more popular than the new GS. All that is sort of irrelevant though since the largest market for the RX is the 'States, where 30mpg is good mileage! They're all at it though, not just Lexus. I'd put money on an improved hybrid coming in the next five years, possibly with more battery storage for longer duration which is the only way they'll really get to grips with the mpg figures. That all adds weight though, so it's a bit on an en-passe at the minute with their current technology. If they do come out with one in the next year or two, there''ll be a lot of disgruntled customers here who've just shelled out for the new RX at over £60K a pop.

It is marketing Jason, as you say but with their reputation, one thing admired about Lexus is that they never had to bow to the alter of ultra modernity or fashion to sell vehicles. Most Lexus buyers valued them as much for their under-stated elegance as their reliability and engineering, so the modern aggressive spindle design one can argue is out of keeping with that image but is a mark of corporatism trying to sell more cars. I don't see them as different. Jag have their wide-jawed new look, Ford have stolen the Aston front end, Volvo have got sharper but remain understated, Beemers likewise, and Merc continually facelift their models and now are shaping up a similar corporate look, as with the others. Some see it as progress, but it's not. It's fashion, designed to attract a wider demographic, which is entirely different to progress. Unfortunately, they have managed to be striking but have almost entirely lost their elegance in the process. Look at the lines of the lovely LS460/600 and the Mk3 GS300/430/450H. The latter especially with its fast-back styling and unique front end to me is a triumph of understated elegance and a lovely side and rear profile of the car. It draws attention without even trying, it doesn't have to shout "look at all my aggressive lines and deep angular grille!". One man's meat and all that... What has in fact happened is that they've progressed their range to include a starter range, a family sized saloon, a school run mini SUV, an exec market saloon, a luxury limo and of course the jack of all RX crossover/SUT. They are trying to capture more of the market, hence need to steal a march on areas which frankly mattered less to them in the past given the relatively wealthy post '40 something demographic of 10 years and more ago. I guess to do this, the appeal must also stretch to those appreciating the more aggressive styling, but to me, it has cheapened the looks of the cars without adding anything. It simply becomes another mould which needs to evolve to stay fresh rather than a timeless classic as the older ones could be viewed. They now dont look any more exclusive to me than any other mainstream car. Shame really. It's all subjective though and just my own personal opinion.

Thanks John. I do like our GS and I do agree with you that the new Spindle-grilled GS/LS I don't regard as "proper" Lexus cars. The styling's gone from elegant to aggressive, to tempt the younger execs out of their Audis and beemers. New ones are sold with the promise of being better. I'm not so sure. It depends on your definition of better I suppose. Having driven both, I'm pretty convinced that the Mk3 Lexus GS cars were amongst the most elegant Lexus vehicles ever produced and probably the best specified as standard at the price, ditto MK2 & 3 LS cars Certainly, the newer ones don't make you feel quite so special when you first encounter them. I was left pretty un-moved by my experiences with the one we drove. The MK3 RX is ok but I won't be buying it for its looks!

Here's a link to the pouch that I ordered for my Lexus keys: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005NZB5CE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 That buys a mixed pack. Use one for the spare set and keep it safe. Keep your keys when not in use, in the other. Here's a recent review of steering wheel locks if that helps too: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/95031/steering-wheel-locks-2016-group-test There's a few knocking around for wheel locks. That little lot fitted would deter most thieves I suspect and your keys would be safe from electronic theft.

