GSLV6

Just doing a little more reading. Am I right in understanding that the CanBus theft issue and therefore targeting by thieves is restricted to RX4's built between 2015 and 2021? That being the case, are 2022 models immune and if so, are insurance premiums therefore unaffected by 2022 models?

Yes, perhaps. I'll bide my time but they've already indicated they're not going to do much bar offer blanking plates which can be defeated....child's play to a professional thief. It's not beyond the wit of man to re-route the cables with a few minor harness tweaks but that would be more costly than doing next to nothing and hoping that the problem will go away. It seems as vehicles become ever more complex, they're becoming ironically easier to steal, less reliable (generally), more disposable and not as long lived as many over-engineered more simple mid noughties cars. There's few so called prestige cars I'd want to own even if I could afford them. I had thought Lexus were dependable, my RX3 certainly has been, but given the current state of things it's not worth the financial risk to look at a newer model. I wonder if many buyers of the RX4 had wished they'd kept their RX3's now?

I will not be considering an RX4 now. I will keep our low miles RX3 and look to change to something like an XC60 or similar. Lexus have lost a long standing customer due to the way they have handled this and I refuse to accept hiked insurance premiums for something which boils down to negligent design. It's a great shame as the car itself is superb and there's nothing else quite like it for quality, comfort and refinement but good faith in the brand has all but been lost over this debacle. It is going to cost Lexus dear as I suspect many hundreds of UK Lexus owners will be doing likewise. For info, I managed to get fully comp for £260 in my RX3 this January so guess I was lucky. Lexus Insurance wanted not far short of £700.

May be worth considering unless theft statistics or insurance on those proves an equally tiresome read, but really I have no interest in any electric vehicle that would leave me stranded if I couldn't get to a working charging point on a long trip and definitely won't be investing on one which doesn't have at least a 300 mile range. That day will come perhaps but as I don't have a charging point at home and neighbours with electric cars all have horror stories when undertaking long trips then clearly they're not worth the outlay just yet. A slanted personal opnion perhaps but one I won't be shaken from whilst these issues remain. As an engineer, the "facts" about how clean electric is are less facts, more faery stories. There's definitely pros and cons, but I have yet to be pursuaded.

I've come late to this discussion but glad I found it, as I was about to commit to replacing my 10 yr old RX F-Sport with a post 2019 model. I won't be bothering to now. I'll keep and run what I have into the ground or part ex for something a little cheaper to insure. I'm shocked at how little Lexus have done to rectify a problem that they knew was a potential for theft at the design stage, never mind production stage. A simple fix to prevent easy access to canbus wiring systems, or a software protocol which was split such that ignition and security systems were separated from other operational systems and made inaccessible and use software preventing attack are all things clearly envisionable at a design stage. I was wondering why my insurance quote doubled this year with Premier insurance and got little truck with Lexus insurance who wanted £675 fully comp for a 10 year old RX. I ended up getting a sensible quote from another company and changing insurers. Whilst admittedly, I don't live in a high car crime area, it seems no-one is immune to blanket post-code insurance price hikes all because newer models have canbus vulnerabilities. This whole thread has been a depressing read and I'm now very unlikely to proceed with any Lexus vehicle as a result, but if not Lexus, then what? BMW and Mercedes and Audi are disposable unreliable heaps of crap after 4 or 5 years. Been there, got the teeshirt. The reason I discovered Lexus was That I got fed up with our merc breaking down every other lamp post when yet another sensor failed. Toyota use the same platforms as Lexus so that now (for me) rules them out. Honda are only offering anaemic 1.5 litre disposable engines across much of their model range. We have the last of the truly great (realiable) and long lived Honda motors in our 1.8 e-VVTI civic so will hang on to that until the bitter end. Jaguar, or Land rover? Nope. Just about everyone I know with one also owns huge garage bills. What, then, are ex Lexus owners turning towards? I'd be genuinely interested in hearing some of your stories and experiences, if like me, you've decided to go in a different direction? Volvo? Genesis? Kia???

I think it had the updates you describe but the cost of a new model is more than I can justify, another reason for looking at an RX4, pre touch screen model....or was until I read about security vulnerabilities...

Thanks all. I'm guessing insurance is costlier on the RX4 due to the canbus vulnerability to attack by would be thieves? Has this really raised insurance that much on all year RX4 models or is there a particular year when changes to the vehicle security addressed this issue (I've read the latest Lexus statement above in the sub forum and am unsure whether now it's wise to consider changing from what I have).

