marrat

Well I don't need "substance" in the sense of more raw power, but I love style. That's why like the IS300. It's a comfortable car, but it looks like a sports car. Most sports cars have a huge lack of comfort and tech.

Shouldn't that have been clear before purchase though? From reviews and user opinions it's clear the IS300h isn't actually a sports car. It's a comfortable cruiser with some sport aspirations. From your posts it seem you just bought the wrong car in this case.

Since the acceleration of the IS is quite good when you're already at speed, a few seconds of engine revving should hardly be a problem. Doesn't a car with an ICE rev when you're accelerating? To be clear, I;m not saying anyone is wrong or stupid for not liking the IS300h with its CVT. In my opinion, if you think the IS300h is revving too much with all of its engine refinement and power, it's the wrong car for you.

The problem with the CVT drone is that you shouldn't be hearing it most of the time since the purpose of the ISh or the GSh isn't flooring the gas pedal. That's what irks me about some professional reviews, they race a IS300H for example on the race track and say it's average since you can't race with it. Every car has a particular purpose, if you want the fastest car available with a great throttle response, there are much better cars suited for that purpose. Even in a Prius or a CT you should rarely hear the drone if you drive it normally, and both have a lot less power and refinement than the IS. The IS is more about a relaxed drive with some sports aspirations, the CVT is perfect for that purpose. My point is, if you want to fly off from every standstill, you probably bought the wrong car.

I think Musk would rather die than sell Tesla

While the current Tesla models are a lot of car, it's also a huge amount of money. I'll reserve judgement until the Model 3 is actually released, but I bet it's very difficult to produce something even slightly comparable to the current models at such a low price (35K dollars). Tesla has been great at building a brand name (I compare it to Apple), but I can assure you the build quality of a Merc E Class or the Lexus GS for example, is a good deal above Tesla. The brand name they've build can actually be their downfall when they release the Model 3, since people who never even sat in a Tesla believe everything they'll release will be full of tech and ultra luxurious. I hope they succeed in what they are trying to do, an affordable full EV in a higher segment compared to the current EVs, but it's still doubtful. As for Toyota/Lexus working on a full EV , I think it would be stupid to assume they didn't. How can a company cramming all that tech into their cars, a company which produced the first successful hybrid, not work on EV? I bet they have something up their sleeve, but maybe they're waiting on battery packs to be lighter and/or more powerful. I'd love something like a Nissan Leaf, but the range of an electric vehicle is still a deal breaker for a lot of people.

Is there any chance that the release of this face lift model will bring the used IS300h prices down? Or does the car market not work that way?

I've read some Dutch reviews from 2012, the year when the fourth gen was released, and they talk about 42-44mpg with mixed driving. Even with trashing the car on the track all of them get 28-30mpg. I didn't read much about the 450h though since I wrote it off because it's too heavy and I don't need that much power.

If you found the GS suspension inadequate, I doubt you'll like the IS. @capese21 every professional review I've read about the GS450h talks about 42-44mpg, which is extremely impressive for a car with that weight and power. Did you have personal experience with the fourth gen 450h?

Can you guys give some details about the better build quality? Are we talking about the underlying mechanics or things like better materials in the interior? I'd really love some tips, that way I can compare both again at the dealer with proper knowledge i.e. what to look for. I've read four reviews of the GS300h, all agree the biggest letdown of this car is fuel consumption when compared to the 450h.

The biggest problems of the GS300h IMO are the weight, which you feel when driving it, and the fuel consumption which seems to be the same as the much more powerful GS450h. When you compare Fsport to Fsport for example, the tech you get for IS and GS is about the same here. For me personally, it boils down to: is the GS300h worth the extra fuel consumption and the less nimble ride? For me that's a no. I'd really like to hear some clear differences in build quality between the IS and GS body.

I don't like it.

Can you name a few refinements in the GS body compared to the IS? Both have different interior designs, but the GS didn't look or feel better than the IS at first sight. I drive a Prius though, so both are a lot better in materials used.

Wow, I thought taxes were bad here in the Netherlands. We pay tax based on weight and petrol/diesel here, so someone considering a GS might as well get the 450H. The price difference isn't big between the used models, probably because the GS450H devalues faster. I'll go for the IS300H though, I doubt I'd use that much power on a daily basis. I guess we'll have to miss the raw power and the V6 roar.

I didn't check the maintenance costs, but I assume they're higher for the 450H yes. As for better MPG, every review I've read states the fuel consumption between the two is exactly the same. That's why the GS300H gets burned in professional reviews.

