GSLV6

I had this problem with my GS and eventually had to replace all four TPMS valves. Even disconnecting the sensor wouldn't turn off the dash warning lamps. I was told that certain after market tpms sensors can't be programmed properly and that only genuine Lexus sensors coded to each corner work. If a wheel was inadvertently swapped after the sensors were initially set, as say with a tyre change, this will also create the problem according to a Lexus mechanic. Didn't even know that there were different sensors for summer/winter use or at least different set values.

I won't be doing anything in haste Rayaan. Our experience with Mercedes (we've owned two of those) has been largely positive, but it does depend very much on which model you buy. Some of their larger petrol models suffered from chocolate cam chain cogs in the past, requiring massive bills at relatively small mileages. Early Bluemotions had injector issues, later E Class had suspension issues....as with all cars, they have issues. However, the newer E Class has lifted them back up the JD Power survey for reliability and "Which" also rate them highly as do owners. Cut it whatever way you like, but they're really very good motor cars and better than most. The GS on the other hand, I have first hand experience with and after my experience over the past two years with one, will never buy another, especially after reading so many horror stories on here about various reliability issues such as shock absorbers being under-specified and prematurely failing etc on much newer models. Clearly Lexus haven't learned the lessons of the past in some cases, or more cynically haven't done anything about them. That really decided the matter for me after joining this forum. You can only speak as you find. Both our Mercs were pretty bomb proof and probably the cheapest cars in terms of whole life running costs that we've ever owned. The C class estate was very well built and nothing really went wrong. The engine was a complete peach, that 2.1 diesel lump being so over engineered and reliable it ranks as one of the best diesels ever built. It was better finished than the GS, the wheel lacquer wasn't obtained from the local joke shop and it looked as fresh as the day we bought it, many years later when we sold it. Being the AMG sport version (a revelation at the time when released in terms of the suspension and brakes) that it handled like a sports car, it certainly bettered our BMW 3 series of the same vintage at the time. I remember a policeman saying that he preferred that model to the Range Rovers they also had as in his own words "you can run into any corner a bit faster than you perhaps should of done, and in the Merc, you know you'll come out pointing the right way and that's why we like them" (speaking of the Aventgarde Sport (AMG tuned suspension) model). I don't believe that any car, irrespective of what it is, doesn't have issues. Nothing is perfect. What matters is how a manufacturer responds to those issues when they become widely known, signifying that a problem exists that ought to be dealt with properly. Lexus have failed to do this with the GS suspension up until this year at any rate. They failed to address the wheel lacquer issue for years, and still refuse to admit that the lacquer was improperly chosen for the salt laden British winters. Earlier 450's were no better, and my own 300 ....well I have the receipts for the work done sat right here. Never again. I wouldn't touch a GS F-Sport. Way too impractical, silly small boot space and the one I drove I didn't find that comfortable as the seats were too firm as was the suspension. If I wanted a true sporty drive, I'd buy another car like a similarly priced used Porsche. Lexus aren't sports cars despite the tags, and I've owned sports cars which are not all about straight line speed but the package as a whole. Lexus are too heavy and the handling cannot match the "sports" label. The LFA was an exception and a damned good one. I consider the GS more a car to appeal to 40 something execs who want something peppy to drive on their daily commutes, not a practical family proposition, which is where the RX comes in. With my spinal and hip injuries and resulting daily pain, I now need something more comfortable than a sports car anyway. You're right about Merc dealerships (and BMW come to that). I gave up on ours and had it serviced at a local independent who looked after us well. We've been using him for 10 years. He deals with our Skoda presently. I'd rather pass the trade to him than a faceless organisation making twice the profits. However, a car as complex as the RX may force us to remain with the Lexus dealership but they have been very good with us so far. As I said, I won't be buying in haste. The RX appeals and I have my 3rd test drive next week, this time of a model that I requested was delivered to our local dealership for us to look at. I'll be doing a little more research first and also checking out a really superb E Class estate going for similar money. Only when we've completed our research and looked at both will we make our minds up. I do appreciate your input Rayaans though as clearly you and other contributors have feedback based on experience which we value. People might think this all OTT and just "buy the thing already" but there remains over 30 thousand good reasons why I won't be doing that in a hurry.