I had this on my 2014 RX. It affects more cars fitted with roof rails than not, a clue perhaps to the cause? Mine was diagnostic checked after I tried all the usual fixes, including Herbie's fix. I got it working for a few days and it packed up for good. In the end, the roof lining had to come off and the problem was discovered. Moisture seeps through, it seems, from the roof rail fixings (where fitted) and eventually builds up in the power control board, shorting it out. If only a little builds up, the tailgate will often start working again for a while but left in this state with moisture getting through, it will eventually fail. It's a design or manufacturing defect as far as i'm aware and ought really to be fixed under warranty. I had mine done after warranty when presenting Lexus with a reasoned argument so had to pay nothing to have the motor board replaced. Apparently the motor has burned out too although the odd thing is that it worked intermittently prior to replacement. That. too was replaced under warranty.

Thanks for the feedback John. I didn't even know acoustic feedback was fitted! 3.7 miles per KWhr is more like it and makes for what, a 250 mile range? My mix of M/way and A & B rioads showed 3.1 to 3.2 miles/KWhr (3.1 this morning dropping into the high 2's). Tyre life I would expect to be less, and less still on a demonstrator. Whilst I only tried the acceleration on a slip road, I guess many will find it addictive and treat a demo car differently to if it were there own so perhaps use a heavier right boot. Glad you like it. There's a lot to like about it. I guess I'm too long in the teeth to want such an app based touchscreen type of experience so for me, the RX wins out overall but it was a surprisingly close run thing as I hugely enjoyed the RZ and if I were in the market for a luxury electric vehicle, that might well be what I'd end up with.

After thinking on it, I've decided to replace my superb RX3 (still feels like new to drive and not far looking like it either!). I'm in for major spinal surgery later in the year and wanted something slightly more compliant on the suspension as I feel every bump with my back being as it is. I looked at various models, discounted most other makes after driving or looking at what was on offer and narrowed it down to a newer Rav4 hybrid or an RX4 or RZ. Long story short, it seems that whilst we simply don't need the room, there's nothing that floats my boat as much as the RX. It just does so much right. I'm now in the market for an RX4 F Sport Takumi and the best compliment I can give it, is they've taken all the best bits from the RX3 F Sport and made them better whilst doing away with the worst bits. I'm opting for the last of the 3.5 V6 models. My RX3 has been the best car I've ever owned. Reliable, comfortable, adequate performance and road holding, practical and just a lovely thing to drive. Bodywork has stood the test of time and a wash and spruce up see's it good enough to be back on a showroom floor, even the alloys look new. If the RX4 proves to be anything as reliable but builds on the comfort and longevity, it may be the last car I ever need. Briefly seduced by an LC500 but my wife simply talked sense to me, being the more practical person she is! Looks like another ten years with Lexus looms for me. If anyone is on the market for a top spec Fsport RX3 with silly low miles, PM me. I will be adding photos etc and putting it in the for sale section when I get half a chance...

