noby76

what Petay said Dinho^ ..200 compared to most cars, its smooth but the 300 is smoother due to drive train and engine..

Something was wrong with yours then don't think there was anything wrong with his as I also test drove 3 IS200's 1 manual and 2 auto versions and all three lacked the smoothness I found in both GS300's and IS300's i drove. hence I said if its compared to say a similar 6 cylinder 2.2 litre 320i BMW it compares very smooth but jump in an IS300 drive it for about 30mins in town and open roads and jump back in an IS200 either auto or manual and the difference in drive and smoothness is clear. both myself, Colin Barber, Lexus22 and Panya who have driven both IS200's and 300's couldn't all be wrong..

have and ECU reading to make sure its not a sick engine then stick it on a dyno to see what it pushes out before deciding on mods.. for all I know the 3S-GE comes quite tuned out of the box since it was meant to be Toyota racing/drifting engine.. I mean 210bhp from a 2 litre 4 pot with no turbo charger aiding it is highly tuned in my books. depending on how well the engine has been looked after, would be worth doing the basic servicing like oil filter changes fluid changes and spark plug and diff changes aswell to bring it to life.. they do take turbos well if you can source the parts and fit or speak to these guys. for around £3500 you can drive in with 210bhp and drive out with 420bhp from your 3S-GE race engine. http://www.tuningdevelopments.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=892

@Argento Its not the high octane fuel which makes the power its the engine and ECU mapping which makes the power. as you already aware, a high octane will help keep the engine fuel system and valves burn cleaner due to having more engine cleaning additives. so even if your car does not make power, by using high octane every now and again will help prolong the life of the engine and a clean engine drives smoothly and returns good mpg. a car can make more power based on mainly two main factors which is high compression ratio and ecu/ignition mapping and the higher compression ratio a car has, the higher octane fuel it may require to function at its best. all high octane fuel is doing is preventing a fuel from igniting early during the compression stroke. the ability of the fuel to hold off longer without self igniting allows a higher compression ratio engine to compress further the air and fuel during compression stroke. and if an engine is able to compress a lot of air and a lot of fuel which takes longer to ignite into a vey small space and ignited with a spark a much more bigger bang(more power) is produced. so am not sure if ChumpusRex quote about high octane having 'lower energy' meant they take longer to ignite compared to lower octane. this allows for a more compression to be had from the fuel with a high compression ratio engine when put under a lot of stress (high rpm)

compare an IS200 to say a 320i BMW and you will notice how smooth it is but drive an IS300 and will realise the IS200 is not as smooth. the IS300's engine was originally designed to be in the GS models and its gearbox was designed for both LS430's and GS's at that time and later fitted to the IS300. and as Lexus22 confirmed it can be a "flat cap and pipe and slippers" when you want to cruise around and an animal which takes many Audi and BMW reps by surprise. decided to turn off my ECT-PWR button on my way back from work and was surprised as to how quiet and smooth the whole car feels and drives. test drive one..

Lexus is quite right to have the 300h in F sport trim as well but maybe mated it to the 6 speed auto from the IS250's rather than using CVT and maybe use the CVT in non F sport hybrid IS300h's. i recon the 300h F sport is there to cater for buyers who want that sporty driving but at the same time don't want to be visiting the petrol stations often and BMW 330d, Audi A4 3.0TDI and Merc C350 CDI all have sport setups and can return over 40mpg so Lexus wanted an IS to cater for this market as well hence introducing the F Sport in 300h's as well. I think hybrids are the future for petrol powered cars and we are now seeing seriously powerful hybrid cars I mean the GS450h accelerates in around 5.5 secs to 60mph even with a CVT box. most high performance cars like Porsche Spyder and Panamera now offer hybrids, and there are rumours the next Honda NSX supercar will also be a hybrid same as the next Toyota Supra. so its now looking like we can now have our cake and eat it by having some reasonable performance and not suffer too much mpg wise. given the option to pick between a 300h F sport and an IS250 F sport will be a difficult decision cus I would like the silence, smoothness and lower running costs that a hybrid and CVT will bring but will also like the sounds of a V6 all NA unaided petrol engine with the f1 style auto box to feel more involved when driving. the 300h certainly looks nice and with 220bhp and improved handling, that's enough power most will need anyway. I would consider an F-Sport 300h if I have the budget and wont listen to half of what these press guys say in their articles.

