Linas.P

Yes that is true actually... I guess my perspective is little bit flawed as if I would have gone for BWM/MB I would have never considered the entry level models and when it comes to 530/E300 the ES looks bad by comparison. I kind of said it compares quite well to lower end Audi A6 (both being FWD), but it is kind of true that there isn't much benefit in RWD in cars like 520/E220... that said E220 handles quite well, pulls strong and yet gets 55MPG with ease. I probably would still take E220 over ES300h, but at that level I see them being not far apart really. That said when looking at used cars, the price difference just isn't there despite BMW costing nearly £60k when new e.g. cheapest ES300 F-Sport vs. comparable BMW 530e: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301243547399 https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212152548351 Sure - it could be argued that is for a reason... as 30k miles ES will be more or less as new... that said I doubt there would be much wrong with 24k miles BMW either.

Agreed - I doubt it was insurance job. The rear end was totally obliterated, I wonder if the as well used entire rear from IS220d, not just boot lid (which would make sense if they had donor car, and rear as far as I know is the same). Note as well there are a lot of rust in the second picture, so car was clearly sitting for a long time before getting fixed. And I mean Lexus metal is quite corrosion resistant - it would have taken like 6 months to rust.

Ohhh Carl... we been over this "does now own, so should not comment" statement quite a few times already around here, it is ridiculous to suggest that somebody has to own something to have opinion on it. You don't need to own gold to know how gold looks like... If anything me not owning something makes my opinion less likely to be biased, whereas you owning ES makes you more biased. Bias is natural, nothing wrong with that - as long as we identify it and recognise it for what it is. I am generally interested in all things motoring, all things cars and as owner of 6 Lexus cars over the years I happen to be quite familiar with the brand. The only thing that is for sure unusual here is that you are worrying where somebody else spends their time and what they research - that is certainly not something you should be worried about... As well - I am very far from focusing on ES, honestly one of my least favourite subjects... if you have a look I am sure you will find that from over 7000 comments I made the ES sub-forum has the lowest share. To summarise - I have tried ES and I didn't like it (no surprise really considering what I value in cars), I have already mentioned what I didn't like and there is no point repeating it. That said those who been around this forum for longer time will know that there was extensive discussion about FWD and RWD and how FWD isn't an issue (or is it?!), yet what I found interesting and main reason why I decided to comment (which usually I don't do on ES topics) is that a lot of feedback was linked to wrong wheel drive, despite owners religiously claiming it is not an issue. Let's just recognise there are drawbacks in FWD and move on...

At least we all agree they are circular, otherwise it may be a little awkward 😄

It could be just generic description. It does say Android 10, which is basically what goes out of support later this year, but in the end of the day they still getting systems from same chinese suppliers. If chinese switched to Android 12, then I assume icebox would get it to, perhaps just didn't update the description.

Well... ultimately all Lexus are Toyota. What makes a difference is better or more premium materials. The other distinct difference in my opinion is whenever Toyota equivalent model exist or not, for LS and LC (and GS and IS and RC) there are no Toyota equivalents, so those are "true" Lexus cars. Now can the car be dressed-up enough to become Lexus - yes it can, good examples are RX and NX (Harrier/Highlander and RAV4) or even LX (Landcruiser), Lexus just spent time and money revising them to the point where they feel nothing alike their Toyota equivalents. On other hand ES and UX only received minor cosmetic changes, but not enough to make them feel a different car. This is very clearly my opinion, so take it or leave it - I don't really care, but I have driven ES, Avalon and Camry and as far as driving I prefer Camry the most, as far as overall feeling I can't tell Avalon and ES apart and if in UK we had Avalon which costs £8k less then I would choose it over the ES any day. Realistically I would not choose either as I am allergic to FWD, but Avalon is just better value for money and ES is just not substantial enough upgrade to justify different price and badge. Looking at steering wheels... yes it seems like LS steering wheels is very similar to ES (not sure if the size is the same), but it is very clear that both ES and Avalon has same basic wheels structure underneath (as can clearly be seen below), buttons are the same (be it styled slightly differently). Note - my comment is true for 2019 models and that is what I tried... if Lexus later updated the wheel then I am stand corrected. As well I noted comment above by Rakesh - perhaps Lexus did refine ES between 2019 and 2023, I have not driven 2023 car, when I have a chance I will try it and I will sure change my opinion if that is true. Yet that still changes very little as I have driven 2016 GS300h and 2012 and 2014 GS450h and aforementioned 2019 ES300h and I just can't find any reason to choose ES over GS. GS is just better car all around. Likewise I have driven probably 6 or 7 different IS300h for what is combined thousands of miles and again I would choose IS over ES, especially considering that IS is cheaper and with folding seats arguably more practical. The only real advantage of ES over IS is the rear passenger comfort, which ranks very very low on my priorities and that is why I often joke that ES would make great taxi... if somebody is picking me up from airport I would be delighted to see ES pulling in to pick me up, being at the back of it is genuinely nice place to be in, being in driver seat.. not so much. Finally, again - no reason to get upset about it and defensive - you have your opinion I have mine.