Long time since I posted on here, due to moves/illnesses in my family, but I thought I'd share my thoughts on the RZ which I was fortunate enough to have for the day yesterday, after leaving mine off for it's 100K service (despite having only covered 45 miles) returning it today, courtesy of Lister's Lexus, Cheltenham. I was thinking of changing our ten year old RX3 and wanted to see of the RZ floated our boat. I'm not a big all electric vehicle fan but decided to take one out with an open mind. Had my RX3 from a few years old, so just under 8 years now and whilst it's not been without the odd issue, by and large, it's been excellent and electrical glitches aside, dependable. Our RX is an F-Sport with most of the options boxes ticked, so ML sound system, roof bars, LEDs, HUD etc etc. The RZ borrowed was a top spec Takumi model. I'll keep it brief, ignore things that don't really matter and just get into the knub of things. First thing: It's not physically quite as large or spacious as the RX, the boot in particular is quite modest and it's sleeker, no doubt for bettering the drag coefficient to help range. This in mind, they've also omitted a rear wiper (a bit no-no for me) as it added too much to drag apparently (Can't see it had to as the RX's cleverly hide them under the rear spoiler, but there we do). I quite liked the looks, in fact I prefer the RZ over the new bulbous RX which I'm not a fan of on looks. Interior is very pleasant. Seats are comfortable, supportive (better than the RX3 imho but not quite as supportive as the RX4 F Sport Takumi) and have adequate adjustment. Rear pillion space is ok too, but looked a little more cramped than the RX4 I also looked at. Fit and finish is all top notch as I'd have expected. I'll get onto controls and things a little later. Drive: I wasn't really sure what to expect but found the drive in busy town work was exceptional. Silent, cosseted, smooth and the suspension better tuned than the RX3 F-Sport. On A roads, it handled well enough but push it a little too hard and the weight becomes obvious in the bends. The steering was slightly too under weighted and direct for my likes too with very little feedback from the road. It's not a car I'd want to push on twisty roads, as it suits a smoother more gentle approach to keep things from getting out of hand especially given the lack of feedback. I wasn't sure what to make of performance, having never driven one and published figures I guessed were pessimistic as with most Lexus performance specs. I simply was not expecting it to be as fast. Acceleration in sport mode is simply phenomenal! It would easily show a clean pair of heals to many mid sized motorbikes, never mind ICE sports cars, in a straight line at least. It isn't just quick it's genuinely fast, by any standard, on acceleration and this would make for effortless, if eyebrow raising overtakes. You definitely need to chose the time and place, and watch the speed to avoid racking up points. On the motorway, the feeling of a luxurious ride continued, with very little tyre or wind noise. They've absolutely nailed the aerodynamics on this model. However (there was bound to be at least one), I did find that the high pitch of the motors became monotonous at motorway speeds and could see this becoming yawn inducing, like listening to one of those white noise audio files which are designed to help induce sleep. I was watching the range keenly, and noted that as I left the showroom, air con off, and in standard mode, it read 193 miles of range on close to 100% battery. By the time I'd covered 27 miles, that was down to 163 miles, but as some of those were motorway miles driven at 70, I expected a little less than normal bimbling. The info told me it was averaging about 3.2 miles per KWhr so range left was probably about right. A few miles had to be put up later on taking my son to cricket and back, then returning to Lexus this morning via the same route taken yesterday. This time the chilly 7am start meant I had to use the rear window de-mister for a fair few miles and had the heating up a little, as well as the radio on. I was shocked at what a difference this made to range. Navigating pre-rush hour traffic saw a busy motorway trip followed by a not too bad urban crawl back by which time the range indicated I think 127 miles left. It seems for the average driver with heater used, A/C on, radio on and lights was well as rear screen demist, the more realistic range before range anxiety would set in is an honest 150 miles, well short of the 270 odd advertised. To get that, you'd have to be doing a steady 55mph, on flat uncongested roads without anything switched on other than the motor working at a guess, so my prejudices were founded. Overall, I was very impressed indeed with the RZ but could I see it replacing the RX? No, not a chance. Until the UK has way more working charging points it would become a headache. For commuting work, it's simply too expensive an option when you could have an ES, NX plug in hybrid or similar for less and for utility, the Rav 4 Hybrid is a better option imho. Whist I'm on dislikes, a major one for me is the electronic ICE system including controls. I found the controls unintuitive, difficult to figure out until I'd had an hour or two with it, and even then simply couldn't get on with a touch screen for some options, and steering wheel controls for most of the others. I got really fed up with all the bing bong warnings and interruption of the navigation screen (once I'd figured out how to access it) for messages about my phone not being connected and when rear passengers were taken, the message "check rear seats" comes up after switching off (apparently due to an american lady leaving a child in the rear whilst doing hr shopping and then trying to sue lexus when the child overheated!). There was too much nannying going on behind the wheel with too much superfluous information, a bewildering array of options within controls and over reliance on a touch screen, which if that ever went down would render the use of the car very difficult. Likes: ride quality was superb, quiet and comfortable. Performance was blistering when demanded. Dislikes: High pitch sleep inducing motor noise at motorway speeds, infotainment system, controls, bells and other bing bong warnings, constant messages popping up on screen, tyre life very limited. This one has 6K miles from new and was looking like tyre replacements were shortly due due to the weight and torque on tap. Taking into account, tyre life and frequency of recharges, I doubt whether overall, it would be much more economical an ownership prospect than the RX. Range really not that impressive in real world driving scenarios. It would make for a comfortable and luxurious option for a chelsea tractor, or commuting from the sticks to town providing you had a charger at home. Whilst there, I also took a look at a Takumi spec F-Sport RX4 a few years old, the last of the 3.5 V6 models. It was roomier, to my mind a little more comfortable and supportive with far more sensible controls not as reliant as the giant tablet screen on the RZ. It was also roomier and had more compliant adaptive suspension over my RX3's standard set up. I have put myself on a list to exchange mine for a 2020 to 2022 F-Sport Takumi as a result. For anyone interested I am now looking for a new owner for my excellent RX3, still within the ten year warranty, fdsh from new and absolutely anything needed has been done including the big service. Underneath it's clean as a whistle as I've lanoguard treated it and has a good 200K miles left in it.

