Legal Forum

MrADeveci · May 10, 2005

Welcome to the LOC OPEN LEGAL ADVICE FORUM.

Here you can post random questions that you "individually" have ... and want answered from a "police" point of perspective.

Please do not post questions at random, for the sheer hell of it, as I will only answer genuine questions.

This topic can be used by anyone wanting to ask a question, and will save an individual thread being opened/created for every new "legal" question.

This thread can then also be used as a database for members to browse through, and answer and questions that may have been previously asked.

Please note, that all answers are for INFORMATION only, - do not take any legal action against the information I give, please read the LOC Legal Advice Forum Disclaimer here:

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=16945

before posting !

Regards,

legendswraith · May 10, 2005

with regards to seatbelts who gets fined for not wearing a seatbelt for instance if a passanger was not wearing a seatbelt would the driver get any penalties or would it strictly be the party not wearing the seatbelt (kids excluded of course)

MrADeveci · May 10, 2005

with regards to seatbelts who gets fined for not wearing a seatbelt for instance if a passanger was not wearing a seatbelt would the driver get any penalties or would it strictly be the party not wearing the seatbelt (kids excluded of course)

←

I have covered this here :

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=18043

Regards,

legendswraith · May 10, 2005

I have covered this here :
http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=18043

Regards,

thats answered it then cheers :D

Mr Morse · May 10, 2005

It's been a long time since I wore a big hat, so remind me on this one:

Bought the missus a car on Monday, MOT but no tax. I'm still waiting for the insurance certificate to arrive, so I am unable to tax the car in the meantime.

When the insurance cert. does arrive, can I still tax the car even if the V5 is still in the name of the previous keeper?

MrADeveci · May 10, 2005

It's been a long time since I wore a big hat, so remind me on this one:
Bought the missus a car on Monday, MOT but no tax. I'm still waiting for the insurance certificate to arrive, so I am unable to tax the car in the meantime.

When the insurance cert. does arrive, can I still tax the car even if the V5 is still in the name of the previous keeper?

←

Take the bottom slip with you ........... that will have the new owners details on mate ;)

MyronAub · May 11, 2005

Overtaking/undertaking on motorways.

Scenario 1: I'm in the left lane tootling along at 70 (ahem), plonker in the distance is in the middle lane doing 65 on an otherwise empty motorway - do I really have to pull out all the way to the right hand lane to overtake or am I breaking the law by staying in my completely clear left lane and effectively undertaking the idiot?

Scenario 2: I'm in the right hand lane on a busy motorway in a line of traffic doing 70 ish. The middle lane is empty for several hundred yards ahead so I pull into the middle lane and realise I'm actually now going slightly faster than the cars still in the right who are caught up in the 'domino' effect. Eventually I do catch up with traffic in the middle lane and so indicate right and normally am allowed back in to the right hand lane, having passed a good 20 or more cars - have I technically broken the law by undertaking?

MrADeveci · May 12, 2005

Overtaking/undertaking on motorways.

Scenario 1: I'm in the left lane tootling along at 70 (ahem), plonker in the distance is in the middle lane doing 65 on an otherwise empty motorway - do I really have to pull out all the way to the right hand lane to overtake or am I breaking the law by staying in my completely clear left lane and effectively undertaking the idiot?

No, so long as you stay at 70mph, you are not breaking the law.

The 'plonker' in the middle lane shouldn't be there.

Scenario 2: I'm in the right hand lane on a busy motorway in a line of traffic doing 70 ish. The middle lane is empty for several hundred yards ahead so I pull into the middle lane and realise I'm actually now going slightly faster than the cars still in the right who are caught up in the 'domino' effect. Eventually I do catch up with traffic in the middle lane and so indicate right and normally am allowed back in to the right hand lane, having passed a good 20 or more cars - have I technically broken the law by undertaking?

You are what is called "jumping lanes" - various offences can be listed here,

1) undertaking

2) driving without due care

3) inconsiderate driving

Depends on the individual circumstances ... and your affect on other motorists.

Mr Morse · May 12, 2005

Overtaking/undertaking on motorways.
Scenario 1: I'm in the left lane tootling along at 70 (ahem), plonker in the distance is in the middle lane doing 65 on an otherwise empty motorway - do I really have to pull out all the way to the right hand lane to overtake or am I breaking the law by staying in my completely clear left lane and effectively undertaking the idiot?