Am I right in assuming that the tech used to steal keyless entry vehicles relies on mimicking the exact coding of the master key, then amplifying that signal and transmitting it to a receiver which contains a fake transmitter which can then remotely open the vehicle and start the ignition? If this is the case, then surely it affects ALL lexus models and not just the RX. The RX seems to be singled out as its a popular urban tractor for the well to do, and has a big overseas market, possibly where they all end up after being "ringed". If this is the case, then the solution is simple isn't it? Make it as difficult to get the signal and add layers of additional security. Keep you keys in an anti-static ESD shielded bag (Faraday cage)...don't use the canvas wrap wallets for phones as they may not seal well enough. The bags cost a few quid. Add a steering lock (physical barrier 1). Buy a wheel clamp and fit that...it takes a few seconds of time in the evening. Install one of those folding barrier posts at the end of your drive which can be padlocked in the evening if you keep it on the drive way. Being an owner in the past of a lot of exotic and highly desirable motorbikes (not any longer as I've sold them all now), most were easier to pinch than any car. I simply used ground anchors and added physical deterant even when locked in the garage. Thieves may be getting smarter, but being smart, they wont bother to nick something that can't be taken within 2 or 3 minutes as the risks are too great. Make them work for it. A really good steering lock is what, £100 or less? Faraday bag = £6 odd. Barrier post = £40. That's not a lot of money for peace of mind and probably far better than a tracker which, as mentioned, wont prevent determined thieves from having a go. A thief, with the right gear, will take a minute to disable a good lock on a barrier post, they wont run over it for risk of being jammed on the thing or causing damage. It takes another minute to bypass the very best steering locks (check out which reports). There's two minutes gone, even if they manage to break into the car. The Faraday bag prevents any reception of the correct coded signal, to their tech is made redundant unless they keep you under observation and make sure the radio signal thief is close to you when you open the car. Keep your eyes peeled. Don't go out an unlock the car if you see anyone loitering. There's no guarantees as determined thieves will steal anything, but the steps above mean at least you are forewarned and forearmed.

Thank you for the welcome John. I'll be 50 next month, so guess that just qualifies me as old enough not to be in the Audi/BMW camp any longer (I've never found the urge to own an Audi). I'm not a car snob though and have never owned anything newer than 5 years old. The GS has been a real eye opener to Lexus cars for us. I almost went for a V70 instead but had so many issues with previous Volvos, gave it a miss when I saw how well finished and refined the GS was in comparison. I traded in our 9 year old C220 estate (great car but just started giving trouble at 120K miles such as PDF and EGR issues plus water leaking into rear storage wells where immobiliser circuitry lives!) for the GS. Whilst it has not been overly reliable, with annoying but expensive issues needing to be sorted (I wont gloss over them for Lexus), I do recognise that it is generally well screwed together and a great engine and transmission. I only wish that the RX shared the same gear train as, honestly, I do not like CVT gearboxes but they seem to be here to stay with Lexus. The RX certainly makes a lot of sense to us. We're just a little concerned at having to invest so much into a car, as being self employed and not on a particularly high wage, it's cash which has to come from savings. It's a gamble. If the car lasts 10 years and is trouble free in that time plus holds reasonable residual value, then the gamble will be worth it. It would make more sense for us to run the GS for another 5 years but we will need something like an estate we can put bikes into the back of, carry stuff for my work etc) and that's not possible with the GS which limits us a bit. I'd rather have an SUV than an estate so the ride comfort, height, visibility etc. I have a badly injured back too (mountain biking took its toll!) so really firm rides are out. The RX just ticks a lot of boxes at the minute. Rather than buy a high miles example and have the hassles we've had with other high miles cars, we've decided to go with a one or two year old car this time round, so fingers crossed we're doing the right thing!