test drove 3 IS200's and 2 IS300's including 2 GS300's when I was thinking of getting a Lexus and though the 200 was good it felt light and not planted for all 3 id rove. the GS300's were screwed together felt solid and moved very smoothly button and leather seats felt well put together but felt too big a car for me. the IS300 falls between the IS200 and GS300 in that it feels more planted, less nosier, and smoother than the IS200's but handles better and feels more quicker than the GS300 due to having less weight. as Colin Barber mentioned it feels more smoother drive due to the engine and gearbox. the gearbox is the same one used in the flagship LS430's so it has to be creamy smooth couple that with having more torque lower down the rev range compared to the IS200, it makes it more a relaxing drive and can still be tossed around in corners in M mode when one wants it so in other words its a GS in an IS chassis. you cant have the extra 55bhp the IS300 has without sacrificing something so mpg will suffer a little compared to the IS200 but not a lot to break the bank. Insurance is also higher but again not a lot to break the bank. if you don't need the extra power then the auto IS200 is where you need to be looking as its mpg is closer to the manual version and insurance will be pretty much the same. its 4 speed compared to the 300's 5 speed box but 5th gear only comes into action on motorways or open roads so if you wont be driving on open roads 80-90% of the time, then 1 - 4 gears will be enough.

same here Chris wouldn't swap it for an Arbath but then again the Abarth returns over 40mpg on combined cylcle so the mpg is very good but will probably start squeaking and rattling after couple of years where as my 11 year old IS does not. I also need the extra space and boot of a Saloon. but hey enjoy it Panya.

if you asking if IS300 is auto? yes its manumatic/tiptronic

220 is about what the stock engine can handle reliably any more power then you looking at swapping cams, valves, pistons and the like which then starts to cost a lot. the 1G-FE engine in the IS200 was not designed with performance in mind to begin with this doesn't mean you cant make over 200+ horsepower from it, its not a performance engine to begin with hence there was not a lot of aftermarket performance parts available in the market besides the Supercharger kit and as you can see, that's even rare to come by. so am afraid the cheapest, easiest and reliable way to get more power under the gen 1 IS chassis is to get an Altezza RS200 or IS300. both with over 200 bhp standard. Altezza RS200 has the racy Toyota 3S-GE engine IS300 has the torquey 2JZ-GE engine and all can be boosted to huge BHP figures we talking Lambo BHP figures if you have the cash to take them there.

am I missing something here Panya? you got rid of the IS because you not using it that much but part exchanged it for another car which is more or less on finance?? sure this will still cost you come to think of it because you will hardly be using the new car but be paying finance on it every month is this not throwing money away?? i would rather have a car which is not financed and hardly use it than a car which is financed but hardly being used.

Welcome Simon.. the number of owners a car has is not really relevant and not so much of a downside when buying a car. most people think if a car has had say 5 owners in the past then its a danger zone but it all depends on the condition of the car i.e has it been serviced when its due? and if the previous 5 owners kept the car in good condition, took good care of it and serviced it during their ownership then you have nothing to worry about as another car might just have one owner from new but that owner would be a careless one and not bother with maintaining the car which can also end up in huge bills even with a one owner vehicle once you acquire it. Although service histories are important, they can be forged easily these days so there is not point looking too much into service history. its all about the condition of the car when you go to view it. body work, tyre condition, no under body leaks, no suspension knocks and gearbox works ok when you test drive that's how I buy a car cus I end up re servicing a car and replacing spark plugs and all fluids from engine oil, gearbox fluids to brake fluids and diff fluids when I buy a car anyway just to keep my mind at rest and know its been done rather than what a stamp in a book tells me. enjoy..

all the best Panya..hopefully you will be back again would be nice to swap my IS300 with yours as I do like the colour and mileage :winky:hope it finds a good owner tho..

