Lightbrows - Potential Safety Issue

Rob's Lexx · June 6, 2008

Hi guys,

I think its only right a full thread be started regarding the recent issue that has been raised regarding the safety issues with LED eyebrows.

For those not aware, another member's car, Mossyn, was fitted with these lightbrows and suffered, for some reason or another, an electrical problem which was VERY close to creating a fire.

I am fully aware that several members, myself included, have the above item fitted to their cars and therefore have decided it would be in the general interest of everyone have have a dedicated discussion thread so that all opinions and comments can be posted in one place to stop other threads getting messed up.

From what i have been told, and in part what i have found out myself, the lightbrows in question were purchased from Hyper Lighting (a company that has close ties/part run by a member on here with the user name Snowman - although he is not a registered trader). Their fitting directions suggest a direct scotch-lock connection into the sidelight feed and then its a case of adhering the LED strips in the desired location (firm putty, double sided foam tape etc etc).

So what myself, and i guess everyone else wants to know is WHY there may have been a problem and if there is anything that can be done to prevent it happening. If there is a design fault (lack of appropriate fusing etc) then this is an issue that needs to be raised with the seller (and believe me i'm MORE than happy to do that!!!!). If it is a case of gross neglect on the part of the seller, then further action can and should be taken on mass. If not, and it was a one off case caused by another factor, then this too needs to be out in the open so as not to be repeated again.

These forums are a wealth of knowledge, and something as little as this could well save someones car (and that isn't an exageration )

Cheers

Rob

TigerFish · June 6, 2008

If it is a case of gross neglect on the part of the seller, then further action can and should be taken on mass.

What kind of action are you talking about? You are aware of the problem the other member had, it is up to you now if you leave them on yours (un-fused or in any other state) surely?

Rob's Lexx · June 6, 2008

i'm considering all possibilities mate, but un-tested and items sold for general use must have to have some sort of safety assessment surely??

This thread isn't about compensation per se, its about trying to get to the bottom of the issue.

i can make my own mind up about what i will do with my brows, but i want to try and work out why it happened

Rabster · June 6, 2008

We all undertake certain risks when installing aftermarket things to a car so not sure where this will go

In theory if you are that worried about the light brows you could wire an inline fuse holder on the positive input maybe a quick blow glass rated as low as possible.

I don’t have these my self yet but was thinking about it, but im very fussy about my wiring everything is fused additionally so there won’t be any nasty surprise and everything I install can be removed or isolated should I not want to use them.

from what I gather after working in a installation company things that you buy from a reputable store/shop does undergo some sort of testing, BUT it is down to the individual buyer to ensure what they are installing is safe, from reading the posts about this issue it sounds like it has developed over time, in which there is no real safety precaution other than correct fitting and insulated fitting.

The above comments are just how I do things and by no means a "this is how it should be done"

sparkystav · June 6, 2008

I just want to know exactl what set alight? the LED strip or the wiring join or what?

Were they on or off at the time?

Stav

Rob's Lexx · June 6, 2008

same as me stav. thats why i started the thread, no other reason ;)

Tony-Bones · June 6, 2008

Oh dear what have i started!!

Independently can i just say these wonderful additions would benefit from a "fuse".... Other than that and what happened they are a superb addition to the Lex.... I would get them myself :)

Scorps01 · June 6, 2008

I would get them myself :)

They wont look right on a company van :D

Personally i dont like them but each to there own i guess, and if i did a LED mod and found out it caught light they would be off the car and in the bin.........end of.

Geoffers · June 6, 2008

Without knowing how they were wired it will be difficult to know what caused it. Maybe the wires chaffed because they weren't mechanically protected, just like the leds themselves? Could the bonnet come down further, say, if someone sat on it or when it is being closed and caused some damage that only came apparent under the right conditions? Was the wiring run along other cables? Could it have been an induced voltage from something else because of the placement of the wiring?

I'm not suggesting they were wired badly by anyone. I have not seen these other than a quick look at Yaumeisters and the pictures on here.

How are the LED units themselves on the strip? Partially parallel, partially serial? LEDs in can be strange in the way they draw current if one were to fail. Is there a limiting resistor?

