aidanjaye

You will be lucky to find GAP for second hand vehicles of this age......also agreed value wont work as its not deemed "a classic". Agree if car was a dog (when it went walkies...) with above normal mileage....£16400 seems right, or I was PXing it. Policy wording stated "cost of replacing YOUR car with one of a similar condition, age, mileage". Less than a week before car was nicked it was serviced by Lexus and had a three page health check stating car was A1 in everyway. This was forwarded to insurer but mattered not a jot. 12 cars at moment for sale second hand (which is average). The 11 plate you mentioned must have some underlying issue - otherwise at that price it would have been snapped up. FWIW - a cat C was listed at over 16k a few weeks back. To be truthful I expected a figure in the high 18s for my car as a settlement. I was offered £14200 firstly , then upped to £16400 was roughly 2.5k less than cost of a replacement "of a similar age mileage and condition". Car was stolen nearly 4 months ago, which probably accounts for a few hundred quid in depreciation (or about 2 grand if you use Admirals math).

It gets better - the FOS have just sent me a survey to complete regarding how they handled my complaint.

Well I did a little digging and have to agree with post above......FOS is a business funded by businesses. This I imagine is much the same as Classification societies who govern vessels at sea. Who pays these classification societies?? Ship owners. Disgruntled or disagree with what Class say - change the Class society you use. But I digress..... Seems insurers have conferences.....one of which "might" be called LOVE CLAIMS....lol. These conferences are ticketed entry. Now I'm sure the guest speakers are paid from ticketing costs?? I wonder if FOS members are ever guest speakers? Maybe I watch to much TV and my imagination runs overtime. I'm still not sure of moon landing......JFK......aliens and all that.

Yep final letter from senior ombudsman. As I wont be taking it any further, have no reason not to share responses with you guys and just hope it highlights what you'll be up against if something untoward should happen. THEM - The ombudsman’s has now reviewed your response to his decision and he’s asked me to pass on his comments, highlighted in red below: US - “Our policy from Admiral stated that insurance was in place to cover "cost of replacing YOUR car with one of a similar condition, age, mileage". This is simply not possible with Admirals settlement, and can easily been seen from looking through classified - something that the Ombudsman S*** H****** has said he hasn't even done (final section of his reply). This checking of classified would have taken a very short time as currently only 13 vehicles for sale. THEM - I have commented on the information Mr and Mrs S sent in the last paragraph of the background – so I’ve taken into account what they say they believe is a fair value US - He has stated that this is the final decision, but we want either to pass the issue to another Ombudsman who will take time and study classified, else give me contact details of department and we will do so directly. THEM - The final decision is our last word on the complaint. Another ombudsman, not even the chief ombudsman can take a look at the merits of the case. As Mr and Mrs S haven’t accepted my decision it doesn’t become legally binding. So they may be able to take their case further outside of our service but they may want to seek advice on what they might be able to do (Solicitor or CAB for example).” THEM - Noted comments and as expected, in favour of insurer. Seems in this circumstance that they both the thief and insurer came out on tops in the unfortunate car theft incident. As you can imagine we are very disappointed with outcome. As my wife wants to put all this behind her, and try and forget about whole incident, I will have to consider our future route. Meantime will advise others via various forums the outcome of insuring a car for market value, only to be given trade value of a high mile cat C car. No doubt if car is recovered, Admiral will sell it on probably for more than the settlement figure. I will be following classifieds closely and also checking DVLA to ensure the vehicle doesn't reappear without being registered as stolen recovered. This will take up some of my free time but I feel strongly about this.

As promised - update on final outcome. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement. Ombudsman has final ruled that what insurer paid out is market value. They have said if I want to take it further, contact a lawyer. So white ISF with FLSH, 67000 mile, 58 plated, is worth £16400 max!!! If you follow that depreciation, then in three years you should be able to pick up an ISF for 3K. With that in mind, please think wisely before insuring your pride and joy via Admiral. I for one will never use their services again. My wife wants to put all this behind her, so therefore don't mind naming insurer now, as wont be going down the lawyer route. And to be fair, will probably never even consider contacting Ombudsman services in future. Waste of time. Independent??? not from where I am sitting. Maybe I am cynical?? In fact, yes I am. If car is recovered no doubt insurers will punt it on. Just be aware if you come across a cheapish white ISF 58 plate that it may have been mine and should be recorded as stolen recovered - and on Admiral figures, should be worth a lot less than £16400, which is what an A1 vehicle is worth. It has a few things that only I would recognise on car so I know it would be mine - if in doubt get in touch. I will let you have plate number by PM. Lastly - sincerely hope none of you guys / girls on forum have the same happen to you. At the end of the day its only a car - but the thought of being fleeced once by car thiefs, and then again by insurer, is annoying. Anyway, going to put whole situation to rest. Cheers for all the comments over the five pages