Thanks guys to you all for your feedback and comments. Thanks especially to Carl for your very honest and helpful insights...much appreciated that you took the time and effort to provide that. The salesman told me it was a selection for turning on or off the adaptive suspension? I would do but we could really do with an estate right now, and I don't want to go down the diesel route which most seem to be (otherwise the Mercedes E350 ticks a lot of boxes); the rest of the petrols being these little flower pot 3 cylinder things or other tiny things revving their heads off...such little engines were described to me by one local mechanics "disposable" creations of the EU war on emissions but many have proved unreliable and not capable of long term durability nor have enough power to pull the skin off a rice pudding. We've ruled out larger petrol engines from other manufacturers and I just don't think anyone makes as good a lump in a largish petrol engine as Lexus anyway. Had the GS been a hatch-back with more boot space, we'd have gone for one in a flash. As it stands, it seems a rather pointless to change our GS which is more practical, for the newer one, for only marginal mpg gains at relatively huge expense. That's why we're looking at the RX. I'm more concerned with safe handling than sports car handling. I have a modified vRS hot hatch for fun (and boy is it fun!); I also have a KTM bike for fun. The roads aren't what they were a few decades back so comfort, practicality and reliability matter far more now to me than say 10 or 20 years ago. The RX will do everything we need and more. It has more than ample load-space for my interests and activities as well as my business, so I can see it as being a very versatile motor. The sticking point is cost and model generation. The 2016 model I'm told by Lexus is completely new from the chassis up, larger, more practical, better equipped, although it uses the same (effectively) engine and is over £60K new meaning that a 3 to 4 year old really low miles example would be beyond our means if we waited another 4 or 5 years for the price to come down by £20K to £25K. That leave the Mk3 2012-2015 of which there are quite a few low miles examples for under £30K. It's still a hell of a lot of money, but looking at the opposition, they're either more expensive (Jag F-pace and Porsche Cayenne for example), not as reliable (landy...anything), not as well specified or diesel only and we don't want a diesel or their PDF issues or their pollution contribution. We've really done our homework and all that seems to be left is the Mitsubishi Outlander 4x4 PHEV or the Lexus RX. The Mitsu' isn't as economical as claimed (are any of them?) and it's simply cheating to mingle the electric battery charged from your home with outright petrol consumption (claims) as on a charge, it may do 60 odd miles, but you still pay for that energy! Lexus has a true honesty in the hybrid technology, performs better, is better made and whilst more expensive, is also a proven and reliable design. We're going down the RX route also because the 2016 car surveys list it as one of the very top SUVs to own for reliability and owner satisfaction. I think it ranked well within the top ten cars outright, along with the IS and GS models. That speaks volumes to me. The RX it is. We just have to be patient and wait for the right one to come available at the right price, so until then we'll not exactly be slumming it with our GS!

I took a test drive today in a two year old F-Sport. The route was about 10 miles, a mix of urban and rural roads, varying between 30/40/50mph limits taking in a fair few bends, bumps and town traffic as well as some restricted A-roads. It was a bit of an eye opener for a few reasons, but not for the reasons you (or I) might have thought: Ride: I was expecting a much firmer ride with less roll than the Luxury model. I tried the AFS settings set to both "On" and "Off" and quite honestly, couldn't tell any difference at all between them. The ride wasn't at all harsh, if anything, it felt more compliant than the luxury model which thumped a little more over the bumpy surfaces and really could do with a little fine tuning. Tick. What surprised me was on the whole, it didn't feel much different at all in the handling stakes. Perhaps a little more responsive, but the differences between the F-Sport and the Luxury set up do seem subtle rather than marked. The cornering confidence wasn't a heck of a lot better....just subtly better. That came as a bit of a surprise. Overall, I preferred the ride and handling of the F-Sport, however closely run, although when doing the wheel-wiggle test, it still pitched a bit and you knew that there was over 2 tonnes of vehicle there. Handling: As mentioned, not bad, with a little more feel and a little more control than the standard model (note the word "little") but with slightly improved ride. Worth having? Possibly, yes, but not a deal breaker. The vehicle still pitches if you change direction rapidly although it never gets dangerous, the initial motion is there before it all gets controlled again. Not unexpected in a large SUV. I probably notice it more than most RX owners would because it's a new driving experience to me having come from a car with more sure-footed road manners. Braking: For such a large vehicle, the brakes are good. What was weird though was the electronic jiggery-pokery going on under the bonnet. When slowing in traffic, the brake feel seemed to very between one manoeuvre to another, requiring more or less effort on the pedal, for pretty much the same scenario (slowing for the lights from 30 or 40mph). It never felt that consistent. The Luxury model felt the same in this respect. It's as if the energy recovery system and computers don't always react in a very predictable way in terms of brake feel when intervening with the braking system. Something that you have to get used to I suppose, but it wasn't that marked; I noticed it where perhaps others might not give it a second thought. Comfort: As with the Luxury model, excellent. Cabin noise on this one was, if anything, a little less, and that was, I suspect, down to tyres that were a lot newer. Acceptable and not too intrusive but still not as whisper quiet as the GS and the few times I did floor the pedal, the engine and drive-train noise was very apparent. Performance: This time, I made sure to switch it to sport mode and whilst better than the Lux in Eco mode (which we'd left it in) it still didn't feel quick...more "adequate". There's a reasonable 40-70 acceleration but without the punch in the chest that the older GS gives you, which almost pins you to the back of the seat in kick-down mode. It picked up well enough and the turn of speed was more deceptive than "sports-quick". Economy: The test vehicle had a mpg meter set after the last re-fill, and in similar test drive conditions had averaged about 28mpg, which is about 1 or 2mpg more than I would have managed in similar conditions from the GS300. I get an urban average of 25 to 26mpg in mine, and a combined average closer to 29mpg with extra-urban of about 35mpg. I don't really think that the RX will do much better...perhaps a few mpg more but I wouldn't expect any more than that. On the whole, the older GS drives better, handles better, performs better but is a little more costly to run, but I do like the RX which ticks more boxes than not. None of the models have the "wow" factor for us as a driving experience, either for the interiors, levels of kit or drive. However, they are a very practical family proposition, very versatile, very comfortable and very well screwed together and those things alone would probably win us over, so we'll be changing the GS in due course. We have shortlisted two models, the F-Sport or the (Luxury) Advance, and will be looking for one fitted with a few options such as the premium Mark Levinson system which we already have and rate as a worthwhile option. Nice to haves will be LED lights and HUD (I know std on F-sport). It would also be good to have the roof-bars and rear boot savers too, so we're going to hold out for a late low mileage example. It's a huge investment for us and not an easy decision. Our nine year old GS remains to us anyway, the better driving car and probably the more comfortable one of the two due to the levels of kit and ride quality. Thank you to all those who have contributed to this thread, especially to Rayaans for your helpful observations.

