GSLV6

Thanks Eamonn. I'll order them and fit them myself in that case. That'll save 50% the cost of having Lexus fitting them. I'll order some roof bars too so that I can fit a bike carrier if needed.

Ahhh...in that case, even I could manage, thanks for the confirmation. I can get a new set from lexus Birmingham for half the cost of my local supplier.

Are the holes pre-drilled into the plastic arches Rayaans? Hopefully no drilling into any part of bodywork other than plastic needed...

If I may Geoff, as someone else who is also light on brakes, I remove my wheels annually, use brake cleaner on the calipers, remove the pins and cover in a light coat of copper slip. I also clean the inside face of the wheels up where they mate to the hub and smear a little more copper slide on the hubs. It's worth actually removing and cleaning the pins that hold the pads in place as well as cleaning the pin sliders for the calipers (depending on caliper design). It takes about an afternoon for me to do all 4 sides and replace everything and I've never had any brake issues whatsoever since starting this regime. I also ensure when on a quiet stretch of road that I conduct a few emergency braking manoeuvres every now and then to test brakes and ensure everything is safe and doesn't pull to one side or the other. None of this stuff costs a bean really except for time and few bits and bobs and is well worth doing.

I have to agree with you after owning all three marques. My Beemer wasn't a harsh ride though, it was very compliant. I did have the softer sprung E46 325 SE though and not one of the bone shakers with stiffened suspension. Our Merc was, and remains still, the most reliable vehicle we've ever owned but newer ones seem to be plagued by electronic issues, and glowplug failures etc. They're not a cheap car to run. Bizarrely, if one looks at justification rather than any other criteria, for a family sized reliable load lugger, on VFM and price alone, the most reliable, cheapest to run vehicle, possibly on the planet, remains as the early Naughties Ford Mondeo Estate with the Duratec petrol engine, a joint Ford/Mazda development. I know several people who've owned or still drive one of those in 2 litre trim. The 2.5 litre V6 was also a gem. The parts are ridiculously cheap and hardly anything ever goes wrong with them. Many are on the roads with well over 200K miles and still going strong. My brother owns a Mazda with the same engine, and that has covered over 200K almost trouble free miles. You can pick up good examples for a few grand at say 2002 to 2005 vintage. If I was measuring purchase by justifying cost/benefit to reliability and running costs only, i'd not hesitate and buy a Mondeo estate, sod the brand snobbery, it's a great motorcar that you can rely on, ditto the Mazda 6 of the same vintage. That all said, like many on here I suspect, I'm at a stage in my life where I see friends and relatives starting to drop with illnesses, have my own issues and have a young family, so a little bit more luxury, and a more practical oriented vehicle which is more a nice to have than a need is all the justification needed. If you like something and can afford it, life is too short to worry that you could save yourself £20K and buy a really good Mondeo estate that would do the job in hand just as well. Part of me can't get over the selfish aspect of that sentiment though, possibly as I've never spent more than £10K on any car in the past, usually a lot less.

Yes, they won't be cheap for 4 bits of plastic and a handful of screws. Looks like each rear wheel may neeed removing to gain access to fit them. May get away with turning the front wheels.

Thanks guys, appreciated. Seems no worse than for any other car. One thing I would add is mudflaps. It really gets my goat that on a prestige motor, the manufacturer couldn't be bothered adding essential things like this, instead listing them as an option. I'll have them added as part of the deal. Should help keep the car little cleaner and lower spray to motorists behind when wet.

Continuing with due diligence prior to committing to buying an RX450H (2014), one thing that really needs checking is whether some previously reported common issues with RX300/400H models and some Mk1 and Mk2 RX450H models are still being reported for post 2012 Mk3 models. I appreciate that really, the vehicles are still a bit too new to draw meaningful conclusions, so the question becomes that of what Lexus may or may not have done to improve or eradicate these issues on newer vehicles. So far, I have drawn up a list of issues that have a surprising number of occurrences judging by some of the posts on here, which include: Fuel tank saddle strap corrosion rear subframe corrosion water ingress Inverter overheating issues 12v battery failure if vehicle left unused for a few weeks premature disc wear and calipers needing replacement sub 80K miles Anything else I've missed? Just interested from the RX owner's Posse whether there's anything else to look for or bear in mind which stands out with these models, and specifically whether premature corrosion and battery/inverter issues have all now been sorted.