My time is my business. As well there is no reason to get pi... about it - just recognise different opinion exists, this is not some sort of religious cult where only positive things can be said about the brand and all negative things are no allowed, regardless if they justified, objective or even subjective. This is public forum, people will have different opinions about things, even if unpopular. I am sure you want to have your cake and eat it too, but sadly when I hear ES mentioned and see people self-congratulating on the amazing decision they have made I want into that action too 😄 So you had your little party here congratulating each other and justifying - "why buy it" and I think it is ok for me to come and provide little bit of balancing to say what I think about the car after trying it (and it's it's identical twins), what I liked about it and what I didn't... and why in the end I decided I would not buy it (cannot say never, because for the right price any car could become appealing). I am sure that from 100 customers walking into Lexus dealership there is some proportion who decide - yes it is for me, and there is certain proportion who decide - no it isn't... I just represent that second group. Lexus Avalon... sorry that is Toyota ES... sorry you know what I mean... is okey car. Putting it in perspective... is it better than WV Arteon... probably (that is the only real competitor for it on the market), perhaps lower spec. FWD Audi A6.. yeah likely. If Lexus would offer ES350 AWD here - even I would be interested! But let's not kid ourselves - it is not competitor to BMW 5 series, or MB E-Class and as far as I am concerned it is unsuccessful replacement/downgrade for Lexus GS, which I highly regard as great car. That does not mean it doesn't have positives, it is well equipped, roomy, quiet and I am sure it is reliable, which can't be said about German competitors... even the looks which I hated at first I would agree have grown on me, F-Sport look alright in person. That it is niche vehicle... yes it is sorry that is a fact. IS it bad that it is niche vehicle really depends on perspective... some would say that is positive.

Just tiny things... starting with car being unwashed and resting it's bumper on the kerb. The car seems to have IS220d boot lid (which is fine as far as I am concerned), it as well has IS220d taillights which is kind of sad as the IS-F taillights are distinctive and best looking ones from mk2 in my opinion. Apart of that I don't know what else was fitted from IS220d, but nothing really concerns me. I don't understand the issue with it because IS220d and IS-F shares many body panels, it is not like IS220d had inferior quality boot lid or something, it is still Lexus part. The cosmetic issues are mostly at the back, ugly exhaust (we can call it subjective), the rear bumper is different shade, the gaps are not right, the parking sensors are missing or have fallen inside the bumper... apart of that the rest of the body looks straight cannot really fault it. As well car looks lower than standard for me, it could be lowered which I guess is not really surprising, but rear seems to have excess camber, is it from lowering, is that optical illusion from camera or maybe it is rear suspension issues... who knows. One thing for sure - if I would be selling this car, it would be washed, it would be polished, the pictures would be taken in nice location, in good light and the car would look much better. Currently how it looks is that owner overall does not care and it gives "bad vibes". Is that the reason not to buy the car... yes, yes it is a reason... sometimes something just doesn't feel right and I walk away from the car. This would be the car I would walk away for £9000... Agree with all the rest you said, but I just can't see issue with bootlid. Getting same colour bootlid is the best way to fix such damage, who cares if it is from IS220d it is identical... as long as you don't keep the badge! As well you right regarding rear bumper, I have seen missing parking sensors and that it is slightly different shade, but there is something more... it just doesn't look right. And I suspect it is welded and made out of filler, the lines and reflections are just not right on it... or maybe it is just because the matched the paint poorly and it stands out. In grand scheme of things if the bumper and exhaust would be the only issues then it isn't that bad... but it makes me question the quality of the rest of the work.