I took a day off and drove the IS300H Luxury, GS300H F-Sport and the GS450H (pre-facelift). I thought I'd write down my thoughts, maybe someone can find something useful in the future. I drove the IS300H F-sport earlier btw. - IS300H Luxury: the drive is smoother than the F-sport, but I didn't feel that much of a difference. The car was on 17" wheels as opposed to 18" on the F-sport. I still think the F-sport is the one to get since I really missed the digital dash and the body of the F-Sport. The digital dash sounds like a gimmick on paper, but I think it adds a lot of premium feel to the car. This luxury model was fully loaded though, especially the adaptive cruise control I'd miss since I have it on my Prius. - GS300H: I liked the bigger interior. It's only a few centimeters, but I guess it's enough to make it feel bigger. The car doesn't exactly feel slow, but it's a lot less nimble compared to the IS. I didn't really feel that much of a difference in build quality, I wasn't exactly sure what I should've paid attention to though. The ride is more relaxed than the IS, but you do get the feeling you're driving a very heavy car (which it is obviously). There's less noise, but I doubt the difference between the GS and IS is very big. I really liked the big screen, but it's still a very archaic looking GUI. Amazing how a car with such a price tag can have such a GUI. In an ideal world they'd just update it, but I guess Lexus doesn't care or the hardware can't handle it. Is the roofing fabric different in the GS compared to the IS? It felt different, better. - GS450H: Wow, what a car. 1800KG moving in 6 seconds to 100KM/h, very impressive. After driving this car, I didn't quite understand the purpose of the GS300H. The GS body needs this power I think, thinking back to the GS300H it felt very lazy (I can't find the proper word for it). The body is the same as the 300H model of course, so you still feel like you're driving a boat, but a lot is compensated by all the raw power of the engine. In short, if only the IS body had a 450H engine, it would've been a monster. As it is now it's a choice between IS300H and HS450H. Going for a 450H qould mean waiting another year though, I wont pay that much for a car.

Yep,the more I read about it the more it seems to be a gimped version of the GS450H. I'll stick to the IS and maybe jump on the GS450H later.

Thanks for the answer Steve. From my quick look at the dealer both cars looked to be the same size, very hard to judge sizes unless the cars are side by side. I've read up on the GS300H, it seems to be the GS450H body with the IS300H engine. I guess I'll have to plan another test drive, now with the GS300H. The new IS face-lift model won't be an option sadly since I'm in the market for a used car. The weight is almost the same btw. Fsport to Fsport, it's 1700KG vs. 1710KG nevermind, I had an idiot moment. It's apparently 1595 vs 1710, quite a difference.

As someone who's almost going to buy an F-Sport (hopefully), I became a bit conflicted after I found out there was a GS300H on the market. I wasn't even aware of the model, I thought the GS had only the 450H which is way over budget, until I saw one at the dealers when test driving an IS300H F-sport (firm but doable). Sadly I didn't have enough time to look at the GS300H properly, so I took a very brief look. Since there wasn't any price difference between similarly spec'd F-sport models (the IS did have ML though) and since I was under the impression the GS is the big brother, I am now a bit confused why I'd choose the IS over the GS at the same price level. Based on the assumption that the GS300H is the better car (better materials? better finishing? huge screen?) the only thing the IS300H F-sport going for it seems to be the LFA dash and the more pronounced design. Can anyone comment about this? I can't really find any proper comparisons between the two. I am talking about the F-sport models in particular. A link to a side-by-side pros and cons for the two should be enough.

Is there any structural damage? I highly doubt it. From the photo it seems relatively easy to fix.

The Prius works in the same way, the engine needs to be warmed up first. Maybe you just didn't notice it because you see him when the car's engine is warm.

I think the old F-Sport looks much better from the front, the new look is just weird. It does have a better looking interior though.

How long will the wheels last if you don't use such sealants?

Why would anyone buy a hybrid and try to tune it?

Small exterior cosmetic problems can be fixed quite easily by a good dealer. The problem is, you can't know for sure how the car has been treated until you see it. A low mileage car, which did a lot of short trips, can have a ruined interior. Imagine someone, or a whole family, constantly getting in and out of the car. This will have a much more detrimental effect than one guy sitting in the car doing 500 miles in one go. As for resale value, I assume the lower resale value will be negated by the lower purchase price now. I'd never disregard a car, which is proven to be reliable, if it has high mileage.