HI Ja, no not yet. Truth is, we've put it on hold because of membership of this forum. It's a lot of money at over £30K and the more we read, the more unresolved reliability and running cost issues Lexus seem to have. We're reconsidering a low miles used E-Class and are weighing up the pros and cons of each model still. Having posted over on the GS side of the forum, you'll appreciate where we're coming from given the issues that we've suffered with Lexus, so I won't be handing over £30K until such time as I'm sure it's the smart move. It's simply too large an investment. Having test driven other vehicles, the RX doesn't handle, go, stop or drive as well as an E Class, costs more, has less kit as standard, and less load space. I found the RX more comfortable though and prefer the higher driving position. Forums are interesting places to spend some time around as you'll pick up many years of feedback from people with no axes to grind and get honesty, not becoming of dealerships. The decision so far has been GS450H = "forget it!" and RX450H = "definite maybe". I want to be sure that the paintwork issues, some of the rust issues, suspension and engine issues that I've experienced with the GS will NOT be repeated on the RX. I want to do some more reading first. We also considered the new F-Pace but load space is pitiful by comparison, the drive is noisier and fit and finish not as good. The RX ticks a lot of boxes and I am test driving one particular 2 year old RX next week that I am interesting in buying, but am also still considering an E Class. The test drives plus owner's club feedback, plus the views of my local independent garage mechanic are all things which will heavily sway my decision.

It's not just the 450H though, and this is the point. I know several people who have had or still have a Lexus. The ones that don't still own one will never go back to one because of the pricing of parts and unreliability of the models they've owned. I don't believe many who run any car for high mileages and claim total trouble free motoring for over 10 or 15 years. Things wear out or go wrong, that's life. With Lexus though, they have a reputation to guard yet are in total denial about known issues, especially with the GS450H but also some of the older cars. Mine is a GS300 SE of 2007 vintage. It has been the most expensive and most unreliable vehicle that I have ever owned, despite being relatively low mileage when bought. It has cost me over half the initial purchase cost in bills on just 2 years of ownership for things that "never go wrong" from failing shock absorbers, to failing sensors, failing xenons, failing exhausts (£850), failing hydraulic tappets (£ that's £3200 for a top end rebuild sir), bubbling paint on the bonnet (£775 for a front end respray), flaking lacquer on the wheels (£340 for a refurb all round plus another £400 for tpms valves). I questioned my sanity at even considering a newer RX but put my experiences with the GS to one side after doing research on ownership issues. It seems to be a more reliable proposition....or is it? We owned a C class diesel estate that went well round the clock, and then some, with the only real issue being failed crankshaft and camshaft sensors. Other than that, it proved to be utterly bomb proof and better screwed together than our current GS. The newer ones have not been as reliable otherwise we'd still have one. We also had an old 850 T5 Volvo estate (1997 vintage) which also covered over 140K miles with almost zero problems other than a few shock absorbers and an exhaust (we'll allow it that!). The newer ones (S60s...two of them) were far less reliable and far more costly to run so I'd never return to Volvo now. See a trend here? Lexus ought to be ashamed for some of the unresolved issues which still haunts some relatively newer models, because of the premium that they charge, the claims that they make and the lack of action to sort things out. However, car manufacturer's aren't in the business of "being ashamed". They're in the business of making profits and we have come to the conclusion that Lexus are all about huge profits on their current models, yet refuse to sort out issues which are well documented, at the expense of customers, plus STILL charge a premium for run of the mill quality parts. Arrogance of the worst sort by a marque that seems untouchable when it comes to their warranties which are sold by sales people with PTFE shoulders. Utterly disgraceful. We are now seriously questioning whether we'll bother investing in a newer model after being a member of the owner's club for a very short while, as it seems that we are not alone on the issues faced, and especially in the responses from Lexus. I am looking at an E Class instead, even though we don't really wish to return to diesel. I won't be keeping the GS, despite it now being well sorted. Whilst this seems rather like a horror story, when reading feedback from other owner's forums, a similar story emerges for just about all marques of similar cost bar one or two. Volvo, Landrover, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar....they all have expensive issues and seem less well put together than Lexus. Older Skodas are proving to be more reliable than Lexus though, and our experience with Skoda (2007 vRS Fabia) has been very positive indeed. Ours has been more reliable and cheaper to run than our Lexus, by a huge margin. In fact, the cost of repairs for our Lexus could have bought us another low miles Skoda. Toyota seem to fare better. A friend is on his second Avensis with the first covering 12 years of motoring with next to zero issues. How can Toyota from the same stable have less issues seemingly than their more prestigious stable mates? They do seem to be the more reliable and far less costly proposition. You pay a price for the premium brand, yet don't expect any greater reliability but do expect higher running costs. It's the price of ownership. One good marker is to look around at the mileages of used vehicles for sale. Mid to late Naughties model C Class Mercs are knocking around with huge mileages on them. Not so many lexus models though...The facts speak for themselves, no arguments needed. Look further up the Merc range....reliability lessens with cost and complexity. Lexus after all tend to be very complex and very costly vehicles across much of the range. Now viewed in this light and things do start to look more positive. No other marque of similar complexity and cost seem to enjoy the same reliability until you hit some fairly prestigious cars. They still better anything from Germany, owner satisfaction remains high, dealership satisfaction remains high and on the whole, many newer models seem to be well sorted. The GS though is still the fly in the ointment which is why we'll never own another one. Once bitten...We'd have to be stupid to buy another after the issues that we've faced. We are still considering the RX, but with more homework needed, won't commit over a newish Merc E Class until we've done a little more homework. Certainly, there are a fair few 100K plus mileage RXs knocking about which seem to have suffered far fewer reliability issues, even in hybrid format, than our current GS or the equivalent GS450H. However, we could buy an E class estate with under 10K miles in a high trim option and enjoy more cabin space, more load space, cheaper running costs, better handling, better kit levels as standard, better performance, better interiors and (if owner's forums are anything to go by) better reliability all for less money. It is a testament to the honesty and feedback of you guys on this forum and similar ones which make membership so valuable as this forum is the best, or the worst advert for buying Lexus, depending on the model chosen. GS? Forget it. RX? perhaps. More homework needed!