No, so long as you stay at 70mph, you are not breaking the law.

The 'plonker' in the middle lane shouldn't be there.

Scenario 2: I'm in the right hand lane on a busy motorway in a line of traffic doing 70 ish. The middle lane is empty for several hundred yards ahead so I pull into the middle lane and realise I'm actually now going slightly faster than the cars still in the right who are caught up in the 'domino' effect. Eventually I do catch up with traffic in the middle lane and so indicate right and normally am allowed back in to the right hand lane, having passed a good 20 or more cars - have I technically broken the law by undertaking?

You are what is called "jumping lanes" - various offences can be listed here,

1) undertaking

2) driving without due care

3) inconsiderate driving

Depends on the individual circumstances ... and your affect on other motorists.

←

What is the "undertaking" offence? I have never heard of that one

SHAHZ · May 12, 2005

What is the "undertaking" offence? I have never heard of that one

←

Undertaking is when you go past someone from their left (or your right) ;)

SHAHZ · May 12, 2005

Mr SF......when a officer rights something in that little black book of theirs what happens, is it entered into the PNC

MyronAub · May 12, 2005

do I really have to pull out all the way to the right hand lane to overtake

No, so long as you stay at 70mph, you are not breaking the law.

The 'plonker' in the middle lane shouldn't be there.

Well I never knew that - that's good news and a pretty sensible interpretation of the law really.

The middle lane is empty for several hundred yards ahead so I pull into the middle lane

You are what is called "jumping lanes" - various offences can be listed here,

1) undertaking

2) driving without due care

3) inconsiderate driving

←

Now this doesn't make sense to me (and I know you're just quoting the rules - you didn't make them :winky: ) but isn't there a conflicting part of the highway code that says you should move to an inside lane once it's clear?

I'd never heard of an offence of 'inconsiderate driving' before, could this be applied to the drivers staying in the right lane doing 75 when my Lex comes roaring up behind them and they won't move out of the way?

MrADeveci · May 12, 2005

Mr SF......when a officer rights something in that little black book of theirs what happens, is it entered into the PNC

←

No, it's just kept there for there own information.

For you information to be updated on the PNC, - PNCB forms need to be completed.

I'd never heard of an offence of 'inconsiderate driving' before, could this be applied to the drivers staying in the right lane doing 75 when my Lex comes roaring up behind them and they won't move out of the way?

Actually, no - if you drive up behind someone and cause them to have to move out of the way - you are actually cimmiting an offence of "driving without due care and attention" - as to cause this offence, you need to either a) cause another to alter speed b)cause another to alter direction , which in effect ... is what you are doing.

SHAHZ · May 12, 2005

Mr SF......when a officer rights something in that little black book of theirs what happens, is it entered into the PNC

←

No, it's just kept there for there own information.

For you information to be updated on the PNC, - PNCB forms need to be completed.

←

:D :D thanks

MyronAub · May 19, 2005

Actually, no - if you drive up behind someone and cause them to have to move out of the way - you are actually cimmiting an offence of "driving without due care and attention" - as to cause this offence, you need to either a) cause another to alter speed b)cause another to alter direction , which in effect ... is what you are doing.

←

Although I'm often tempted to do this, I'm actually normally a very patient guy and I'll keep my distance for many miles before flashing the guy in front awake so that they hopefully remember we drive on the left in this country. :)

Presumably if he's in the right lane when he shouldn't be and I get close to make him move then we're both committing an offence - however is there not an argument that I'm a victim of entrapment?

Entrapment: An agent provocateur is a person who entices another to commit an offence they would not otherwise have committed.

I'm genuinely interested in these apparent gray areas while motoring. Is this an interesting one or case closed?

Matthew_McNally · May 19, 2005

Presumably if he's in the right lane when he shouldn't be and I get close to make him move then we're both committing an offence - however is there not an argument that I'm a victim of entrapment?
Entrapment: An agent provocateur is a person who entices another to commit an offence they would not otherwise have committed.

←

I've always thought of entrapment as something an LEO did?

so - if it was a copper (plain cothes, in an unmarked car - obviously) - then maybe it could be entrapment.

but if it was John Q. Public - then it wouldnt be.