Electrical of some kind, either a pump or motor. Doesn't sound like the fuel pump which leaves hybrid system, perhaps electric steering motor (although why it should run like that I'm not sure) or brake actuator pump motor as above. Low oil level would concern me but doubt that's the cause. Mine never seems to use oil but I check to ensure it's always above half way up between markers (it usually registers full between services).

I never run mine down much past 10 to 15 litres in the tank but on average in the hilly Cotswolds only ever see 375 miles before I top up so if I drove on until the warning light perhaps I could squeeze 420 miles to 430 miles from a tank max. I'm not heavy on the right boot, advanced driver trained and mine averages over a long run on A roads around 35mpg, if predominantly motorway and at a true 70mph (77 indicated) I get no better than 32mpg. Local trips of up to 15 or 20 miles sees closer to 27 to 28mpg, about the same as my old V6 GS300, although that was way better on long runs. I once came back with a full car from a family holiday in the lake district and with a roof box fitted and still returned 43mpg.

I agree with both of you. Compared with the cost of a new RX, I would FAR rather have a V6 GS300 SEL and be prepared to throw £10K at it replacing sensors, seals, suspension, attending to any auto gearbox issues and minor bodywork and ECU reflashing etc. My old GS300 V6 was hands down the best car I ever owned and to drive, I much preferred it to any of the newer models. Lighter, nippier, smoother, more compliant suspension, quieter, more comfortable and festooned with more buttons that Cadburys packs into one if it's chocolate packs. If I remember rightly, there wasn't enough space on the dash to accommodate everything so I had a drop down compartment to the right of the steering wheel, low on the dash that presented what looked like a remote control with more buttons to operate things like the rear rising window blind. It was a supremely luxurious car in every respect of the word and I often regarded it as the fastback V6 version of the LS with better road manners. I reckon you could by a good example with moderate miles for under £6K these days and invest another 6 to 10 K and have a car that would see you proud for another 10 years. I may just look into doing just that.

I think it's the same across the range with the newer models. A friend just bought a new Mercedes GLA which doesn't have a speedo. It's more like a Tesla inside, with one giant screen where everything is accessed and very few buttons except the usual steering wheel controls. It stopped working after 12 weeks and left her stranded because although she could start the car, she had no speedo, no fuel gauge, no satnav, no heater controls. It had to be towed for another fault anyway! It was with Mercedes several weeks and eventually they had to replace the whole screen. This is everything that's wrong with the way things are going with in car controls. I'm old and grumpy enough to realise that my next car will be my last in all likelihood as I tend to keep a car a long time. My RX is now 8 years old and I'll probably have it another 4 or 5 years. When I change, it will not be for some Euro6 compliant tinny overstressed disposable engined box, nor for electric and nor for a newer Lexus. I'll look for the lowest mileage RX4 I can find and that will have to see me out. It will be a nice under-stressed reliable V6 petrol....with buttons and manual controls (as far as they have them).

Yes, agree with all of that. Technology for technology's sake I am afraid is one of those "must have" fashion things manufacturer's seem to want to pursue as they see it as "keeping up with progress" and fear losing sales because the ipad and Apple Car Play generation they think would shirk at buying anything not fitted with it today. No-matter who tries to tell me it is progress, my own answer is "nope, you're wrong!". Progress is engine refinements, better suspension, longer warranties (😁), handling and reliability improvements etc. It is not in car entertainment updates to keep up with what others are doing. Sure, fit inductive phone charging shelves, more cup holders, better stereos, nicer interiors etc but leave our buttons and mice alone (?😆). I won't buy any car in future that has a screen remotely resembling a giant i-pad with everything gone touchy feely. It is a distraction, it is annoying having to muddle through on screen menus, it is a danger when driving and has no place in a car you need to keep control of. Nice analogue dials and a dash festooned with backlit buttons that access most controls "at the touch of a button" and the mouse control for everything else was all perfectly fine and tbh was the pinnacle of driver controls along with HUD which I wouldn't now be without. Looks as though I'm destined to slum it with an RX4 but I won't buy anything remotely touchy feely. I guess I'm just not a "touchy feely" sort of person.