You remember wrong... Sound proofing obviously will be better in Lexus, hence it weights like 150kg more than equivalent Avalon (ES is based on Avalon and not Camry), that said the drivetrain is same on all 3 (if you get same spec hybrid), it feels exactly the same to drive, it handles exactly the same if anything Avalon/Camry being slightly lighter feel nippier and more keen. From drivers position is is hard to find any differences between Avalon and ES, blindfolded I doubt you would be able to tell which car you are sitting in (except of obvious differences like infotainment controls). But for example steering wheel is identical with identical buttons, the buttons on the door are the same, not similar - they are exactly identical in both cars. My biggest issue overall were cheap feeling plastics everywhere in the cabin (and this was F-Sport + Takumi). Now you will find cheap plastics in every car and that is fine, maybe somewhere in the boot or under the dash, but compared to other Lexus in ES driver is just surrounded by cheap plastics - all "brushed aluminium" effect plastics, the black plastic on the centre console and near the window controls, they all feel cheap and they are exactly the sort of plastics used in cheaper models. I was told previously that I am wrong and I should have tried the actual Takumi, but that is may experience from the "top of the range" fully loaded F-Sport + Takumi. Fair to say - I have complained about cheap "carbon fibre" effect plastics in RC and IS, but that was only one single piece surrounding windows control buttons, on ES that is pretty much all around the driver, which is what cheapens the car a lot. The ES existed from the beginning and it sold well worldwide for the price. That is the key thing - everything is worth something and at the right price the ES is good car for somebody. Not for me, but for somebody it is good car. However, GS replacement it is not, it is far inferior car and when coming at the same price as GS it is just not good deal. So that is sold well for 7 generations really means nothing and it is kind of pointless fact... Golf is on it's 9th generation now? Does that mean Golf is better than ES? What are you trying to say? What Lexus staff decides to drive... I assume what doesn't sell 🙂 As for sound proofing I agree (actually ES is extremely quiet car inside), but the response is same as above... as well it almost makes it worse, because better sound proofing allows you to hear all cheap plastic parts creaking inside. So OK - ES wins on single criteria which is soundproofing? Hooray - if your only criteria is soundproofing then you have yourself a winner! What else it is good at? I am not saying sound proofing is not important, but that is very far from the most important criteria for me when buying the car, not even top 10.

If NX is upmarket version of Yaris, then I don't know where to put ES... NX is noticeably more solid car and better put together than ES which feels "modern but cheap" (as it is Toyota Avalon... and yes I know NX is just a RAV4, but somehow Lexus put enough effort to make NX feel like Lexus). Admittedly, I have not tried new NX, nor RAV4 (don't know if Lexus cheapened it down, but so far owner's feedback does not suggest that), maybe it just happens to be that RAV4 itself is more solid than Avalon. That said what I have specifically tried - 2019 NX vs 2019 ES and the NX feels class above, whereas ES feels distinctively like Toyota. As it happens I have driven both new Camry and Avalon quite extensively and ES is just identical down to the buttons and stalks, it is the same car just with Lexus badge. ES does have different entertainment system and obviously ML sounds 100 times better than anything fitted to Camry, but in other hand Avalon/Camry infotainment is easier to use, more straightforward controls and it has android auto/apple car play out of the box, whereas not all ES have it (not sure when Lexus started fitting it as standard). As for turning circle - that is because of FWD (wheel lock angle just can be as good as RWD because drive shaft don't bend), lack of steering response - again that is FWD and I doubt it could be improved (Lexus isn't known for best steering feedback/feel, but FWD does not help), struggling to put down power on slip roads again FWD. When I say - I will never own FWD car many argue that "in normal driving it is not an issue and if it is an issue then you must be driving like maniac", yet just quick glance at the feedback (which I must point out is very honest and helpful) suggest there are plenty of examples in normal driving where FWD is inferior. I know existing ES owners already hate me, but I won't miss a chance to point out that FWD is just wrong wheel drive and ES overall is step down from both GS and even IS. Yes it is bigger than IS, it is better equipped and more modern than GS... the only problem it isn't really a Lexus or at least doesn't fee like one in my opinion. OP - have you considered very late GS? There still must be few around from 2019 (although none for sale now). Definitely better driving car, more luxurious, better put together, more comfortable... but little bit more dated and will be slightly worse on fuel. Certainly big upgrade from IS, not side-step like ES.