I'll officially be able to take a SAGA holiday in two weeks Rayaans That's more scary than the prospect of an RX! I thought that the GS was long at about 15 feet. The E class was about a foot longer! That was not a good selling point for finding car parking spaces and I'd always be worried about it getting clouted by other vehicles as we've already had some ignoramus with the driving skills of an ape leave tyre marks down the side of one of our cars in the supermarket.

Yes, sales patter is one of the things that truly puts me off dealing with car sales people because many, I swear, are trained from the same "1001 sales patter phrases" salebook! I have to say that the current chap we're dealing with is quietly efficient, polite, and to the point which I appreciate. My own view is that whilst as a nation, we seem afraid to haggle, I know how long the car I'm after has been available (quite a long time) as it's in a price range which still makes people hang off in case they can pick up a Mk4 for not a lot more in a year or two, so there's a dead mans land in between what people want to pay and what the vehicles are priced at. In my case, to get the sale I was told to forget obtaining a Mk4 in the low to mid 30K bracket within the next 3 to 5 years, which I would gladly have taken a bet on finding within budget in the next 3 years due to the rapid devaluation on these vehicles. I have a price in mind which is fair to both the dealers and myself. They'll offer me 20% under private resale value for my GS, and price it for 20% more than resale value, that's how it works, as they have to make a crust, and frankly I couldn't be had with dealing with tyre kickers, so probably will sell it via part-ex. They know what that car has cost me, and that it's as good as it gets for the year, better than most, so know they can sell it for top dollar. They know that I know this. I know that they know that I know this!! That saves some BS come bartering time as what I want part ex is top dollar and not a penny less. They also know that they'll lose years of servicing and warranty income if they don't seal a deal with me, as you say, worth way over the price reduction I want. New registrations are shortly due out with "17" plates ready to fit. That reduces forecourt value of used stock to a potential purchaser, and looking at pricing of used stock, we all know that's worth up to a grand at this price level off asking price. That's all before the little things that add up start to be discussed. There's easily 5 to 10% off ticketed prices in negotiation, despite what buyers are told, as even at 10% off, they'll make a very healthy profit. A reasonable person want's their local Lexus dealers to stay in profit as without them in business, we'd lose out so I have no problem with them making money. It is up to the buyer to negotiate just how much they're willing to spend taking all of this into consideration. I won't be paying forecourt prices and have already explained to them that it's a starter for ten as far as I'm concerned. We can play the game too, and with some of the observant comments from Carl and James above, it's clear that as long as you remain switched on and remove emotion from sales negotiations, you'll do ok and eventually get the car you want at a price that's acceptable.

I've covered it elsewhere but this is what I've had to spend out on: Complete top end engine strip down and replacement of hydraulic tappets (one at back of engine faulty and knocking as it wouldn't prime due to a blown seal so whilst engine was out and apart it made sense to replace all 24 in case it was a faulty batch). Cost £3,200 (!) but place I bought it from covered £2K of the cost. Still... Two shock absorbers which (I think) = £340 (previous owner had also replaced two of them, so all were needed by 65K miles); Bonnet started to bubble where gas strut connected. Warranty respray or replacement refused because seller had use stone chip repair to the front (ie little paint marker pen to touch up a few stone chips) so Lexus refused to replace or repair as they claim bonnet was "tampered" with). The cost of repairing, and respraying bonnet and blowing in lacquer to match for the wings was £720.00. It was a superb re-spray job and now with a little weathering in, you can't tell it from a factory fresh car; Complete Cat-back exhaust which I think was over £625 fitted (may have been more); Front brake pads = £147 Tyres = £200 Wheel refurbishment as lacquer went south as did tpms valves: £340 New TMPS valves including initial diagnostic tests by Lexus = £384 So basically, it has cost me £3,856 with and additional £2K covered by warranty, and normal servicing costs on top of that, all in a few years on top of its original £9K purchase cost to me. That's not cheap motoring nor what I expected based on Lexus reliability record. The car, now, looks mint and drives still as new with £75K miles on the clock.

Not a lot different to the Luxury model, just a bit less body roll.

Had this problem with my GS300, and that was without the battery disconnected for any maintenance. It occasionally keeps on happening too. Turning the ignition off and then switching it back on seems to cure the issue when it occurs. Never got to the bottom of it.