Quoted power for the 200t NX is 235 BHP and weight 2.2 tonnes. Performance looks to be close to the RX, with some tests coming in at 7.1 seconds to 60, but when the maths is done on power to weight and the extra torque of the RX 450h accounted for, it is the quicker of the two, no question, with some gps tests showing 6.5 seconds for the sprint to 60. Close on 300BHP for not a lot more weight and more torque are figures that don't lie. The 300H doesn't come anywhere close (Lexus quote 9.3 seconds), even if Lexus tend to under-egg their 0-62 times a little. How can it? It's waaaaay down on power compared with the RX450h. Comparable perhaps with the 300h but no way is the NX300h comparible with the RX450h; that's just wishful thinking.

I agree with John here. Just because it's a free market and we're not forced to buy Lexus, the sad truth is that they deliberately have a stranglehold on the availability of aftermarket parts, including shocks, for many of their vehicles. This means that effectively, you have no choice but to buy from them when something fails. I am sick and tired being told by their sales team guys that they "never go wrong sir" when they most certainly do go wrong and more frequently than they'd like it known. Whilst they are generally well designed and thought has been put into every area of construction, some parts slip through that clearly should have been redesigned or put right years ago. The sin here isn't that things go wrong, it's knowing that, Lexus fail to do anything about it. It's enough to make me think twice about buying another one simply due to the premiums involved. For a premium brand to disregard such things is the sort of arrogance which will eventually result in falling sales as people won't come back. Little things matter. I put my foot down and refused to pay their frankly ridiculous price for fitting replacement tpms valves. It wasn't the dealership's fault, it was Lexus Central. How they can justify their rip-off pricing of close on £400 for 4 valves is beyond me. The dealership kindly agreed to waiving the labour charge for fitting them as they also found it embarrassing but as a franchise, they're hands are tied when it comes to parts cost. I also managed to get a decent rate on the shock absorbers when it was argued that a failure of this magnitude at this mileage wasn't wear and tear, it was down to poorly specified shock absorbers. One I could understand. 3 out of 4 now replaced is not on, especially when there's no warranty replacement. I will be buying a newer Lexus, as all marques have their issues (I had no end of them with Volvo who were even more of a rip off for parts than Lexus), but it may be my last one if there's any repeats of these things, or if they continue to be so greedy about parts costs. We'll see.

I couldn't do without the reversing camera in the GS now tbh. One of the things that has swayed me towards the F-Sport is that it has both the HUD as standard plus lateral dampers for better body control. It would have been nice if both those things had been standard across the RX range.