Still about 10 million times better than what Lexus had fitted from factory, but otherwise I agree. The question then remains whenever one wants to put £500 worth system in car which (depending on the year) could be worth £2000... or do with £250 system which is still massively better.

Yeah... as I said they literally said "no picture no sale" 🙂

I have no doubt this is applicable for Teyes and Xtrons, that said cheap Chinese one I bought (basically similar to what OP posted a link for) had no optical connection, optical connection was optional and I believe would have costed more. So your warning is correct in a sense that "if you buy Teyes and Xtrons in particular and if you have no ML" then you will need optical decoder box. That is correct. But the one OP linked as far as I can tell will not need any decoder, unless like Ahmed said OP asks for optional 10" screen. Although here you right again - descriptions are not very clear and kind of generic, but in my experience sellers usually checks what you need and sends you right unit, because let's face it - if it does not fit then it becomes their liability and alibaba or aliexpress don't care much, they just going to refund buyer and it will be end of that.

Yeah... I think he is a little bit cheeky or overoptimistic. The realistic price for the car is already £9,000 in the best of the days (just mileage and cat-S considered), if car needs more work (which it seems) then price should potentially be even lower. I guess he hoped some sucker not knowing or not reading what they buying going to come and bid maybe £9,500... but it is pretty much "but it now" price, not the starting bid really. That said I think this is counterproductive - if anyone going to make too high bid on ebay they simply won't pay and seller will need to relist... so waste of time really. In other hand I understand him in a way - if he made 99p/no reserve auction the car may sell for £3000... because realistically market is very small for these beasts and if not for OP posting it here I don't think many would know about auction. Finally thing which is clear - he is expecting cash in hand, because ebay fees would be astronomical for £9000 sale (something like 12% of the final sale price). Although that is not unusual - most of cars sold on ebay are this way, after winning you transfer say £500 deposit and then pay rest in person in cash or bank transfer.

As mentioned above I would take it for £6000 right away (even if car is trash, just in parts it is worth that much), but at the same time I agree and said myself that car looks rough... and as Rich said - if it looks rough in pictures then what it is in real life?! Doesn't even look like owner took particular care to show the car in best light and if owner does not care even when selling, then I would not expect it to be in amazing condition. Not sure why IS220d parts would put anyone off... it just makes sense that crashed IS-F would get most of panels/parts from IS220d, so it does not surprise me and from the parts that fit IS-F are identical e.g. boot lid. So I think it is much better to find matching colour IS220d, then to repaint "IS-F" part. Keeping IS220d badge is kind of weird thought... Now obviously there are parts like front wings, bonnet, front bumper which are IS-F specific so there is no way of using something from IS220d, nor I believe that is what was done. It could easily be some issues with gearbox or rear differential... and as all know they would be expensive to fix on IS-F. I don't think engine is high risk, but who knows. And yes the exhaust would have to go.. just looks awful...

I never said I disagree. And very long story was generally to the topic and not really a response. I just picked-up on "averaged" logic which I see very often in these discussions and which is very flawed.

Your link shows £440 for me... but I can't see how it is different/better then the one I linked for £371.

