harrylime

Had a bad couple of weeks, between the car intermittently not starting and the stress of project managing a house renovation. Then I fell out with the most hideously rude woman who insists on parking across my drive twice a day when she drops off collect her sprogs from the childminders next door.

Got the car sorted with new starter contacts and went for a drive last night just to chill out. After a week driving my Skoda Octavia diesel, what a pleasure it was. I just wafted about for an hour in almost total silence apart from Springsteen in the background, faith restored in the Lexus, heated seats keeping me toasty. I've said it before, but what a car. I can't remember any car that I have owned have the same, relaxing effect.

As Frank Costanza famously said, serenity now !!

Never mind leaving Lexus, I'd leave my wife for that

yep, ex fireman, seen that a few times

Hugh

I think you are getting a bit out of kilter on how the finances of a manufacturers franchise are derived and shared

The profits and costs are pooled in a franchise sales and servicing , believe it or not the lowest profits are from the sales of individual cars in percentage of gross turnover The last figures I had privy to was a £2k profit on a 2014 Lexus flagship model costing £110k

In terms of marketing and promotions Lexus Uk only provide basic funding for that, usually on new model launches the individual dealerships bear the cost of any local promotions and are expected to contribute towards national advertising.

If you compare the staffing and front of house levels required to run a franchise rather than an independant service shop with two mechanics and possibly a part time bookeeper/receptionist it is easy to see the differentials

The franchise as also to meet targets on sales and movement of inventories that a small independant does not have to worry about as most of his work comes through one door and out of the other usually by word of mouth or the odd advert in the local rag .

Lexus also have a say in what costs and charges are presented to the customer as they see thier prestige product as just that and do not want it being seen as any run of the mill marque, this philosophy was borne out by the early split of Toyota franchised dealerships selling Lexus models in the late 90s which raised the anti in franchise costs.

If you look at the servicing and repair costs world wide for Lexus you will find they are on a par with the UK taking into consideration currency fluctuations.

I am saying one should try to get a better price than was first offered for the job required but the other side of the coin is if you want quality you have to pay for it and if Lexus was'nt providing quality we would'nt be having this discussion.

Hugh

I think you are getting a bit out of kilter on how the finances of a manufacturers franchise are derived and shared

The profits and costs are pooled in a franchise sales and servicing , believe it or not the lowest profits are from the sales of individual cars in percentage of gross turnover The last figures I had privy to was a £2k profit on a 2014 Lexus flagship model costing £110k

In terms of marketing and promotions Lexus Uk only provide basic funding for that, usually on new model launches the individual dealerships bear the cost of any local promotions and are expected to contribute towards national advertising.

If you compare the staffing and front of house levels required to run a franchise rather than an independant service shop with two mechanics and possibly a part time bookeeper/receptionist it is easy to see the differentials

The franchise as also to meet targets on sales and movement of inventories that a small independant does not have to worry about as most of his work comes through one door and out of the other usually by word of mouth or the odd advert in the local rag .

Lexus also have a say in what costs and charges are presented to the customer as they see thier prestige product as just that and do not want it being seen as any run of the mill marque, this philosophy was borne out by the early split of Toyota franchised dealerships selling Lexus models in the late 90s which raised the anti in franchise costs.

If you look at the servicing and repair costs world wide for Lexus you will find they are on a par with the UK taking into consideration currency fluctuations.

I am saying one should try to get a better price than was first offered for the job required but the other side of the coin is if you want quality you have to pay for it and if Lexus was'nt providing quality we would'nt be having this discussion.

I do take your point and there are probably jobs on my Lexus that I will choose to entrust to a Lexus dealer. I still consider their rates to be poor value for money. Interestingly, I got an identical quote from a Toyota dealer. All that being said, they lost this job and no doubt many more due to what I view as extortionate charges. I imagine the majority of their customers are business users who are less concerned with cost. The one point you are not taking on board and the main point I was making, and which is mentioned in your last sentence was that I got quality and paid much less for it. I feel like a mug for taking it to the main dealer for the previous work, almost £200 to change a gearbox sump gasket. Two technicians training at Porsche Leeds and Porsche Sheffield this time around. I can do without the fancy front of house and coffee.

Hugh

It is heartwarming to hear you have found a specialist who as no problem or is phased by the complexity of a job.

The issue over dealership prices is a constant gripe in most peoples eyes but in the dealerships defence they have massive overheads in comparison to a small operator who basically works from one job to another.If you look at the fixed costs of running a dealership with all the franchise costs staff costs and site costs it is understandable that thier labour and parts rates will be higher .

As for the description rip-off I draw the line at that(not your words)

In my experience the dealerships ( I have dealt with different ones in twenty years of owning a Lexus) are approachable and will if spoken to in a negotiating tone will try to come to some arrangement.

If that is not possible than by all means try to find a good independant and there are more of them now than when I first started with a Lexus but personally if my Lexus requires the attention of a trained Lexus technichan then its Lexus that will be doing the job.