The RX is specifically marketed as a vehicle that will operate in all climatic conditions, from the arctic wilderness to the desert heat. For Lexus service to simply write this problem off "as the cold weaver guv" is unprofessional to say the least. If the RX hybrid system has an Achilles heal, they should come clean about it, but it does sound more like a charging issue. It doesn't matter if it's in EV mode OR Eco mode because once charge runs below a certain amount, to prevent total battery drainage, the system, even if in EV mode should switch to ICE automatically. It sounds like a problem with the charging or storage system. It should have naff all to do with the weather. A medium or longish run, driving gently, to recharge the battery will conform this. Left overnight and without radio or seat heaters etc on, it ought to run on battery in EV mode from the get-go. If not, I'd be re-contacting the service department and not taking "No" for an answer. Hot weather is as much a drain on batteries with many old battery failures occurring in older vehicles with the additional loads presented by aircon running all the time.

I had two damper failures on my 2006 GS300, one at 60K miles and the other at 70K miles. In each case, I had to foot the (not inconsiderable) bill. That was closely followed by the exhaust splitting at the Y-junction at 73K miles . The latter I would suggest (and tried to argue) was a design fault as it is a point of high stress and had the exhaust been redesigned to lessen the stress at this point by strengthening the pipe here and better supporting it, it would not have failed. Total bill for two dampers plus the exhaust was well in excess of £1000.

I drove an F-Sport with HUD and thought that it was well worth having as in built up areas you don't have to take your eyes off the road. What I particularly liked over the HUD available in other vehicles is that Lexus use a bold green light instead of the more usual reddish-orange lasers and it stands out very well. I thought that it was standard in the F-Sport as well as the Premium from 2012 onwards as suggested by the equipment list in the sticky thread on specifications.

Thanks Rayaan I have looked at those but the price has gone up pretty significantly. I'm in no rush to change the original Dunlops unless they perform poorly in the wet but after my test drive wouldn't replace them like for like as the tyre noise, we thought was intrusive. I run my GS on Davanti tyres which have been superb. Great in the wet and nice and silent too. We have them fitted to our VRS and they are great o that too.

I wonder if anyone has experience of Avon tyres in the 235/55 R19 101v rating (Avon RX7s)? I see that the car I'm after has the standard Dunlops fitted (in this case I believe they are Dunlop sport rather than the 65 profile 270s). The Avons are cheaper, have an "A" wet weather rating and are also 69db rated. They seem good for the money if they're a compound that lasts the distance. Currently on offer for £137 fitted per corner.

it's possibly not a great idea (the fridge) for longevity of the battery, and not as good a cage as the cheap RFI blocking wallets available on Ebay or Amazon for under a tenner. If you have a house safe, that makes for a better Faraday cage than the fridge but the little wallets work really well and are far more convenient! The issue affects all remote keyless entry systems as they all work on exactly the same principles. The only reason that the 450H is singled out is that it fetches more money than earlier models and many are stolen to order by very organised gangs and shipped overseas very quickly. All the current line up using keyless entry work on the same system as I understand it so all lexus models using it are susceptible including my GS3-300.

It won't be in time for Christmas I suspect but hopefully next month. I don't have much time to sell my (minty low miles) GS300 and would rather it went private that hand it to a dealer to make another 3K on it, so will put it up cheap at £6K and see if I have any takers.

Thanks Geoff. It will be interesting now that I know that to see what I am quoted I have settled on a 2014 RX, low miles in satin silver. Hoping to do a deal shortly on it. ML comes with it but other than that it is standard F-Sport spec.

The key signal does contain the information needed unique to the vehicle to bypass the immobiliser. Cars with key starts and remote locking could still have the immobilisers bypassed by similar tech, so there's nothing new in that. The difference here is that potentially, it can be done remotely due to radio signals and the hijacking of. Whereas there was little that an owner could do previously to have a vehicle removed off their driveway and driven off by determined thieves, with keyless, providing the owner takes some responsibility and places key in an RFI screened wallet (I bought one and it works a treat), then keyless is actually more secure than before as the crooks wont be able to bypass the immobiliser. Hence why most residential car thefts are still committed by thieves breaking in and stealing car keys. Two lessons: 1) all tech is potentially flawed in security terms and that which currently isn't still ought to be considered to have the potential to be breached. That has always been the case, back through history and will not change into the foreseeable future. Steps therefore should be taken by the owners as well as the manufacturers to minimise chances of theft. 2) Our attention is drawn to this as a potential issue, and a potentially good solution is offered via RFI screened wallets or bags in which to store our precious keys. That's not exactly hard or burdensome to do, just not always convenient. It is the price of progress and has to be weighed against the potential cost of not doing so. ie, we know about the issue, so we, ourselves, have a responsibility. Insurance companies may in future insist that keys, when not in use, are securely stored. Every advance in technology comes at some cost. We just have to weigh up those costs and make our own decisions. I, for one, will not embrace internet banking (why? because whilst bank systems may be secure, don't kid yourself that home systems are, and whilst banks ensure that fraud protection is there to protect your cash, it's still a PITA if it happens!). I do, however, embrace keyless entry as it is convenient and presents no greater risks than previous remote locking keys. All sought after vehicles will be targeted with more elaborate tech than an undesirable car. The RX is a desirable car to thieves. That is worth all owners reminding themselves of every time they set off and every time they return home. It will sharpen the habits of protecting your keys.