Is that three attempts after you have contacted FOS.?

Yep, mine had no chips, 4 new tyres, new brake pads, just serviced, interior has zero wear in bolster....so agree, happy with 19k. Just have to wait and see I suppose. Hopefully here something back on Monday / Tuesday - if not I will be pestering further. Womble72 - Ombudsman , I believe, is paid out of a fund that all financial service companies have to contribute towards, based on earnings.

lotusdave - Dealer it had its last service at had been taking care of car for a while (knew previous owner and car well), and I already forwarded 3 pages condition report from dealer to insurance company. This bumped their offer from 14200 (yes...14200!!!!) to 16.4k. Not trying to be greedy with settlement figure - reckon my car was worth 19500 in a dealer and around 18900 private. FLSH - A1 condition.

My definition of value in my policy wording is exact same as yours by Admiral Lotusdave......

Lotusdave - did exactly as you suggested. Sent them a list of all ISFs for sale.....not hard to do when the list is only 13 long, and easily reduced to show cars of similar year and mileage: Heres jist of what I sent: """have reviewed vehicles for sale in the whole UK, which did not take long as there is only 13 cars at present, out of which 7 are 08 or 58 plated cars. Below is details of these 7: 08 plate, 91000 miles, £15500 (this car is known on Lexus forums as a poor example, hence current price). 08 plate, 97600 miles, £16900 (modified vehicle hence valuation less). 08 plate, 97600 miles, £17500 (private seller - not main dealer). 08 plate, 68000 miles, £18990 (grey in colour). 58 plate, 70000 miles, £19000 (private seller). 08 plate, 63000 miles, £19995 (dealer car, white in colour). 58 plate, 58000 miles, £20995 (dealer car, red in colour)). Have also checked Pistonheads and there is only 6 cars for sale, but all are included in above list. As can easily be gauged, "insurer" offer will go no where near purchasing a replacement car of similar spec, mileage and history. Our car was a 58 plate, Full Lexus Service history dealer supplied car, in white, with a mileage of 66000 showing. It had just been serviced and had a full health check carried out by Lexus Glasgow several days before theft, during time no faults what so ever were found with car. Lexus stated car was in A1 condition. "insurers" initial reviews stated that we could "haggle" with used prices. There may be a little negotiation when purchasing second hand, but not near the £3500 that would be needed. If, as you mentioned, I remove the private adverts, plus the modified car and the poor example - the average retail is £19960 / average miles 63000.""""

It wasn't a "cut price" insurer - Its one of the majors. Not naming and shaming yet but their name has already been mentioned in posting...wink wink. I have listed every ISF for sale since my car was nicked, highlighting the pros / cons of each one compared to my vehicle. Also expressed the very limited numbers of these cars around. Insurers are a business and need to make money, which is fair enough. But they should also take the rough with the smooth. The only make 1% profit. Ask your self what 1% is on the uk insurance market ?? a lot of money. All I will say is the insurer in question had a 6% rise in profits (that's not 6% profit - that's a 6% rise in profits) to nearly 360 million quid in 2015. Google - thisismoney.co.uk, annual insurer profits and rewards for 2015. I wont copy the full link in but its easy to find. Makes interesting reading. Someone in the "know" might enlighten me - but I believe that some insurance assessors are on commission (or they used to be). If a claim is 20k, and they pay out 16k - then they get a % (albeit small) of the savings made. I'm lucky to be in a position to have already replaced the vehicle, but that also means I will drag this out for as long as required. Apart from the cash - its the principle.

First run in with FOS was not great - they agreed with insurer. So I asked to take it further....in no rush and happy to take it as far as needs, just don't like the idea of being "shafted" twice - once with the thieving buggers, and once with insurer.