I use CC on m'ways too and have never hit the wrong pedal when slowing down or braking. if you watch the pedal distance carefully the brake pedal is positioned higher than the accelerator pedal and its more wider in size aswell in automatic cars compared to the accelerator pedal which is smaller and position maybe a centimetre or 2 behind the brake pedal so even in an emergency your foot is likely to depress the brake pedal first before the accelerator pedal when one accidentally aims for the space between the two pedals when intending to brake and any experienced driver wont miss this 90% of the time a new driver? yes likely but not an experienced driver. as experienced driver will 'instinctively' aim their foot to the centre during an emergency situation all times.

go for SUCK ,BANG , BLOW option and call it a day mate. suck = intake/induction kit bang = higher performance spark plugs, higher octane fuel blow = cat back exhaust. the above mods might yield 5-10bhp if you lucky but wont transform it into a 6 sec car..put your money into suspension upgrade and brake upgrade instead and what you wont have in raw power you will make up in late braking with better brakes and carry more speed round corners with better sport suspensions. :winky:

thing is it shouldn't matter if a car has chain driven cams as it has the advantage not needing service(changing) compared to belt driven cam engine. and pretty much all modern cars are chain driven cams now. so its either a chain design fault from BMW or the service interval they have stated for oils changes is too long and causes the chain to malfunction due to the oil being dirty. all chain driven cars need clean oil to function properly (well that's what I was told by a ford mechanic who worked on my chain driven V6 Cougar) and I know most modern diesel cars don't need oil changes for at least 18 - 20k miles interval and my gut feeling will be the oil gets too dirty and causes the chains to malfunction. anyway I don't own a BM so that's one problem I don't have to deal with.

still cant see any where in your highlighted texts of me comparing an LS to S320CDI in your posts above. not trying to throw this thread off topic here but. most comparison review articles I have read comparing an LS to an S class and BMW 7 series of the same engine capacity. confirms. The Lexus was more refined to drive The Lexus was more quieter to drive. The Lexus in general has a record of being more reliable than the competition and when it comes to ultimate driving machines, Nurburgring track time records do not lie. the LFA recorded a faster time compared to any super car from Mercedes or BMW. the times are not based on how much the cars are worth but how quickly the track can be covered. so your price comparison is pointless. the track is still open so Merc still has opportunity to throw money into the SLS to bring it to the same price as the LFA and we can see if it beats the LFA time. and for Lexus being better than the competition is based solely on my experience from test driving the BMW, Audi and Merc when I was looking for a 3 litre car and concluded the Lexus was better. a BMW owner will conclude BMW is better and same as an Audi owner will conclude Audi is better. so not sure where you were going with this question but its a flawed one.

@thesmileyone seriously I didn't mean to offend all I was saying was to drive an LS before passing judgement about no Lexus being able to match an S Class or BMW 7 series. below is my quote. " I owned a BMW 520i briefly , I have driven my mates BMW 330Ci few times, rode in my brothers mates S Class 55 with the AMG package not the real AMG in New York as he uses it for Chauffeuring and rode in 2011 E Class 320 CDI as a taxi car when i was in Munich and all are nothing special with the exception of the S55 maintly the engine sound and sound system of that car is beast. so it boils down to what the buyer is looking for." now point out where in this quote was I comparing an LS to an S320 CDI?? all I was listing were German cars I have driven or rode in and commented on them being nothing special except the S55 there was no mention comparing any to an LS. we could all come on a forum and list cars we have driven even if we did it in our dreams and no one will know for sure. so I am in no way condescing you for owning a Passat. as I will pick an R36 Passat over an Audi or BMW for their sheer rareness and looks. so I also love me a Passat key my self. we all know Lexus is getting there and getting there very fast in only its 24th year of existence but again we all know the Germans set the benchmark when it comes to automobiles and the Japs always take this and improve on it. The decision to drive a Lexus over Merc, BMW or Audi or vice versa depends solely on the buyer,and as you have stated if they can afford to Lease a Lexus from new as they tend to be quite expensive to lease from new compared to the German competition. so budget also is a factor I the decision making as each brand has its pros and cons in some way shape or form. with my small budget, I had the chance to either get a 330i BMW , an A4 Audi 3.0 Quattro, a C Class Merc 320 or a Lexus IS300. and I went with the IS just because I like to be different on the road and want Jap reliability but that's me. so its always a buyer decision to drive one over the other and not the fact that Merc or BMW or even Audi does it better than Lexus.

The Relentless pursuit of Perfection....