Hi Jeff, yes. I bought mine a few years ago and love the car...just not the bills it's landed us with! The GS we've found to be deceptively rapid, well mannered with good handling, oh so smooth and refined, compared with just about anything else we've ever owned or driven. Good economy too for a 3 litre lump. The transition isn't going to be easy as I know that I'll miss the good points of the GS including a far more comprehensive kit list as standard (including ML stereo, front 10-way adjustable heated and air conditioned seats etc etc etc). Simply a hell of a lot of car for the money. We have been unlucky with the bills though due to unexpected failures and at 60K miles too. All sorted now and good for another 10 years but we just need something a little more roomy and practical for my business and the family, hence the RX. I'll start a new thread on ownership in due course if that'd help out.

Well, after a good look at an E350 Merc Estate, I was left mightily impressed by the power and handling....it has no right to go round corners the way it does! However, must say that in spite of the glossy photos, I was left a little underwhelmed by the finish and the ride on the Sport model is just too firm for me as are the seats. It was also ridiculously long! I never thought I'd say this, but I hankered after the more relaxed and serene drive and comfort of the "more boring" RX, so decision made and I'll hopefully be the owner of a 2014 F Sport next week, fingers crossed. I will be having a final test drive Tuesday and take it from there.

Good luck with the negotiations Friso....just mention that late Jan, the new registrations essentially devalue the used cars from their pre-Christmas prices LoL! Must admit, my impressions on the post 2012 RX450h initially matched Boxbrownie's impressions. We had been driving it in ECO mode and it was insufferable, to the extent it was getting on my nerves and I don't use a lead right boot! Switching to Sport mode sharpened up the response to essentially remove the delay and to hold higher revs. There should be no inbuilt hesitation as I understand it on Sport mode. It was a clever marketing trick as pre-facelifts of 2012 and previous which had the USA market "problem" (LoL) of sharp initial take off (well, isn't that the whole point of high torque electric motors kicking in after all?) were effectively neutered in EV an ECO modes. The standard driving mode, from what I understand, simply was re-named "sport" mode and an extra mode function added via the steering wheel to "deliberately" select the "sharpened" throttle response which just seems to be the same as the standard pre-facelift one! In other words, there shouldn't be much lag if Sport Mode is selected. My understanding may not be 100% here, but that's the jist of what I was told when I asked. I had a useful day comparing a 450H with a newish E300 estate today. The Merc wasn't quite as well screwed together as I was expecting, but it was a very impressive drive. However, it just seemed too large an estate for us and I preferred the more gentle relaxed nature of the RX and dare I say it, I found the merc too firm a ride, so I'll be picking up a 2014 RX next week as decision made.

Cost is an issue so completely understand the DIY route. If you already have the sensors fitted, I don't think it costs too much to have them set up and at least you'll get the mapping updated. I was quoted £180 for a map update, so imagine it'll be something similar. In the end, I just bought a new Garmin Satnav which was cheaper and it's more user friendly ;-)

The only obvious answer that I can think of Mika is to keep the same wheel-set on all year round and just change the tyres. I had my wheels professionally powder coated to a higher standard than factory so that they'd survive intact through many winters of salt laden roads. It was that or pay for two sets of sensors and wheels, and then have to re-programme the tpms sensor when switching over which, as you're finding, can be hit and miss. It shouldn't be with genuine tpms valves fitted but as I understand it, the ones from the USA (or Germany) don't work properly and cannot be successfully reprogrammed, so it depends on where the sensors originated (ie whether they're the official ones or pattern parts).

I'd take that with a massive pinch of salt Rayaans. Can you imagine the outcry if expensive diesels on sale today were banned in 3 years time? It's not going to happen. What is far more likely is that some city centres will ban them, or at least start limiting entry on emissions. This has been tabled before but even this is unlikely as who will fund the policing and revenue infrastructures needed? Cloud-cuckoo land when the present government can't even get a grip on some more pressing agendas like extracting us from the EU. However, the writing is on the wall for diesel, as the UK government (and the EU) backed the wrong horse, and are only now admitting that diesels are more damaging to health. Smaller, diesel hybrids may continue long into the future but it would be safe I guess to assume that it will take about 10 years to start phasing out larger diesel engined vehicles and my view is that it will be done via annual tax rises promting new buyers to look at alternatives. It's already happened with petrol engines from 2007 onwards. My GS costs about £500 annually to tax, which is about a tenth of its current trade in value yet one a year older costs half that amount. The same will happen with diesels. They will simply become unattractive to buy and run unless the government does yet another U-turn on environmental grounds should emissions technology catch up and limit particulates in diesels to more acceptable limits.

This^^^ However, Merc diesels are probably as reliable as any other and don't seem prone to expensive breakages, all bar things like glow plugs seemingly made from jelly babies.

