Nitrogen Filled Tyres

Mr Morse · April 4, 2005

I noticed that one of my local tyre fitting depots is advertising to inflate tyres with Nitrogen @ £1.75 a corner.

They quote:

"Up to 25% additional tyre life"

"Up to 5% better fuel economy"

"Improved handling & roadholding"

Is this what they do in F1?

Any comments / feedback?

jason_l · April 4, 2005

Someone mentioned this before......See here!!!

jason

Mr Morse · April 4, 2005

Yes, I saw that thread before, but it was so full of scaremongering about breathing pure Nitrogen it didn't go anywhere close to answering any of the performance claims.

I thought that there may have been some more experience gained and lessons learned since the post in Dec '04

stuwood · April 4, 2005

I had this done when I had new tires fitted about 2-3 months ago, at £1.75 a corner I thought, why not?

Cant say I have noticed any difference.

Not too bothered about breathing pure Nitrogen as I dont have a habit of tire sniffing!

Stuart

TheDon · April 4, 2005

i think the theory is that the nitrogen has larger molecules and therefore doesnt escape thru the sidewall over time etc. also not sure if it runs at lower temps under heat and load?

legendswraith · April 4, 2005

i think the theory is that the nitrogen has larger molecules and therefore doesnt escape thru the sidewall over time etc. also not sure if it runs at lower temps under heat and load?

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i can help you with this one because we use nitrogen to inflate aircraft tyres, the only reason it is used is because it is an inert gas and in the event of a brake fire it will not add to the problem. Nitrogen is a heavier than air gas as well so as infintesimal as it is it will add some weight the only value you will get from this is if you maintain nitrogen inflation constantly because if you put air in to top it up then you will lose the properties of the nitrogen. The main benefit i can see for car tyres is it will not cause the alloys to corrode and the rubber inside will not break down as quick but you will wear the tyre out before you can oxidise the rubber.

Mr Morse · April 4, 2005

OK, some good feedback here. Thanks

I just called the tyre dealers and they told me I could come in as many times as I like for a top-up so long as it is the same car & same tyres. The initial cost of £1.75 a corner is because the wheels need to come off and the tyre vacuumed before filling with nitrogen. Thereafter it's easy to top-up.

Sounds like a good deal me thinks.

legendswraith · April 4, 2005

OK, some good feedback here. Thanks
I just called the tyre dealers and they told me I could come in as many times as I like for a top-up so long as it is the same car & same tyres. The initial cost of £1.75 a corner is because the wheels need to come off and the tyre vacuumed before filling with nitrogen. Thereafter it's easy to top-up.

Sounds like a good deal me thinks.

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well its good they are cleaning out the tyre before filling them with nitrogen gets rid of all the moisture and it will stop your alloys from rotting inside too at that price its worth it just to keep from developing any leaks in the future

ColinBarber · April 4, 2005

"Up to 25% additional tyre life"
"Up to 5% better fuel economy"

"Improved handling & roadholding"

←

These quotes are only true if you never check your tyre pressures and after 6 months you are driving around on 20psi.

If you check and maintain your tyre pressures then there is 0% better life and 0% better mpg.

Mr Morse · April 4, 2005

"Up to 25% additional tyre life"
"Up to 5% better fuel economy"

"Improved handling & roadholding"

←

These quotes are only true if you never check your tyre pressures and after 6 months you are driving around on 20psi.

If you check and maintain your tyre pressures then there is 0% better life and 0% better mpg.

←

Soooooo?

You didn't give a (qualified) opinion,

which is all that I was after

if you read the first few threads

Bazza · April 4, 2005

"Up to 25% additional tyre life"
"Up to 5% better fuel economy"

"Improved handling & roadholding"

←

These quotes are only true if you never check your tyre pressures and after 6 months you are driving around on 20psi.

If you check and maintain your tyre pressures then there is 0% better life and 0% better mpg.

←

Soooooo?

You didn't give a (qualified) opinion,

which is all that I was after

if you read the first few threads

←

what the ones that ask for comments/feedback ????

read it twice, and dont see anything asking for a qualified opinion

mr barber is one of the most knowledgable members here

Rob · April 5, 2005

like legendswraith i to am in aviation and it is only used as it is an inert gas, not for any other magic reason and as colin says the claims are rubbish.

ask them to prove it gives 25% more tyre life and when it doesnt will they pay 25% towards the cost of tyres??? see what answers u get.

Fidgits · April 5, 2005

Yeah - it just seems like a gimmick to me - I think i'll stick with air...

ColinBarber · April 5, 2005

Soooooo?
You didn't give a (qualified) opinion,

which is all that I was after

if you read the first few threads

←

Ok, I won't bother to waste my time replying to your posts anymore then.

ChrisH · April 5, 2005

My local tyre fitter was asked about this, and his response was a it's a total waste of time and money for a road vehicle.

Essentially the only bennifit that nitrogen gives you is that it doesn't leak out through the rubber of the tyres so if you get the pressure correct to start with it maintains it. With air the 20% (or so) that's oxygen will leak so dropping the tyre pressure over time, as you re-inflate the tyre the percentage of oxygen gets lower and lower so effectively you'll end up with alomost nitrogen filled. His opinion don't bother and save yourself the money.

legendswraith · April 5, 2005

My local tyre fitter was asked about this, and his response was a it's a total waste of time and money for a road vehicle.
Essentially the only bennifit that nitrogen gives you is that it doesn't leak out through the rubber of the tyres so if you get the pressure correct to start with it maintains it. With air the 20% (or so) that's oxygen will leak so dropping the tyre pressure over time, as you re-inflate the tyre the percentage of oxygen gets lower and lower so effectively you'll end up with alomost nitrogen filled. His opinion don't bother and save yourself the money.