Spot on Rayaans. I've been given a really very good P/X offer on the GS because it has a full dealer history, and on what they offered, it was worth at least £1000 to £1500 more than I would have got without it. My independent wasn't much cheaper for the major service at all so I stuck with the Lexus service plan. I was unaware of the puncture repair offer (could have used that!). For us, it's worth the 35 minute drive each way. I was also unaware that if you supply your own tyres, with a service plan, they'll fit them for £50 all round. My local charges £25 per wheel including tyre disposal & vat. I have no plans to alter our service regime with Lexus.

Seems cheap enough for what it is but worth checking the percentage Carnauba as many only use between 1 and 5%. Personally, I like Meguiars Tech-Wax as a finishing wax. The finish lasts for ages. For pro-finishing kit and a wide range of polishes and waxes, I find this business very good and the chap that runs it very helpful with his advice: http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/complete-detailing-kits/cat_22.html I bought a DAS6-Pro polisher from him and can't recommend it or the Menzerna range of polishing compounds highly enough.

I was unaware of that....I'll walk in and wave my membership details at them then Yes, there's a lot of sense there but I don't have a warranty plan, just a service plan. Looking at the warranty, we decided it wasn't worth it and it would have cost as much as the repairs did over the same time period. The servicing is a little more costly but I'm happier that it delivers. Our local garage would have charged us £900 for the same work as Lexus did for under £1100 (I asked). I thought that for the sake of an extra £200 it was worth keeping an unbroken Lexus FSH.. What is possible in theory with an independent and what some actually can sort are often two separate things. In my case, Lexus had the issues that the local couldn't resolve sorted in an afternoon, job done. The car was in for a service anyway, so it was an added hour's labour all in or something similar. For our intended newer Lexus, I may just use the local independent because the car will only be a year or two old and probably more than reliable enough not to fret about a warranty. The battery pack warranty may be worth considering a few years down the line, but according to Lexus "they don't go wrong sir", so on the one hand all these warranties are pushed quite hard, yet on the other hand claimed reliability is impeccable. You pays your money and makes your choice.