I will acknowledge that main dealers will have higher overheads in some areas, although premises expenses will be offset a little by sharing premises with the sales showrooms etc. Small operators still need the same tools and up to date diagnostic equipment, lifting equipment which needs statutory testing, employers and public liability insurance, rent, rates, NI contributions etc. etc. Many of the costs involved will be on a par. Small operators will also have to spend far more on marketing and advertising because they are not provided with a steady stream of customers from the sales side, as are main dealers, in effect a captive audience. They will not have an income stream from warranty claims, which the main dealer will also have. I estimate that a main dealer will earn well in excess of £230,000 per annum from each mechanic, if they are almost fully occupied. They will also have a healthy mark up on all parts they use, as they charge full retail price. I don't know about negotiating a price, I don't feel comfortable haggling as if in a Moroccan marketplace. The last time tried it, earlier this year, I was told I already had a discount rate of £90 per hour because it is an older car. I did not use the word rip off, as you say, but I did use the word extortionate and would stand by that word, to be honest. I would be interested in the actual profit generated by my local dealer. I understand that I drive a luxury car but it is about getting reasonable value for money

I have tried it and the voltage side does still work. Felt like such an idiot, schoolboy error

Bingo Mr Barber. You win a coconut. I was checking amperage last time I used it (the first time I've used that function) and forgot. The red lead was in the wrong place. Thank you very much, It's great to know what I did wrong. New voltmeter needed now I imagine

I discovered that the negative Battery terminal on my 12 month old Battery (from Lexus) would not tighten as the terminal post was too small a diameter for the negative clamp. In trying to find a solution, there is a plastic fitting on the negative clamp that looks as if it's intended to insulate the base of the clap from the Battery, with a plastic lug that looks as if it's intended to insulate one side of the clamp from the other(the bolt goes through one side of the clamp, then through the plastic lug, then through the other side of the clamp). This lug was acting as a washer and preventing the clamp being tightened as much as it could.

I removed the plastic fitting and then put my voltmeter across the terminals before trying to start the car. There was a loud pop and a flash and my voltmeter cables got very hot. It got me wondering whether the plastic lug fulfilled a function, even though logic told me that it's the negative terminal so could not be shorting anywhere.

I was then anxious about starting the car so rang my local friendly mechanic who agreed that it should be fine. I eventually started the car, having run out a hose pipe as a precaution and it started OK . Next time I tried it, it turned over fine but would not start. This is a first for this car. I left it for five minutes and it then started. I took it for a run and it seems fine. I can only think that all the buggering about confused the engine management system , so it went on temporary strike

My meter was put on with the right polarity and was on the 20 volt setting. I assume the meter was faulty, although it seemed OK last week, so I've binned it

Thanks chaps, I've done it now. The fitting was further down than I had thoight and out of sight. It went straight in. Just the other bolt to sort out now, near the headlight as it stripped its thread. I also have a new problem in that when tightening the negative lead to the Battery terminal it is clearly not clamping tightly onto the terminal

While refitting my Battery, I've displaced the threaded rod that holds it in place. I'm not sure whether anything is broken off underneath but I can't seem to get it to hold the Battery in place now as it works loose. Anyone got any information or pictures that might help? Bit frustrated as it's such a simple issue

I know it's fiction, but I can't believe doc martin drives a lexus on those roads, far too narrow. The paintwork would be shredded in no time.

Having had a ls 400 for a year and appreciating how good it is, the 460 and 600h must be phenomenal cars. The high tax on the 460 puts me off though. No idea what I'd replace my 400 with that would compare in any way, other than a newer model

M

It was PE Specialsit cars at Grimethorpe. They are 2 Porsche trained chaps. I do not know them and have no connection to them. I met John for the first time yesterday when I took my car in. It was a long shot because their website etc talks about European cars, but he has worked on lexuses before and took this job in his stride.

Their website is at http://www.pecarspecialists.co.uk/

This could be so many things it may be worth having a diagnostic. Problem is intermittent faults may not show up. Anyone know of an obd 11 reader that works with our cars?? When I was looking into my intermittent starter problems the lexus service guy did say that he'd never replaced an ignition switch (think he's been there 18 years or so)

As per my other thread I've had intermittent starting problems for a week or so. The Battery tested OK and based on the opinions of the good people on this forum,it pointed toward the starter solenoid contacts as being the fault. I bought new contacts off eBay and took the car to an independent Porsche specialist, who today replaced the contacts, checked the starter etc. It's early days but so far it looks as if I have a good result, touch wood.

The contacts cost around £15. The Lexus main dealers ( I tried two) wanted £432 inc VAT in labour to do the work. The Porsche specialist, a very nice chap, estimated £160, and charged only £140 inclusive of VAT. The job did not faze him at all. At a third of the Lexus cost, this proves that 1. there are good, skilled people out there who will offer a great service at reasonable cost, and 2. that Lexus dealers charge extortionate rates. I can't believe it. Nearly £300 saved. The independent chap is Porsche trained, I believe and has all the latest equipment. The only thing I missed was free coffee and biscuits (although the specialist is nearer to home so not applicable as I did not wait, I dropped off yesterday and picked up today.). As it is, the children will eat this Xmas.