I am not missing the point. I know very well those who afford those cars don't care about reliability to begin with. I know they pay the 165K for a badge on a bonnet as Lexus still beats them with regards to build and product differentiation. as the OP mentioned, most properties in the residence he was staying cost 500K upwards and most of them were driving Lexus's. If the Lexus badge, build quality, product differentiation was not up there with a Merc, BMW or Audi, then those high earners wont have one parked in front of their homes or golf course. If they can afford a 500k house then sure they can afford a 165K top tier Merc or BMW but they chose not to. @thesmileyone Lexus currently does not have a high performance model Like a highly tuned 6 litre or a bi turbo 5.0 litre as found in the Merc AMG models so a comparison is pointless. lets wait until Lexus brings out a highly tuned LS model then we can go crazy with comparing an LS with a 65AMG or bi turbo model. and a 320 CDI has an engine capacity of 3220 cc so its not a 2.0 diesel as you claim. infact lets be truthful about this Mercedez benz has been making cars since 1800's BMW has been making cars since 1900's Lexus brand has been in existence for only 24years. now for a 24 year old brand to start rubbing shoulders, with brands that have been around for over 125 years says a lot about Lexus. as I previously said its not the best Luxury car in the world but its up there and only took 24 years..and wasn't having a dig at your Passat was only asking to drive an LS before making a comment about no Lexus model beating a Merc S class or BMW 7 series. infact the 20 year old LS400 is still said by its owners to be smoother, quieter and rides better than some newer S classes, and 7 series BM's they test drove with around the same capacity engine as the LS.

And those cost prob twice the price of a new LS so i would be surprised if they dont beat the LS ... The Germans know how to build a car and no one disagrees. I owned a BMW 520i briefly , I have driven my mates BMW 330Ci few times, rode in my brothers mates S Class 55 with the AMG package not the real AMG in New York as he uses it for Chauffeuring and rode in 2011 E Class 320 CDI as a taxi car when i was in Munich and all are nothing special with the exception of the S55 maintly the engine sound and sound system of that car is beast. so it boils down to what the buyer is looking for. . as Exdee confirmed 'Reliabilty' aside, why in world would some one pay that much money for top tier S Class and expect a vauxhall to be more reliable than it?? facts dont lie as when the dust settles Lexus comes on top. if i pay £150k for a top tier S class then i expect it to be reliable and smoother than a Lexus but is it??

and what does Merc S class and BMW 750i do best that hasnt been surpased by Lexuss??? you cant get any more refined than a Lexus - LS460, LS600H you cant get any quieter than a Lexus - LS400,LS460,LS600H, (infact most reviews i read complain these cars are too quiet) You cant get anymore reliable than a Lexus - IS,GS,LS,RX,CT All models (maybe except the diesel models) You cant handle better than a Lexus - LFA Nurburgring record 7 :14 minutes (which super car BMW or Merc has beaten this time?) You cant get better customer service anywhere than a Lexus customer service. If in doubt put the Passat keys down and test drive an LS460, LS600h If still in doubt check review/award websites which has been reviewed by real owners and not paid Journalists and let us know what real owners had to say. e.g. JD Power awards manufactures based on what real owners say about vehicle appeal, quality.reliability, running costs and dealership satisfaction. Lexus has scooped these awards in a 10 year spree. Lexus are not the best car's in the world but from the information above, can you now see the picture they are very close to being one?

Yeh saw the IS250 C up close and it looked quiet nice but more feminine than maculine car. maybe Lexus should have offered ones with F-SPORT body kit for the men. it looks too feminine in my eyes which makes me think its more a womans car so if your misus will be the primary driver then IS250C is worth considering. Lexus/Toyota should have built the SC430's from the Soarer platfrom and improved it a little bit maybe have two models a hard top and a convertible model. I always thought the older MK1 SC's looked better with the long wheel base than the short wheel base MK2's

Lexus will have the smoothest engine between the 3 and thats not me being biased. the other factors will boil down to suspension setup of the cars the drag co efficient of each car, the type of tyre profile each car is running, the PSI each car is running and even the make of tyre each car is running. so there are many factors which can make a car a quiet cruiser and Lexus leans towards refinement and quitness compared to BMW who tunes thier cars for more driver feel. and Merc slots inbetween. so a test drive will give you an answer. if you want something which beats them all get a GS450h.. driven at around 30mph or below will give you all the queitness you need because no engine will be running,

bought mine 104 and now at 119K and only things I have had to replace besides the usual brakes , tyres, fluid changes which every car goes through at some point is rear silencer and control arms. its still quick and does not hesitate to reach its top speed every now and again :shutit: ..Besides wear and tear if you change anything which runs on fluids on these cars like engine oil, diff, gearbox oil, coolant, brake fluid every 10 -20K, they will do 300k easily. I have seen lots of IS200's and Lexus's in general on auto trader with over 200K on the clock with not a slight of rust on the body work and paint just a few stone chips here and there.