←

must admit though when i get my new alloys and tyres i will nitrogen fill them but purely to keep the alloys in good condition on the inside but i wouldn't bother if it wasn't free and if you want a serious mistake with filling tyres with gas then i have seen someone blow their tyre up with oxygen (from a safe distance)

dhs · April 5, 2005

Ok Guys! Let's hit the logic button. The gas is on the inside, the road and the tyre are on the outside! Where does the 25% wear saving come from?

legendswraith · April 5, 2005

Ok Guys! Let's hit the logic button. The gas is on the inside, the road and the tyre are on the outside! Where does the 25% wear saving come from?

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it won't save any tyre wear thats probably derived from the fact they deflate more slowly so you are at the correct tyre pressure for longer its a claim thats fudging the figures a bit

Tony-Bones · April 5, 2005

Ok Guys! Let's hit the logic button. The gas is on the inside, the road and the tyre are on the outside! Where does the 25% wear saving come from?

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"Dry Nitrogen" is heat resistant and not subject to expansion, so the pressure you put in will exist -20 + 20, hence the reason why aircraft must use it by law. our need to increase tyre pressure for motorway use is also redundent. A day in the life of a tyre useing compessed air would be...

Off to work: under inflated, and getting hot.

correctly inflated, but not at work yet.

over inflated, but now i am at work.

= under/ on / over = a 33% ratio

Nitrogen@ 99% on/ on/ on 99% ratio.

Use F1 as an example, thay use Nitrogen in the tyres and "never" in a race would you hear any mention of air pressure, now use Indy car, all theory for handling, good or bad is 1lb more or less, all due to the fact Indy have to use tyre heat and predict the expansion of the air in advance of the race....do you!

Fidgits · April 5, 2005

Use F1 as an example, thay use Nitrogen in the tyres and "never" in a race would you hear any mention of air pressure, now use Indy car, all theory for handling, good or bad is 1lb more or less, all due to the fact Indy have to use tyre heat and predict the expansion of the air in advance of the race....do you!

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So... on the Bahrain GP - when I heard the radio chatter and one driver requested the pressure on his tyres dropping... that would never happen

Tony-Bones · April 5, 2005

Use F1 as an example, thay use Nitrogen in the tyres and "never" in a race would you hear any mention of air pressure, now use Indy car, all theory for handling, good or bad is 1lb more or less, all due to the fact Indy have to use tyre heat and predict the expansion of the air in advance of the race....do you!

←

So... on the Bahrain GP - when I heard the radio chatter and one driver requested the pressure on his tyres dropping... that would never happen

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No gas is resistant to a punture: F1 use nitrogen and standardize the tyre pressure, the tyre warmers only warm the rubber.. Indy car and Nascar cannot use nitrogen or tyre warmers so thay predict under inflation to over heat the tyre and "bring" it upto race spec.

ColinBarber · April 5, 2005

"Dry Nitrogen" is heat resistant and not subject to expansion, so the pressure you put in will exist -20 + 20

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That is not true. All gases expand and contract with temperature. However it will change less than air.

legendswraith · April 5, 2005

Use F1 as an example, thay use Nitrogen in the tyres and "never" in a race would you hear any mention of air pressure, now use Indy car, all theory for handling, good or bad is 1lb more or less, all due to the fact Indy have to use tyre heat and predict the expansion of the air in advance of the race....do you!

←

So... on the Bahrain GP - when I heard the radio chatter and one driver requested the pressure on his tyres dropping... that would never happen

←

all gasses will expand with temperature but nitrogen and air expand roughly the same due to the large nitrogen content but temperature and pressure are linked as is speed and pressure so if the tyre heats up or is heated by the brakes then the gas inside the tire will expand in relation to the thermal or kinetic input and also ambient pressure. However the base pressure will always be the same i.e your standard you inflate at (normal 15 degrees on an isa day 1014mb) but if ambient pressure drops the pressure inside the tyre will appear to rise due to the differential. With speed the faster the air flows round the tyre causes a drop in pressure around the tyre so again the tyre pressure will go up differentially

Isn't science fun :D

but if the f1 car had got some moisture in the tyres the pressure would have been all over

went the long way round that

Tony-Bones · April 5, 2005

Use F1 as an example, thay use Nitrogen in the tyres and "never" in a race would you hear any mention of air pressure, now use Indy car, all theory for handling, good or bad is 1lb more or less, all due to the fact Indy have to use tyre heat and predict the expansion of the air in advance of the race....do you!

←

So... on the Bahrain GP - when I heard the radio chatter and one driver requested the pressure on his tyres dropping... that would never happen

←

all gasses will expand with temperature but nitrogen and air expand roughly the same due to the large nitrogen content but temperature and pressure are linked as is speed and pressure so if the tyre heats up or is heated by the brakes then the gas inside the tire will expand in relation to the thermal or kinetic input and also ambient pressure. However the base pressure will always be the same i.e your standard you inflate at (normal 15 degrees on an isa day 1014mb) but if ambient pressure drops the pressure inside the tyre will appear to rise due to the differential. With speed the faster the air flows round the tyre causes a drop in pressure around the tyre so again the tyre pressure will go up differentially

Isn't science fun :D

but if the f1 car had got some moisture in the tyres the pressure would have been all over

went the long way round that

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I feel that you just "may" know a little more about this topic! "tail between legs" but Nitrogen will be the assasin for compressed air? dont you think?