Averaging of everything is TRUE, but it just doesn't work in practice. If we would be able to average everything like that then there would never be traffic jams and there would be no morning rush hour... because you know on average 10,000 cars drives on this road per hour throughout the year. The only problem is that Monday-Friday 8-10AM 100,000 cars drives on the same road, yet 2-4AM only 50 drives on the same road and on Sunday and Saturday it is maybe 1,000 cars per hour. Same with solar power - it is great tech passively making electricity out of "nothing"... 1.25Kw on average from 16 panels... the only problem is that when you come back home 9PM the produce exactly 0Kw... And this can be said pretty much on everything - one may be spending on average £10 per day on their bank card, but think of how restrictive it would be if it would be capped at £10per day! Sure that is still £3650 per year, but try paying for groceries on Saturday and it turns out you can't. So yes it works on average journey, and yes it works if we average charging needed for these cars as if they charging 24/7/365 consistently at the same rate... Long story short - averages just don't work in real-life and when it comes to BEVs they don't work for passenger cars in particular. They would be great for example to be used as postal service and delivery vehicles (last mile delivery) where every single day the route is 120miles consistently, they work okey as taxis in the city centre where distances are short and average drives does 120-200miles, they work ok as secondary cars... basically anything where range is consistently the same every day, or where range does not matter. The reality for normal cars for personal use is that their mileage is just not consistent and that is where justified range anxiety comes in. Say for example I do 12k miles a year... that turns out to be on average 32 miles per day... so in theory Lexus UX300e should be plenty for me... the only problem is that this statistic is completely misleading because I only drive for like 120 day a year! So that is already borderline on the limit (average of 100miles per day whereas UX real life range is ~160 miles), but that still doesn't even look in the sorts of driving I am doing... because sure many trips will be 10, 15, 20 miles to the shops or to nearby park etc. But for example in the summer every other weekend I go to the nearest beach and that is 120 miles each way and ~50 miles in the location. I haven't seen ANY charging point in Frinton and as far as I know the closest one is like 20 miles away from the beach... Then I go to airport on average like 10 times a year... 60-80 miles each way... In fact with 165miles range I doubt I could do a journey to Luton and that is supposedly "London airport". Well and then comes my 2-3 times per year trip to France, or Scotland, or Cornwall... and that can easily be 1000-3000 miles per week... besides being able to drive at 120MPH in Europe is big deal. And suddenly electric car dream falls to the ground... Honestly... if I had space for 3 cars and could charge EV at home... I would have 3 cars and once of them would be EV... but how many people realistically have space for 3 cars? Forget London... even across UK that is rare. And that is why I don't think people realise of how small is the market for EVs in reality.

Basically the only legitimate way of getting Techstream is to pay something like £20/week for Toyota TIS subscription and they as well charge ~£1200 for the adapter. The Techstream you see on amazon or ebay for is pirated versions and the whole set-up costs ~£100 + PC. The PC required to run Techstream really does not need to be very powerful, I use very old Microsoft Surface 3 tablet, so in simple terms any used £100 laptop will do. The more tricky part is getting drivers set-up, especially on Windows 10 (works better on XP, but you really don't want to be using XP nowadays and I would say W10 should be minimum), but it is doable if you persistent enough. Again I run it on aforementioned Windows tablet which didn't come with W10 and didn't suppose to use W10, yet it runs both Techstream and W10. There is no comparison between Carista and Techstream, one is just OBD2 scanner, another is dealership level diagnostics and configuration. Carista has like 10% of functionality compared to Techstream. It really depends what you want to do - if you just want to scan high level diagnostics codes and vehicle parameters like engine temp and RPM, then Carista will do it... so does £5 OBD2 adapter with something like Torque app on the phone. However if you want proper detailed diagnostics info from ECU, or if you want to configure certain functions then you need Techstream. Yes Carista sometimes have some configuration available (vehicle dependant) but it is nothing compared to Techstream.

