Broken

[Mr Singh]

Right folks...

hoping someone can help.

i was recovered on a flatbed lastnight after my car broke down :(

The supercharger belt is prone to break, but as of recent its not broken in a long time since there were alignment issues... however it broke lastnight while i on the road for all of but 2mins... Battery light showed up as alt wasn't getting charge... normally i carry on driving as the belt just breaks into a trillion pieces.. however. This time a further mile down the road the car just lost all power and i came to a hault. The car will run without the Alt to Crankshaft belt, or as long as the Battery has power, just this time there is no supercharger to transfer power to the crank, but the s/c still spins to let air in.

I called RAC... tried everything. Checked for spark, Fuel and compression (only on 1 cylinder mind u) then i after no joy of it firing we removed the boost pipe so it was out of the equation... no starting either, just a nice loud POP from which me was like air blowing OUT?!

So... no choice i called for them to recover me back home...

So this morning i have been on it all day... removed the inlet manifold, check condition of valves through ports - all fine and dandy. Checked compression all fine (11.5-13)

Remove cam cover, checked to see if the cams were tight on the buckets with a filler gauge, again all fine (i believe there must be a pretty substaintial gap to be a bent valve?)

Took out all the plugs, checked to see for any damage on the tops of the pistons - again nothing...

So... only thing to check is exhaust valves through the manifold ports... to be frank its a absolute night mare of a job, i had to get local garage to do it....

I'm suspecting the worst right now... melted or bent valve or other... Or tooth as gone on the cambelt?

I thought maybe timing was off, when i turn the ignition i just get a sucking sound and it just doesn't want to turn...

My brains fried and i'm lost... and Gutted... anymore suggestions kindly recieved.

thanks.

[SHAHZ]

Gutted for you Am :( hope you getted sorted soon

[Adie]

Sorry to hear this Am Hope you get it all sorted ok mate

[Robin H]

:o hope you get it sorted soon

[DAZA_W]

mate if you have abent valve some times a feeler gauge is not good enough i have seen valves bent were the only way i could tell was in a dark room a torch or spotlight shining directly at it oh and that was with the head off

sorry for you am may be astrip down needed

[MacRS200]

If you got good compression on all 4 cylinders I would have thought it unlikely you have a bent/damaged valve or piston.

As you describe it the car gradually lost power rather than a quick cut out, that is a classic symptom of fuel starvation. If it was ingition related the car usually just goes dead.

How did you check that fuel was getting into the engine? If it was getting there and not firing the plugs would be wet with petrol.

Also the only way that the valve timing would slip is if you lost a load of teeth off the belt, it would do no harm to check that the timing marks still line up though.

My bet is a fueling problem.

[Gord]

Have you got any cats on your car ?

[MacRS200]

Have you got any cats on your car ?

Could well be "Bingo" there gord :D

[Mr Singh]

mate if you have abent valve some times a feeler gauge is not good enough i have seen valves bent were the only way i could tell was in a dark room a torch or spotlight shining directly at it oh and that was with the head off

sorry for you am may be astrip down needed

Sure, i've done visual checks through the inlet ports, and they move up and down as i turned the crank by hand.

If you got good compression on all 4 cylinders I would have thought it unlikely you have a bent/damaged valve or piston.

As you describe it the car gradually lost power rather than a quick cut out, that is a classic symptom of fuel starvation. If it was ingition related the car usually just goes dead.

How did you check that fuel was getting into the engine? If it was getting there and not firing the plugs would be wet with petrol.

Also the only way that the valve timing would slip is if you lost a load of teeth off the belt, it would do no harm to check that the timing marks still line up though.

My bet is a fueling problem.

I'm going to check compression again, when RAC guy checked it last night, we had 10 on cylinder no.1 (from the cambelt end) and just did no.3 as a random and got 3!

When i checked it this afternoon i got 11-13s on all 4

As for fuel, i undid the valve on the end of the fuel rail, turned the ignition to turn the car on and it squirted out... So there is fuel.