Good post John. Our Merc was a W124 and was a very strong engine although not especially frugal!

I think Dennis that reading the forums, Mercedes don't really have the edge on reliability at all. The newer models it's true, suffer from less (expensive) mechanical issues than they once did (and not so long ago) BUT they're still plagued by electrical faults and Mercedes still hasn't sorted things like Glowplug life on their diesels, with some failing as low as 10K miles on new cars. Their issue is the exact same one that hit BMW when they replaced the E46 3 series and similar vintage 5 series for the newer models about 10 years ago. The sensors, and ancillaries on all vehicles are not specified for longevity but for a life of 3 to 5 years. They could spend a little more and drastically improve reliability, but there's a balance to be struck in favour of profitability, and BMW got that spectacularly wrong in 2006/7 with their new cars as did Mercedes when they first introduced their Bluemotion motors. It took a few years for them to sort many of the issues, including prematurely failing injectors, turbos going South (in the case of Beemers) to a parts issue on the turbo swirl flap specifications amongst other issues. Rust was an issue on mid naughties Mercs only on the Brazilian built C class (best avoided at all costs) but Beemer did have rust issues across the board. My 2004 E46, despite regular cleaning and underseal protection etc, still ended up with rusty wheel arches at just 6 years old! Steel quality and preparation for paint wasn't all that it could have been. Reading Merc forums (of which I'm still a member even though we've sold ours) shows still that they have no end of problems and more than Lexus owners report on average too. Most seem to centre around the control systems, (like ECUs and sensors), glowplugs (still!) and suspension on some models. Very few reported issues are evident mechanically on their bi-turbo diesels although their 4 x 4s are probably best avoided with numerous reliability issues with the GLA/GLC and GLE models which are costly to run too. However, I do agree that the 3 litre common rail turbodiesel is one of the real gems in the Mercedes line up and always was. It is reputedly one of the most reliable diesels on the planet, the result of many years development. Lexus do enjoy a better reliability record as evidenced by all of the annual surveys conducted over the past 10 years or so. However, taken in context and not overall, the E Class is probably as reliable as anything from the Lexus camp, but I'd argue cost of ownership will be higher than the Lexus RX. Tyres are more expensive, taxation will be more expensive, insurance ditto, and servicing costs will be as much if not more. Add to that the headache of replacing the PDF filter when the time comes and wave goodbye to £1000 for that alone. Also add in to servicing costs the replacement glowplugs, usually best replaced in sets, the annual cleaning of the EGR (essential although most people disregard this important part of looking after a diesel) and it suddenly doesn't look to be the bargain it started out as. That is, until you look at strong residual values after 10 years. I'd hazard a guess that it'd be a close run thing between the 3 litre or the E250 (2.1 litre) and the RX450h for longer term reliability and there may be a PDF at a grand to think about with the Merc, but there's no £4K battery pack to worry about and batteries, lets get real here, DO have a finite cyclic life, hence any warranty will only be worth the first 10 years of ownership with the Lexus. After that you cross your fingers 'cause if a battery pack goes later on, the cost of replacement of battery plus say new shocks all round could well exceed the value of the car! Therefore, when calculating depreciation on any Lexus, I always take the cost over the first 10 years of life and write off residual value after that for the hybrid vehicles anyway. Risk averse? Perhaps. Prudent? Certainly. One thing I don't do is to believe the rubbish spoon fed to me by Lexus sales staff, some of whom seem to know less than my 6 year old son when it comes to their cars. I have a good relationship with the spanner who actually does the work on my car. He's the bloke I go to when I want to learn something about Lexus.

One thing I meant to ask you RX owners...the "Which" tested the mpg for the 2012-2015 RX450H and gave tested combined figures of 34.76 (say 35) mpg, urban 49mpg and motorway 26mpg. Is that motorway figure for real? If the extra-urban was low 40's, how is driving at sensible speeds on a motorway going to return 26 mpg? Our GS returns 38mpg at 70mph steady speed. I'd certainly expect something similar from the Atkinson cycle 3.5 V6.