Which company(s) are people using for GAP? I didn't actually get the XKR till a few months back - so still within the 3 month for GAP criteria.

Gap insurance is meant for newer vehicles to top up for high depreciation, and make sure outstanding finance is covered should something happen. Cars older than 7 years don't normally qualify - or if a car has been purchased privately / or more than 3 months prior trying to get Gap. All policies are different - but this is the rough generalisation. Lotusdave - "cost of replacing YOUR (their bold) car with one of a similar condition, age, mileage". I will certainly forward that one to my insurer. Will go and dig out my policy as its the same insurer.

Hi Rusty Crobar - if what you said is true, then it is yet again the insurance companies swindling joe public. The only people to profit are the traders and insurers....and the scum who steal cars. Surely the reason for insurance is to replace the vehicle for a similar vehicle - not a below condition, auction or cat c heap of sh*t. We pay full premiums - we don't ask to insure 75% off a vehicle... A sad day - just hope no other forum members have same problem. If what you said is true for ISFs, then I would be bailing soon when retail figures are firm, rather than if the worst happens, you loose 4-5 grand. Maybe the insurance companies should just advertise that they will give you trade value for your vehicle if something happens! Then you end up with the vicious circle and attitude of a few who just end up saying "why bother". I cant ever remember being asked by a insurance broker did I want to insurer to an agreed value, something I feel they should be pushing if they intend to short change the customer. Some on here have mentioned agreed values - but not many insurers offer this unless its a classic or unusual car. Wonder why? Gap insurance - fine if you get it when you purchase a vehicle but trying getting it for an older vehicle or one you have had more than 3 months.....but that's a whole other subject I suppose. Anyway - lets see what happens, and I will be sure to let you all know. Needless to say I have changed insurers.

They are saying insurance company is fine with valuations - to which I said NO. So being reviewed. All well and good using glasses guide and such for say a IS200, when plenty have sold so easy to get average. But with only a handful of ISFs for sale, surely easier to just go by retails figures? Industry figures do not really account for rare vehicles - hence why and average is taken across the model range. So if a IS200 is worth 30% of retail after 5 years - this figure is utilised for ISFs, even though figure is more like 45%. Ask an insurer for book price of following - decent Peugeot 205 GTI, Honda S2000, Lotus Exige.....I bet its well below what you can actually buy one for. Unfortunately with decent ISFs being few and far between - think they may fall into same bracket.

Hey Giblet, Been a while since I have been on forum as of working abroad. Getting on really well with XKR. A lot more comfortable than ISF, and surprisingly gearbox on jag is better than ISFs. Performance wise - not much in it really. Suppose all depends if you can live with 2+2 or need four seats. Mines is the 4.2 supercharged version, which while grunty, is a good bit down on power compared to the 5.0ltr XKRs. The XKR I got had the 400mm Alcon brakes, which was a must for me. Don't know if they are any better than standard XKR brakes but they look lovely and are a must for the 20" wheels. Still messing with insurance company on payout. Seems our ISFs are worth about 75-80% of what they retail second hand for??? Just hope forum members never have to get in same position as me. Try buying a A1 condition for 16K???

Assuming you want the car back after some scrot has ragged the tits off it , kirbing both alloys at approx 40 mph, no doubt throwing suspension out of aline, and then plowing it through a field ..... ......not to mention that my wife wouldnt even sit in the car if it was returned. She even considered moving to a different area....thats how ****** off she was. Unfortunately car crime has no boundries, apart from the fact that it tends to be nicer areas with nice cars that get hit

All the cars I have had are just toys really. The lexus replaced a Cayman, completely differing cars. The XKR is defo more GT than sports car - but still fun.

both my ISFs were white....only colour for them I think.

yep 6 speed box.

Well collected a 2009 XKR yesterday. specced to hilt with 20s and alcons. First impressions..although a total different car to ISF, performance is on par. XKR gearbox is surprisingly better than the ISFs. Seats are much bette in the ISF though.

Its the newer xkr id be looking at (x150)....from 2007 onwards. better built and less gremlins.....hopefully.

Yes...scum left it parked up for 12 hours. Car was reported to police but by the time they had got around to going to reported sighting....it was gone (11 hrs later).