R1nG@ · May 20, 2005

Scenario 2: I'm in the right hand lane on a busy motorway in a line of traffic doing 70 ish. The middle lane is empty for several hundred yards ahead so I pull into the middle lane and realise I'm actually now going slightly faster than the cars still in the right who are caught up in the 'domino' effect. Eventually I do catch up with traffic in the middle lane and so indicate right and normally am allowed back in to the right hand lane, having passed a good 20 or more cars - have I technically broken the law by undertaking?

This happens to me on the A1 every day.

I cruise along in the left hand at 60-65, the "fast" lane gets so full of cars trying to procede quicker, but it slows down more, then the "slow" lane ends up overtaking the "fast" lane thru no fault of ours!!

I would protest against breaking the law if I was nicked for this as I have remained at a constant speed.

daisychain · June 13, 2005

I have a question. I was out today and drifted over the 30mph speed limit to nearly 40mph. A police woman had one of those hand speed thing and waved at me to slow down. Will I get a ticket? If so how much will the fine be? I have been driving only 2 months now and am devestated and very worried that I will be banned. I have no other tickets as I always go the limit until I drifted today. Also when will the ticket come? I would much appreciate replies.

legendswraith · June 13, 2005

I have a question. I was out today and drifted over the 30mph speed limit to nearly 40mph. A police woman had one of those hand speed thing and waved at me to slow down. Will I get a ticket? If so how much will the fine be? I have been driving only 2 months now and am devestated and very worried that I will be banned. I have no other tickets as I always go the limit until I drifted today. Also when will the ticket come? I would much appreciate replies.

←

would have thought you got a friendly warning if its a handheld one they normally pull you in and give you a producer thats my experience of them anyway

MrADeveci · June 13, 2005

If it was just a wave of a hand .... then take it as a slap on the wrist.

You would have been stopped, and issued a ticket other wise.

:D

Dodgy · June 13, 2005

I have a question. I was out today and drifted over the 30mph speed limit to nearly 40mph. A police woman had one of those hand speed thing and waved at me to slow down. Will I get a ticket? If so how much will the fine be? I have been driving only 2 months now and am devestated and very worried that I will be banned. I have no other tickets as I always go the limit until I drifted today. Also when will the ticket come? I would much appreciate replies.

←

would have thought you got a friendly warning if its a handheld one they normally pull you in and give you a producer thats my experience of them anyway

←

I agree with the above it sounds like you were give advice by the policewoman. If you were doing 40mph you could have received a £60 fine and 3 penalty points. This wouldn't have disqualified you from driving. A new licence holder has to accumulate 6 points before the courts can suspend your licence and enforce an extended driving test. For this to happen, you must have to first appear in court. So relax and pls drive carefully in the future...............and we'll have no excuses of...I was testing my car out officer, if you don't mind

Tony-Bones · June 13, 2005

"Do you know what you have started" :D as you know i ride a motorbike, and i was told by an instructor that it "leagle" to ride along "chevrons" on the outside of stationary traffic so long as the traffic is not moving more than 10mph, is this true

MrADeveci · June 13, 2005

"Do you know what you have started" :D as you know i ride a motorbike, and i was told by an instructor that it "leagle" to ride along "chevrons" on the outside of stationary traffic so long as the traffic is not moving more than 10mph, is this true

←

What does the highway code say?

Only enter the chevrons if in Emergency.

So in other words ....... no ;)

Tony-Bones · June 13, 2005

"Do you know what you have started" :D as you know i ride a motorbike, and i was told by an instructor that it "leagle" to ride along "chevrons" on the outside of stationary traffic so long as the traffic is not moving more than 10mph, is this true

←

What does the highway code say?

Only enter the chevrons if in Emergency.

So in other words ....... no ;)

←

Every morning i dribble along the outside 10mph see a "you" and back in, but i did wounder since i have seen a few bikes "dribble" right up to the back of the police car and the "copper" hand out of window wave the bike on?

Adie · June 13, 2005

I have a question. I was out today and drifted over the 30mph speed limit to nearly 40mph. A police woman had one of those hand speed thing and waved at me to slow down. Will I get a ticket? If so how much will the fine be? I have been driving only 2 months now and am devestated and very worried that I will be banned. I have no other tickets as I always go the limit until I drifted today. Also when will the ticket come? I would much appreciate replies.

←

I had a similar thing the other week. I pulled off at the lights, up to about 35ish then straight off the accelerator again as i saw the camera van parked in front of me. It was litteraly pulling off then stopped accelerating.

How long will it be untill i find out if i've been done or not?

Damn that supercharger