noby76

seriously just hush..how heavy is MK2 250 TO MK3 250? REGARDLESS of how you try and analyse it the 2.0 Turbo engine is better in performance terms compared to the V6. you can go on and on about trashy sound here and there still will not change that fact..period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4fp84uB6PA

I am not in anyway promoting street racing but if the IS250 could not pull away from my old IS300 (210bhp) which i think was underrated what makes you think it woud match the 245 bhp 200T

you can have an LS460/600h for 7 series money real not RRP

better specification in larger vehicles with more powerful engines for the - real, not the RRP - money.

give us an example

20 minutes ago, talaipwros said:

better value for money I am afraid

in terms of what?

40 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

 people who cares how the car drives buys BMW.

But thats what BMW has sold to you... tell you 1 thing real drivers look past the badge... nice cars but overrated in my opinion.

but we can all agree the benefits in terms of running costs i.e insurance ,car tax  and mainly fuel consumption has made the 300h an attractive one compared to the 200T.  but for someone who wants to Drive will always opt for the 200t if given the choice of both without those running cost  factors in fact if Lexus was the one paying for the road tax and fuel cost on both models  i can bet you sales of 200T will shoot up.

@Lina2017 import an IS350 from Japan.. these guys might be able to help.

http://www.japaneseimportspecialists.co.uk/ordering/orderinghow.htm

@ganzoom I thought  we have already had this discussion in a previous thread that not everyone wants a full EV vehicle due to lots of various factors. 1 factor being some people want to hear mechanical parts moving together in a car..its all about how it makes the driver feel and EV will not give you that regardless of how fast one is

more over, US oil company giants will not allow a complete switch to EV cars without them having an influence due to the amount of revenue generated from the sale of oil. 

and you think tyres brakes, fuel consumption and insurance  on a turbo 330/340 BMW will be peanuts?? 

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Not really if you want practical car. That is the problem - some people like cars with "just enough" power, but without "performance saloon" associated practical and financial issues. Perfect example of that - BMW440i - capable coupe without aforementioned issues, RC350 same, GS450h same, though it is not coupe and fairly big car... IS200t "just not enough", RC300h "just not enough"... IS-F "that is already performance saloon with associated liabilities".

I am not inventing anything new, just middle ground doesn't exist in Lexus line-up in UK. No reason to have any hard feelings - just a matter of questionable decision... 

 IS-F not a practical car?? last i checked it seats four, has four doors and a big boot... what more do you want ?make you a cup of coffee??.... yes it has over 400 bhp but doesnt mean you should use it all the time.. last i checked was one off the if not the most reliable high performance saloon in its class . if you want a middle ground use 300 of the 400 hp from the IS-F and you have your middle ground..

3 hours ago, dougie175 said:

Anyone else feel like this is just going round and round in circles now?

 I know when an IS-F could easily solve this problem .. and work out cheaper than the 40k price tag on a 340i BMW

it is what it is and we have the Lexus models we have in UK.. we can either accept it or move onto another manufacturer...I did.. never owned a Honda before and have always liked the looks of CL9 Accords so decided to give one a go... But to keep going on and on about how limited Lexus engine choices are in UK and how trashy the 2.0t is, is a bit tiring..

nothing we can do about it majority of IS models which can compete easily with what BMW, Merc and Audi has to offer in terms of like for like performance are only available in the US. And truthfully speaking in the 'real' world performance difference between the f-sport 200 t and say the 328i BMW will not be night and day. a 1 sec difference between them from 0-60 we all know that alone does not tell the whole story of a cars true performance as seen some cars loose 0-60 but win or keep up on in gear accelerations. on paper the BMW has the edge but its wont be night and day.

And if you want to stay Japanese and wnat 330/340 performance you can just go with the Q50 or G37 Infiniti with their 3.7, 3.0T or 3.5 Hybrids V6 engines as they all come in auto not the CVT you dislike and  thier styling bit on the conservative side  dont know about you  but i do like a wolf in sheeps clothing anyway.

Buy a BMW and make yourself happy... looks like BMW are not using good plastic then cus I am not hearing of plastic part failures on Lexus cars. and when i say plastic i meant engine parts not interior parts.

orrautosport.com/bmw-cooling-system-repair-recommendations/

9 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

That is poor excuse, if IS is heavier - make it lighter... that means Lexus needs to improve materials and make their car lighter. Use carbon fibre, aluminium, magnesium alloys if that is what necessary to make car behave as it should. Boosting the engine to unreliably high hp and wasting fuel is another option, but it would be inappropriate in many levels.

carbon fibre and the likes? and you expect to pay £35k?   Plastic parts is what makes the BMW lighter  not carbon fibre and BMW will charge you a premium for using plastic parts.. i will keep my Honda/Lexus

30 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

@J Henderson - I agree with most above, but not sure about 280hp. As in my previous post BMW430/330i manages 5.9s from 255hp on 2.0t engine. What it tells to me is that BMW somehow managed to be much more efficient with power delivery, still keeping emissions under control, but not compromising acceleration. That means slack is not in the engine...

 

Its lighter duhh..

Tell that to all the other premium car manufactures who have gone the same route with smaller displacement 2.0 L4 + turbo charging and they will laugh at you. 

20 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Makes perfect sense for me, I just don't think you are trying to understand. I don't like the way IS200t delivers power, there is no hidden agenda or some tricky way to read between the lines. Just don't like the engine, don't like the sounds of it, nor power delivery - what exactly you don't understand.

point I am trying to make is fact that you dislike it does not make it inferior in any way shape or form. its your own point of view on the matter am glad we can both understand this.. a quick market cure for the IS200t would be to tweak boost pressure and a few changes to make more power from it and market it as face lift model but  as already confirmed previously hybrid is where energy is being channelled for lexus hence they really dont care by pulling the plug. doesnt mean the engine, its power + chasis package does not work.