None that I would personally consider "good", but it seems that for £300 one should aim as close as possible for 8-Core CPU, 8GB RAM, 128GB ROM and Android 12. I guess if it is 4-6GB RAM, 64GB ROM and Android 11... that is still passable. But anything below Android 11 I would avoid. Just for reference - Android 13 is current version, Android 10 is oldest supported, but support for Android 10 will be axed later this year when Android 14 launches. Point is - you don't want to get Android system which is out of support, because that means you will have compatibility issues with the apps on PlayStore and even PlayStore itself may not work. Something like this is what I would get myself: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005058569702 (that is just example of specs - not saying get this particular one).

Well - please share that research, because that simply cannot be the case. Commuting is probably the most wasteful thing humans do... and not only it is wasteful, but as well most pointless. By the way I am not attacking the messenger - I just want to see how somebody in a name of "office culture" managed to twist the facts to their narrative to reach conclusion that person who doesn't needlessly travel for 2 hours everyday creates more pollution than simply sitting at home, which is already heated, already needs electricity and already exists and how basically mere internet connection pollutes more than any form of transport... not to mention that internet connection already exists and the difference between it being used and unused is tiny. It just somehow doesn't make sense to me - but I am happy to be proven wrong, maybe some office lovers can prove me wrong! And that is before I even start on how building office building on average creates so much pollution that every person in that office can drive to it for 300 years and still not going to exceed the pollution created in that process. The point - making building materials are extremely carbon intensive process, especially concrete, steel and glass (which accidentally are what modern offices are made of). Now sure the argument could be - but office is built already anyway, but so are homes... and offices can be converted to homes as well, so there isn't much waste if we stop using them.

The only result of that will be one clean house on the dirty street. I am not saying to keep your house dirty because the street is dirty, but it just isn't how it works in reality... you being clean doesn't do anything to the rest of the street. The only way for entire street to be clean is for "house and street cleaning" to be affordable/accessible and enforced. For example - me not buying cheap disposable clothing, electronics, toys, shoes etc. has not stopped majority of consumers doing it, when I go out to shops I see mums with kids with full bag of literal trash which will be used once and thrown away... that does not mean I stopped doing what I am doing and I continue to buy only good quality goods which I keep for very long time, but I am not under any illusion that my actions makes any difference to the world. So yes we need to do what is right ... FOR OURSELVES. Not in a selfish way, but just don't expect anyone to notice and change their ways just because you are such a great role model. This sort of altruistic thinking that "starting from yourself you can change the world"... is kind of naive.. sorry.

REALLY? working from home "increased OVERALL pollution"... I would like to see the article which states that! Maybe household pollution? That would make sense, but overall pollution dropped by 70% during lockdowns and it is obvious to anyone that not commuting to work is most environmentally friendly way of "transport". Busses powered by diesel are less polluting ... assuming they carry ~30 people or more, but only compared to those 30 people driving their own clapped out diesel car... So in the morning rush hour when the bus has like 100 people on board they are cleaner... but at all other times of the day they are more polluting, yet they still have to run based on the schedule. That is as well ignoring usually poor condition of the busses, yes they are being professionally maintained, but there is nothing that maintenance can do for engine running in the city for million miles. What I am saying - buses are cleaner than personal vehicles, especially with only 1 passenger inside, but as well overall you would be surprised how little difference there is - and that is because average car is in better mechanical condition then the bus, not all of them are diesel, there are petrols hybrids etc. Overall - that is just splitting hair here, transportation IS NOT the biggest contributor to global air pollution. And distinction is very important to understand - air quality in the city is different from global air pollution. So in the city I believe it is currently estimated that air pollution comes from private vehicles (40%) and public transport with households are 30% each - I have reasons to disagree with these numbers, but if we assume they are correct, then it is still shows that public transport pollutes a lot! On top of that... because transportation isn't biggest contributor anyway, I am completely happy running my own car and pollution even if it kills baby seals (within reason, not talking about those running without DPFs and EGRs and not seeing issue with that)... one thing for sure - I am not getting on the damn bus even if they would be powered by pollution and exhaust would be just fresh mountain air! Sorry, but my basic human decency doesn't allow me to get on the bus.