Good points from David. All I can tell you is that the GS has been our least reliable car, it's suffered highest depreciation and bizarrely it's still close to the top of our list as one of the best to drive, only pipped by the Merc C220 estate which handled far better. For grin factor, the biggest slice of fun is our tweaked Fabia vRS....all 170BHP (in tweaked form) of tyre shredding, limpet gripping insanity wrapped up in something you wouldn't give a second thought to. It sees off much larger, more powerful cars with ease, and runs rings round most in the corners thanks to uprated suspension and brakes. We've spent a bit on it but it's been worth every penny, and for all that, it is the most economical vehicle we've ever owned returning a genuine 67mpg average, with a best of 84mpg. Nothing we've owned comes remotely close. Luxury? No. Well built? Errr, tank-like build but not high quality. Horses for courses as you cannot compare one with another. Yes, a new thread really as this topic doesn't really sit comfortably here in a thread on a potential buy. There is one other contender as a dark horse that we may also look at, which is the all new Volvo V90 estate. Beautiful looking, great engine, massive spec for the price. We'd be foolish not to consider it. So there we have it, the RX450H V's the E Class 250 Bluemotion V's the Volvo V90 D4 Estate. I kept that one back as I hadn't seen one up until recently, but it pretty well blew me away when I did. Interior build I think betters even Lexus. Have yet to arrange a test drive though. As per your last post Carl, we are in total agreement, yet again. I haven't totally discounted diesel, it's just it's not top of my list due to PDF issues etc plus they are still more polluting than petrols. The V90 has to be worth at least a test drive but for me, a question mark hangs over the reliability of Volvos in general. The last of the truly long lived reliable ones were the 850's imho. The RX on paper at least, still looks to be favourite but I'd kick myself for not considering the other contenders properly. There's nothing else we'd consider currently other than those mentioned.

Thanks Carl. Yes, spot on. The only difference of opinion is that the problems that I have encountered with the GS started at under 60K miles, which is no miles at all for a modern motor vehicle, yet my C Class went to over twice that without a hiccup. The other thing we have to be careful of, forum reports to one side for the moment, is to watch what we take from vehicle surveys. If you read the Which Survey for 2016, then read the Auto Express Survey, then the JD Power Survey, you get very different results for each based on the same year!. The JD has Skoda first place overall for the fewest faults reported across the range (problems per 100 vehicles) and has the Merc E Class ranked first for the large/luxury car segment. Go to the Auto express survey and Lexus take the 5 top spots with Merc ranked a fair bit lower down. Which rates Lexus quite highly but also rates Merc E class quite highly. So what are we to believe? Well, some information is taken from owner's own feedback irrespective of mileage or ownership period, so voting can be skewed if say an owner votes having only owned a car for a week, and that result ends up as part of the 2016 survey. You have to scratch beneath the surface to see how these surveys are conducted then take what you want from them. I like the Which Reports, and JD doesn't appear to cover all marques which leads me to be suspicious about their agendas and motivation (ie is money involved here?). Auto express and Which also have similar agreements on vehicles such as Lexus, Toyota and Subaru. That lends some peer review-type consensus which aids confidence. Taken on that alone, the RX does well in reliability scores and I have no reason to doubt that an RX would be anything other than pretty reliable at a few years old. Close scrutiny is still demanded though when discussing such large sums of money, as due diligence is something to be ignored at one's peril. I am risk averse by nature having learned from experience and having more than a smattering of mechanical and engineering know how. For me, it boils down to what a manufacturer is willing to demonstrate to win their share of my savings. Have they responded well and appropriately to customer concerns, have they learned lessons and applied solutions and above all, have they demonstrated care in customer service and standards? If the answer to any of those questions is "no!" year in year out then they will not have a penny of my money. Modern cars, as you say, are really no more reliable than cars of a decade ago, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that vehicles made between 2000 and 2007 remain as some of the most reliable of all time, since when increased emissions legislation has led to ever more complex controls as a fix to aging (yet reliable) designs. Smaller engines for most modern makes are shorter lived (our Indy says that many a 3 cyl petrol is scrap at 80K miles) and the industry is one of consumerism chasing repeat sales for the latest and greatest, at vast expense of carbon footprint for encouraging everyone to change cars so often. This is a frankly ridiculous juxtaposition of the green credentials insisted on by EU legislation yet they turn a blind eye to whole life reliability and longevity as it suits their member state car makers profits (= job security). I see through that absurd position now, so am looking for a vehicle that I can buy at a few years old and run into the ground. I have no wish to keep changing vehicles. For me, this means a larger capacity lazy and relatively efficient engine, not a diesel (particulates and strangulation with bolt on PDFs plus incumbent reliability issues this now brings) so the RX seems to tick lost of boxes. The E class still appeals but I suspect that it will be hard for me to get my head around the modern diesel longer term issues and the issue of particulates. I won't stop me looking though as the boxes have to be checked. That hopefully sets out my thinking a little more detail.