Maybe I'm the odd one out, but I much prefer the older mouse control than either the track pad or the touch screen. It was changed, mainly it seems as motoring journo's hated it, but what do they know?😂

I won't be changing my V6 RX3 in any particular hurry. The driving differences between it and a newer RX4 are minimal to non existent. I wouldn't contemplate changing the silky smooth V6 for the newer Euro compliant 4cyl RX5 models, especially at the current pricing which seems to have taken new costs well beyond the means of those bar the wealthy but if the used price of the last of the V6 RX5's comes down sufficiently within the next 4 years I may have a look then. I don't feel hard changed or at any disadvantage at all. They have prettier interiors and a little more space but I dislike intently touch screens in cars and all eggs in one basket with LCD screens mean if they go wrong, you're stuffed. Much prefer physical buttons and real dials.

It may not be the motor, it may be the CANBUS system just not conveying the message for the motor to operate, which a reset should fix. If the reset doesn't work, then unfortunately, the motor seems to be the likely culprit. Mine was only done under warranty as the car's within the 10 year coverage period

Yes, because as we all know, a click tocking is better than a tock clicking, or an 'orse clopping.

They did the same to mine. I also moved 2 miles within the same geographical area and they tried upping my premium by £200 annually but refused to justify why so I cancelled my renewal and went elsewhere where I got fully comp with legal protection, breakdown cover and protected NCB for just under £300.

I'm afraid that any claim, even a no fault claim, often results in your premium increasing so it is an unfortunate fact of life that coughing up for minor repairs yourself is usually the cheapest longer term proposition these days. I see insurance as a legal obligation but not something I'd ever claim off for anything other than a major prang or theft. Even NCD won't guarantee no rise in premium following a claim unless it is protected. You always ending up paying one way or the other.

Suspension is the part that joins the voicecoil/cone assembly to the motor assembly and can be replaced if parts are available although it's not one for a diy enthusiast as it can be very tricky. The surround (which I think you mean) is the foam or rubber surround to the cone and these are routinely replaced for most hifi speakers where needed. Not all drive units will sound the same even if the same size (but from a different manufacturer...ie they are NOT the same designs) but replacing with a good used like for like speaker drive unit is probably the most practical proposition.

It was widely reported up to 5 years ago when the most stolen cars in the London area included Land Rovers, Range Rovers and the Lexus RX450h. The same vulnerabilities are still present as when a manufacturer combats one type of theft by upping security, the professional thieves always find a way around it....eventually. Best advice is don't make it easy for them. A steering lock has been mentioned but you will probably need more in vulnerable areas, so a wheel clamp adds another layer of security. These thieves won't want to spend more than 2 minutes trying the steal any vehicle unless it is well out of sight, so adding visible deterrents is usually a good way of making them think twice or not bothering. I remember when spates of Peugot sports hatchbacks were being stolen some years ago, Peugot proudly announced the addition of "thief proof" mobilisers on one of their Rallye or GTi models. It was parked outside a showroon. The first week it was on show, thieves stole it within 2 minutes by working our where the wiring was, and simply plugged their own pre programmed box of tricks into the loom to disarm it and drove it off the forecourt.

I think whilst longevity is indeed related to how we drive, there's no shortcutting the fact that grippier rubber usually means softer compounds, allied to a 2.2 tonne vehicle that is very torquey, so that recipe I think would result in fewer miles per set than on a lighter vehicle. They're really very good tyres, very confidence inspiring and very quiet at motorway speeds. I'm sure if I drove more sedately I could see 15K miles but probably not more than that. I think even if I could justify fitting tyres at twice the price I'd be changing them every few years anyway as rubber does age and harden. I guess if I was doing 20K miles/per year then I'd stretch to more premium slightly harder compound tyres. The only shame is that Avon no longer make tyres here in the UK as their plant closed down after they were bought out a few years ago. They made Cooper branded tyres also I believe. Avon AFAIK were the very last British tyre manufacturer left until they were bought out.