12 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

"entry Level Luxury also stands for Compact/Sports Saloons"- your definition not a fact. I am not saying you wrong, it is just not how the cars are defined. Manufacturers will use definitions for marketing purposes and there are Dacia Logan Sport with 66hp ... is it Sport saloon just because Dacia says so?

"High Performance Sports Saloons" - your definition again.

"unrefined? IS200T is refined for a 4 cylinder turbo engine video proved" - Video proven for me, what I already knew - it sounds trashy nothing more - maybe I am missing something - which part of the video showed it being refined? 

"Trashy? subject to individual preference you think it is i think its not "- ditto

"Underpowered? official Lexus numbers confirms is more powerful than an IS250 V6" - I said sounds/feels under-powered, implying it is my perception of the way it deliver power, I am not blind it is 245 to 204hp, but sitting inside and flooring it I would give "finger in the air figure" of ~150ag. I have never stated IS250 v6 is more powerful. For the sake of argument I owned IS250AWD and due to the way transmission distributed power it felt under-powered, hence I not liked it - same engine, completely different experience.

I already said that times and times again - for my taste IS200t doesn't have place in Lexus range, it can be called Toyota Avensis Sport or whatever else. It would be interesting how it would fit CT... I guess it would be quite good match. So again... same engine in hot hatch would be fine for me, but no in 1600kg IS.

can we move on this is not making sense no more

9 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Oh... and one more thing - people don't like it and it doesn't sell. So much in fact that Lexus themselves just write off millions in development cost and dropping it from the range - is that sign of great engine? Don't think so....

GS460 sold less than 450h does it make the 450h a better car besides emissions and fuel consumption? for the car enthusiast NO   .. we all know hybrid technology is where Lexus is really pushing thier energy and resources doesnt make the 200t an inferior package was not marketed well.. noticed most lexus adverts on tv are for hybrid models?  

But the IS model has always been s sports saloon since gen1. No need to differentiate as the difference is already there and have been stated by manufactures. Lexus IS250, IS200t, Honda Accord 2.4 which by the way is sold as Acura TSX in US are all dubbed as entry Level Luxury cars any one who knows a thing or two about cars will know entry level luxury cars also stands for or can be translated as Compact/Sports Saloons due to their size of course..

High Performance Sports Saloons are your IS-F's. M3's and RS4's.  manufactures already know this..nothing new to differentiate here..

"That is exactly what I was complaining all along - for me it doesn't feel "sporty", to be more precise it feels anything but sporty - unrefined, trashy, underpowered... that is what comes to my mind."

unrefined? IS200T is refined for a 4 cylinder turbo engine video proved.

Trashy? subject to individual preference you think it is i think its not

Underpowered? official Lexus numbers confirms is more powerful than an IS250 V6

I think you are ruling out everything else about the IS200t and only basing your perception around  a V6 engine 'noise' which is a big mistake.

The GS V8 is smoother than an S class Merc.. rode in an S550 in New York as a mate of mine uses it for his chauffeur business and to be honest there was nothing wow about it that the GS V8 was not delivering so to answer your question yes the GS rides better.

Can  you read your wiki definition of what a sports saloon is again to your self and tell me if Lexus themselves by your own words were wrong to lable the IS as a sports sedan. 

No I didn't stutter when I said the IS250 is not a better car to the Accord and let me know which part you disagree with

no its not a stupid comparison we are talking about luxury and refinement right?? You see Linas you are completely missing the target here. an IS is meant to be a Sports Saloon with a touch of luxury and not the other way round. which IS200t fits in perfectly..

And no IS250 is NOT a better car than the Executive Honda Accord be it in driving dynamics, handling and spec..  

like an IS250 is luxurious  . Drive a GS with the renowned 4.3 V8 from the UZ family and let me know if you still find an IS luxurious. . 

an enginr with a turbo aiding it becomes a hooligans car?? which planet did you come from?? 

yes to me it does indeed drive and sound better than the IS250 in any conditions asked of it. and that's from someone who has driven an IS250 before. And you are right  FWD and RWD cars are not on the same level due to the fact FWD betters RWD in rain, sleet and Snow without sacrificing anything in the dry conditions when both cars have equal weight and equal horsepower ratings. 

"Luxury RWD car, means exactly that... car with premium features, brand and uses RWD configuration."  

Which the IS200T is...... its benefit of a twin scroll turbo charger and lack of 500 cc in displacement and lack of  2 cylinders will have no bearing on its premium features, its brand name nor its RWD configuration. except it will do one thing which the 250 will struggle to match. you and I know what that is..

i know which cars my Honda Accord competes against and its drives better than an IS250 in rain, sunshine and snow i can tell you that for sure..  what do you mean by Luxury RWD car? please explain

but Linas your above post is what you believe and yui have the right to call it trasy bit it does not necessarily make it true in any sense. that why i use my accord as an example. its a 4 pot but one can only sense it at very low speeds and i mean some one who knows and have driven larger displacement cars which i am in the position to since i have owned L4, V6 straight 6 and V8 engines.  once it gets to cruising  speeds it is no different to my previous 6's both V layout and straight layout.  likewise when accelerating, it does not sound trashy to me but acceptable for a 4 cylinder engine. the injection sound in the 250 was the same feeling i got when i test drove it  it was more a diesel noise than a silky smooth 6 cylinder engine like the IS300.

I haven't driven the 200t yet but based on my knowledge one can drive the car at docile speeds using upper parts of its 8 gears and fat torque band will allow it to accelerate in pretty much any gear without getting revs up which translates to sounding even more docile than the V6 at lower speeds as well.