How do i check timing marks on the cams? i know there is a groove/slit but not sure on there orientation in terms of line up to intake and exhaust cam.

thanks

Have you got any cats on your car ?

Nope none..

[chisiang]

Hmm...

AM, I can't tell much from the symptoms but one thing I suspected was the supercharger may have seized or one of the pulley had a broken bearing.

When the belt broke other than the reason of not being tigtened, it will be the bearing in one of the pulleys. You might want to check them.

[Mr Singh]

The S/C pulleys and tensioners are fine, they all move freely and clutch is enabling with throttle point.

Even with s/c removed out of the equation it doesn't fire.

If someone can confirm how to check to cam pulley timing marks...

[Purvesh]

Damn.. sorry to here that Am. I'm not too clued up on what your asking, but I hope you get it sorted asap..

[MacRS200]

Ok don't really know but try this as this is the usual procedure for most engines.

Take the spark plugs out, and turn the engine clockwise using a socket on the crankshaft pulley bolt till No 1 (front cylinder) is at TDC on compression (both valves closed). There will be a marker on the crankshaft pulley or cam belt sprocket that will line up with a marker on the block at TDC, you will probably have to remove the entire timing belt cover to see it.

The camshaft markers should then line up with something sensible on the head like a small triangle or it may be that the two markers will line up horizontally facing each other.

The whole thing sounds a bit strange, still don't think that it is likely that the cam timing has slipped but it is worth a check.

Good luck mate.

[Mr Singh]

Well, i tried to move the crankshaft, moved about 2-3" and now its solid, goes back but no further right..

Not looking good

[Monster-Mat]

Well, i tried to move the crankshaft, moved about 2-3" and now its solid, goes back but no further right..

Not looking good

hmm just seen this did you try moving it with the spark plugs out

i understand the cam is lined up wth the marks on the head at 12,0,clock from the centre line of the cam pulley

(x2 line castings)

Edited April 7, 2006 by Monster-Mat

[Mr Singh]

That was with plugs in (i have a feeling i was supposed to remove them :o )

[Monster-Mat]

That was with plugs in (i have a feeling i was supposed to remove them :o )

yep sure are..... :winky:

[Mr Singh]

DOH!

brb

lol

[Mr Singh]

Ok, plugs out, i can't move it anymore.

It just wont budge... if i excurt more pressure i'll break the bar and socket lol

looking down the plug holes with a maglite, piston 1 and 4 are up 2 and 3 down

heres a pic...

there does seem to be a tooth difference doesn't there

:(

[Monster-Mat]

you wanna give me a call

[mus26c]

just seen this thread, sorry to hear you having problems :o , hopefully all the technical Gurus here should be able to help :winky:. keep us updated.

[Monster-Mat]

conclusion is jumped Belt, due to some stray debris from the drive belt breaking up......

were on the case

[Mr Singh]

ok...

just re checked compression...

no.1 - 8

no.2 - 8

no.3 - 8

no.4 - 2 :'(

So... thats the problem right there.

I excurted all my energy onto the crank, and i got it to move, i went round 3 times or so... every half turn it gets to that very hard part where it doesn't want to move and u have to put all your energy into it and it comes round...

So... its more than likely no.4 and head off!

poop scoops!

[Monster-Mat]

ok...

just re checked compression...

no.1 - 8

no.2 - 8

no.3 - 8

no.4 - 2 :'(

So... thats the problem right there.

I excurted all my energy onto the crank, and i got it to move, i went round 3 times or so... every half turn it gets to that very hard part where it doesn't want to move and u have to put all your energy into it and it comes round...

So... its more than likely no.4 and head off!

poop scoops!

yep ...as we said ....

i would do the timing first see if that sorts the issue...i think it will

[Mr Singh]

in that case i may just try the original cambelt to see if it solves it.. 24 degrees 2 teeth? (BIG difference lol)

but the fact there is friction on the crank doesn't make sense :(