Thanks for the tip Eamonn. I may just ask for a price for the bits in that case

I'm also a fellow "discerning audio hifi nerd" Steve....a dying breed in today's convenience market . Sadly, I can't fit my own 'speakers to the RX as each one is 10 1/2 stone and a little too large to get 'em in! I'd be more than happy with the 12 speaker system I think. The audio isn't a deal breaker in any car for me.

Crikey...£700 for plastic trims?!!!! I've just asked for a price on them from Lexus for a used RX but wont be bothering at that price. I'll have some made up instead from Ali sheet. As far as the ICE goes, I am an audio engineer by profession and design loudspeakers amongst other things. The ML system is just the sum of the parts, including design effort specific to the RX space acoustically, so best not get too drawn into brand names as its meaningless. Spec is what matters and the design and its implementation. If the Premium sound system uses the same loudspeakers as the ML one, then the differences are just down to the software (surround processing), connectivity and amplification specifications. Providing that the loudspeakers are the same (and the price difference suggests that they may be) then the Premium system is probably as well specified as the ML one. The DAB, from an audio stand point, is vastly inferior to FM in broadcast quality (dynamic range through audio compression plus very poor sampling/playback specs). FM every time. DAB is partially hamstrung by bandwidth limitations too. Why the retrograde step, I don't know unless Lexus genuinely do not employ any audio specialists, but we know that they do, so that leaves perception and convenience....marketing BS about DAB. Looks like I'll compromise on colour too, but I wont take white. I prefer black but would settle for silver. I thought that on the F-Sport, Nav package was standard along with HUD....at least I'm counting on that!

Welcome to the club Dean, and hopefully, you'll find that one of the benefits of ownership is that most Lexus dealers are a pleasure to deal with and put customer service ahead of lip service. I used to run a beemer, but the GS is better in almost every respect to the 3 series 6 pot I had. It's better on fuel, handling's not quite as sharp due to the weight but it's just as reassuring; the ride quality is light years ahead as is level of kit, fit and finish of exteriors and interiors. You'll soon get used to it and adjust your driving style to suite. When you do, you'll come to appreciate just what a mature, refined and pleasurable vehicle it is to drive and own. Don't tell everyone though....we want to keep this to ourselves!

4RX....does that = Mk4 RX? Nice car, especially specc'd up with Graphite paint and rose interior. I prefer that interior to the old saddle-tan which just looked a bit too garish.

I used to tell my wife the same thing......

Great write up Geoff. My wife and I have looked at several now, test driven a couple and have decided to make the investment. We've been looking a while and would like buy Lexus approved for peace of mind. Our local Listers dealer has only 3 in stock that tick the boxes, one just sold! The other isn't the colour I want (I would like metallic pearl White Or Celestial metallic black) and as we're buying used, we want to hold out for the Mark Levinson Option too, and preferably the design pack with front/rear sump guards and roof rails, but it narrows down choices a lot as there aren't many available. We'll hang on for a bit as I don't want to buy something only to see the open we wanted appear a week or two later!

I agree with that. I've had mine several years now, and it still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. It's such a reassuringly refined drive with plenty of performance when needed, and despite some car magazine idiots judging everything in terms of BMW M5 and the Nurburgring, I find that the GS handling is reassuring too. It's an almost perfect blend of ride and refinement that I've not encountered with any other vehicle, combined with the most comfortable seating you'll come across. That and the reliability, quality of paintwork, panel fit, interiors and kit just sets them apart from the competition. Merc come close but still, unless you're into S-Class, not close enough. BMW come nowhere near. Audi are over-hyped and not as reliable nor as cosseting inside. I'm a Lexus convert but do have my reservations about where they're going. I do think that they're losing some of that exclusivity to try and be "one of the gang"..to fit in with the rest, and that is the antithesis of what they once were, and not that long ago either.

Nice find John. That's a really interesting development. Exactly the right sort of positive development needed for an EV proposition