That's the problem Jason. For run of the mill servicing, my local garage is very good and has been entrusted with all of our previous cars. However, he was unable to resolve several problems with the Lexus requiring hardware (and software) available only to Lexus dealerships, including re-flashing the ECU, sorting the TPMS, sorting a boot closer which failed (software issue) plus he's just put his rates up to around £60/hr labour. Lexus are more expensive but get to the nub of things quickly and I always leave Lexus with the car fully valeted too. Yes, the service plan isn't cheap but I look on it as a way to maintain the highest residual value and always have confidence in their work. I'm an engineer myself, and having met and spoken with their head mechanic, he is a chap who's standards of work seem top drawer as is his knowledge. That, and the customer care standards, are worth the additional outlay for me.

Yes, it could well have been hence my comments. It doesn't take much, especially on a heavier vehicle to highlight the importance of decent suspension!

I rode in an older one (passenger)and it was like being in a sailing boat around the bends and fairly thumpy over the bumps. By the standards of the car I had at the time, it was appalling, truly it was. Only speaking as I found it and I have no idea what condition the suspension might have been in, or the tyres for that matter but I wasn't impressed. I just think the newer ones have improved a reasonable amount.

Ok, thanks for the confirmation Dennis. I got a local specialist to quote for both services. It wasn't far off Lexus 3 year plan over the same period, hence going with Lexus, and they did a little more than an oil and filter change. Mine wasn't new, it was already 8 years old when I took out the plan so the large service, including filters, was done last time round. I paid extra only to have a leaking shock absorber changed, but yes, servicing prices can be found much cheaper if you shop around. I used to do all mechanics and servicing myself for many years and still do for the bike (I don't trust a lot of the local bike dealers to do a good job) but life's too short and I'd rather pay for the car these days.

I'm interested in this myself as my wife and I are also looking for an RX. We have already driven a few models and I agree with Rayaans. The post 2012 Luxury is a very nice car indeed and unless you especially want more of a drivers car (which isn't what these are all about) the pick of the range does seem to be the post 2012 Luxury or Advance. I am still waiting for a test drive of the F-sport but have already discounted the premier due to additional unnecessary complexity and risk of huge bills should one go wrong. No marque is 100% reliable despite the claims and knowing our luck, we'd be the ones with a bill for a compressor or suspension replacement....no thanks. It also carries more weight I think (would I be right in thinking the Premier is about 100Kg heavier?). Rayaans has also mentioned the leather. We have a similar spec leather in our GS as the Premier and it does require more care. Properly treated though (which involves cleaning with a leather care product for moisturising the leather about 3 or 4 times annually) its no big deal. I preferred the seats in the Luxury spec personally speaking. I have come to the conclusion with the RX that keeping it as simple as possible but well specified as possible = either F-sport, Luxury or Advance. As I already have the Mark Levinson system in my current GS, I wouldn't want a lesser system in the replacement, so would look for a model fitted with that. Ride and handling on post 2012 models seems much improved from the ship-like (frankly appalling) ride in the older model. Everything just seems that bit stiffer and more controlled. It'll never rival the GS for poise on the road though. It's too heavy and high for that. Take that into account and the three models mentioned seem to be where the best value is and for peace of mind! I would be interested if the F-sport sacrifices ride quality, so am waiting for a test drive as sport models often make the ride harsher. If it pulls off good compliance on the bumps with improved control, it'll seem a no-brainer.

Understood, thanks Rayaan. So if I pay £59 annually, that covers hybrid system and battery. In that case, it's well worth the outlay and my apologies to lexus for the mix-up. I have their 3 year service plan on my GS at the moment and would probably go down the same route if I change vehicles, as their service and customer care has been exemplary.

That offer is a bit naughty in the wording really....all to draw people in. The phrasing is (deliberately) misleading. They seem to have it all the time, not just as a "one off". I was offered it two years ago....then again last year....and again this year, hence there doesn't seem to be an "...at the moment" about it.

That's a hell of a cost! I suspect the prices quoted to me were monthly then and not annual I can't see that its worth it until the car gets to a certain age.