I have not gone to a back street, dodgy outfit. This garage had Porsche Carreras, a newish Bentley Continental and a BMW X5 parked outside. I chose this place because I imagine that Porsches can be challenging to work on and wanted to ensure that attention to detail was probably high on the list of priorities. As there seem to be no Lexus specialists in or near South Yorkshire, this is a good result all round.

I just dropped off my car with the garage. It's a German specialist as I can't find a Lexus specialist (1 reason for not owning a Lexus in my view). BMWs and Porsche Carrerras parked outside, so it felt a bit strange. I'm taking a bit of a punt but if they can resolve it, it may cost me around the £250 - £300 mark for a rebuilt starter and new solenoid contacts, instead of the near £700 mark wanted by the greedy main dealers. We will see and I wait with bated breath

Thank you Colin

Thanks guys, I will try that. Where is the bonnet lock/switch?

I removed the boot light a few weeks ago. I am not using remote opening for the doors. having researched online, I just kept the meter connected for a few minutes, to allow everything to go to sleep.. After a minute or so, the draw dropped to 1.25 amps, but then remained constant

what really puzzles me is what can take nearly 5 amps when everything is off?

I'm a real amateur and don't really know what I'm doing. The meter is set on the 10 amp setting and is reading 4.7, so I assume 4.7 amps, between the negative terminal and the negative cable

Brought back my Battery from Lexus this morning, assured that it is fine. I have ordered a starter contact set because the consensus is that this is the likely culprit. I would like to also eliminate parasitic Battery drain and a faulty alternator, so found this bloke on YouTube explaining how to do these.

I have done the parasitic drain test as described and seem to be getting a draw on the Battery, with everything off, and key out, of 4.7 amps, so it is possible that the starter is not the only issue.

Having fully charged the starter, I tried the car and it would not start. The starter turned for a couple of seconds before packing up. The next time I tried it, it started.Totally befuddled now, any ideas anyone?

well, Lexus kept my Battery overnight for testing and it seems it's fine. I may get the alternator tested but I plan to order the starter repair kit and take it from there.

Hugh, sorry to hear of your plight. I hope your Porche specialist chap knows what's involved when replacing the 'hidden' starter on an LS. If he does, hold him to that labour quote,- it's a bargain price.

Brian

I sent him a couple of links to tutorials etc,, not to tell him how to do it, but to allow him to get a feel for what is involved. I have a local garage I trust, but his workshop is, how can I put it delicately, a **** tip. My son in law has used the Porsche garage and it is a much cleaner environment. I figure they will have the attention to detail needed

Have you checked all earth [ground[ connections are tight and corrosion free

Roy

That's a good idea, if i can find them all

I also spoke too soon. Went out yesterday for another run of 20 miles or so. Would not start this morning. Just a click and then a whirring sound (solenoid?)I'm trying to avoid lexus labour rates. I've dropped off the battery at the lexus dealer and they have given me a new one, as it was under warranty. This is conditional on their testing the battery overnight. If it turns out to be OK, I have to return the new one. Quite trusting of them, I thought. If the battery is OK, I will ask a local auto electrician to check out the alternator. If that checks out, I'll get the starter contacts replaced. I've had a quote from a local Porsche specialist to do the starter at £160 labour instead of the £360 plus labour quoted by the main dealer. Bit more reasonable, I think. I thought about this garage because I assume that working on Porsches demands some care, attention to detail and cleanliness.

Not happy with Lexus labour rates, which are just plain greedy. For 4 hours labour at Lexus I can get a skilled carpenter or electrician for over three days. Ridiculous

I'm a carpenter, but you won't get me for three days for that money!! £160 is good for the labour. Have they done one before do you know? I've heard of garages quoting without knowing what's really involved.

I also spoke too soon. Went out yesterday for another run of 20 miles or so. Would not start this morning. Just a click and then a whirring sound (solenoid?)I'm trying to avoid lexus labour rates. I've dropped off the battery at the lexus dealer and they have given me a new one, as it was under warranty. This is conditional on their testing the battery overnight. If it turns out to be OK, I have to return the new one. Quite trusting of them, I thought. If the battery is OK, I will ask a local auto electrician to check out the alternator. If that checks out, I'll get the starter contacts replaced. I've had a quote from a local Porsche specialist to do the starter at £160 labour instead of the £360 plus labour quoted by the main dealer. Bit more reasonable, I think. I thought about this garage because I assume that working on Porsches demands some care, attention to detail and cleanliness.

Not happy with Lexus labour rates, which are just plain greedy. For 4 hours labour at Lexus I can get a skilled carpenter or electrician for over three days. Ridiculous

I'm a carpenter, but you won't get me for three days for that money!! £160 is good for the labour. Have they done one before do you know? I've heard of garages quoting without knowing what's really involved.

I don't live in Sussex, but that's the going rate around here, and for good people