I guess partially proves my theory that EV market is saturated. It was quite clear for some time, EVangelists kept saying "look the sales are X% up year on year", but what they missed is that despite sales increasing, most of the buyers were the people who already had EVs and were upgrading or replacing them. I always said that there is upper limit of people who can both afford to own EV, for whom they work, who can charge at home, have it as second or third car and who already have chargers etc. for the rest of the society it does not work and I never believed that EV share in UK will exceed even 20%. So despite EV sales increasing overall, the rate of conversions was already slowing down for a while (that is people who switching from ICE). And this seems to be exactly the time where it has reached it's peak - electricity price is high, fast chargers even higher, EV subsidies ending, people generally not making big purchases and in the EV niche demand dried-up very quickly. Simply said attracting new buyers became hard this year and existing EV owners probably thought they can extend the use of their exiting car for few more years, that is especially true if they were offered junk values for PX... because let's face it PX mainly benefits the dealers, that is basically a way to upsell the person by supposedly discounting new car for them and dealing with hassle of selling privately, but if they not taking used cars or not offering decent valuation on them, then automatically sales of new cars will suffer. At the same time I understand why they wouldn't want to take used EV if they suspect the prices will go down... truth is that used car sales are exceptionally unprofitable and thin margins activity, that is why they are so cut-throat and penny pinching, I suspect they sometimes even take a loss, but remember they only doing it to make money elsewhere (and that is selling new car)... so if margins are low and they suspect the prices to drop... then they obviously not taking a risk of going into negative equity. So this is beginning of death spiral (admittedly I hope it is). The reality of EV sales was that they never made economical sense and only worked because of either subsidies, tax discounts or as novelty. Step 1 - subsidies and tax discount ended. Step 2 - manufacturers were making cars in line with projected growth year on year not considering that there is no genuine demand and instead people only buy EVs to save money on government initiatives... no initiatives, no demand and we suddenly have over-supply (and yes - shortage of used cars and over-supply of EVs can co-exist, because what is good if used Tesla is cheap if I can't charge it?!). Step 3 - values of EV drops because of supply and demand, demand cooled, supply was adjusted with hope that demand continues - obvious things happen. Step 4 - dealers don't want to take on stock of EVs which they can't sell, margins are too low to take a risk. Step 5 - No PX (or poor valuation) means people just not going to buy new EVs, especially considering that most of the sales were just conversion from EV to EV... so that has further cooling effect as it disproportionally affects EV buyers... Kind of similar to what happened to diesel sales and PX after "diesel gate". All in all I see it as positive news - fantasy bubble burst (or hopefully will burst soon), for those who want and need hopefully we could get cheap EVs soon... for the rest maybe if it get's bad enough the government maybe going to lift 2030 target, although they may as well restart the subsidies to kick-start demand again (which is likely and would be worst outcome).

Sadly I don't know the answer to that and I doubt anyone have had more than one installed to be able compare what is good and what is bad. The issue I have with the link you provided is that they have NO SPEC AT ALL... what you getting is absolute mystery. I guess you can contact and ask for specification. Second issue I have is that they list everything for every Lexus, which is simply cannot be the case - each Lexus model has very specific system, with very specific harness only for that model, so when they say "B01A NX - RX - CT - LC - GS - LS - ES - IS - UX - LX - RC Series 2014-19 For are car with the command paddle between the seats"... That is absolute BS, because RX, LC, LS, ES, UX, LX ... never had "paddle" Only the RC, IS and NX had it, CT had it as well but that is completely different system from IS (.. and it is not even paddle it is more like "rotary dial")... What I am saying - there is no way that some magical "B01A" model can fit 9 different Lexus models, just not how it works. There are more differences between say LC and RC than there are between BMW and Hyundai. Only for RC alone you will have at least 3 different units - one for standard system, one for premium, one for ML, and then probably different units for FL. In short - it seems like their page is generic, have no specs and you probably only going to find out what spec. they offer and how much it actually costs after contacting them. I suspect £304 will the the cheapest unit for maybe CT, and unit they will have for RC will be closer to £500-600 (that is about the price in UK). That is not to say their units are junk... only that their description is generic and junk...