One of the issues with LEDS is that they are very low current. People tend not to think of this outside of a light warning indicator. Because the current is so low, the connecting wire can often carry less current than the fuse itself. This means the wire fries before the fuse. This is why, on a commercial install you will still see thick wires going to a small, low current device. (with may have a fuse in, PCB were the track will blow off, etc).

Knowing they are low current and not having them fitted by qualified installers surely pushes a degree of responsibility on the installer?

BUT - You can't expect everyone to know this or even think of it. I don't mean to sound condescending in this post at all and I apologise if I offend anyone. If it isn't your field then it isn't something you would think of. Clearly this has been the case.

This is why supplying them has a degree of responsibility.

I'm not suggesting any installer is at fault or that these strips aren't faulty. I don't know how the instructions were written up but if it was a simple case of "this is how I did mine" then you can't really blame anyone and everybody learns.

If the units were sold for reward/profit and instruction came with them, knowing they were being sold to DIYers then yes, without question, the responsibility is with the seller. These instructions must be amended.

We don't know what caused the burning and probably never will. We should be glad nothing serious happened, its only been the once and now make some changes.

As soon as possible, put a fuse in each side (max 500mA quick blow but would someone measure the current and let others know?) and protect the thin wires making sure the routing of the wires is sensible.

sparkystav · June 6, 2008

Geoffers,

I'll try and measure the current on Monday when i get my meter from work.

But as far as i know theres no limiting resistor and the LED's are resistored in groups of three.

Stav

sparkystav · June 6, 2008

Still no news on what actual bit set alight.

I've personally fitted these things to my friends cars as welland i've seen them on eBay for other cars.

If theres fault i could do with knowing.

DJ Wozza · June 7, 2008

Can Mossyn take some pictures of the installation showing

also let us all know where they were sourced from,

how they were wired,

if a fuse was used,

what electrical connector was used (scotchlock, bullet, black tape etc)

and also wether they were in use,

or recently used,

how long they had been fitted for until this occurence,

the suggested reason for failure/fire

the list goes on.........

This will help other members, and let them recify the problem(s) before another unwanted occurance, &

educate members of the potential pitfalls, & make the decision as to keep them or remove them from their cars.

Good post Rob.

DJ Wozza · June 8, 2008

Time for a bump, any more information about this ?????

Gord · June 8, 2008

From what i have been told, and in part what i have found out myself, the lightbrows in question were purchased from Hyper Lighting (a company that has close ties/part run by a member on here with the user name Snowman - although he is not a registered trader). Their fitting directions suggest a direct scotch-lock connection into the sidelight feed and then its a case of adhering the LED strips in the desired location (firm putty, double sided foam tape etc etc).

I have been told that Snowman was told about this (fire hazard) back at the TDi meet last november 2007, but he said that the person did not know what he was on about :o Looks like the person was right this time B)

If i had a set. i would be sending them back asking for my money back, as your lexus could go up in smoke :o

Rob's Lexx · June 8, 2008

gord,

you are correct in what u have heard and i know who ur talking about. unfortunately, i get the feeling snowman won't wanna have anything to do with returns etc - he's not been on LOC for ages. The last i saw of him was when he was told off for suggestive trading regarding these light brows.....

redz_UK · June 8, 2008

From what i have been told, and in part what i have found out myself, the lightbrows in question were purchased from Hyper Lighting (a company that has close ties/part run by a member on here with the user name Snowman - although he is not a registered trader). Their fitting directions suggest a direct scotch-lock connection into the sidelight feed and then its a case of adhering the LED strips in the desired location (firm putty, double sided foam tape etc etc).

I have been told that Snowman was told about this (fire hazard) back at the TDi meet last november 2007, but he said that the person did not know what he was on about :o Looks like the person was right this time B)

If i had a set. i would be sending them back asking for my money back, as your lexus could go up in smoke :o

is this due to the heat of the headlights melting the plastics or the wiring??

Rob's Lexx · June 8, 2008

From what i have been told, and in part what i have found out myself, the lightbrows in question were purchased from Hyper Lighting (a company that has close ties/part run by a member on here with the user name Snowman - although he is not a registered trader). Their fitting directions suggest a direct scotch-lock connection into the sidelight feed and then its a case of adhering the LED strips in the desired location (firm putty, double sided foam tape etc etc).

I have been told that Snowman was told about this (fire hazard) back at the TDi meet last november 2007, but he said that the person did not know what he was on about :o Looks like the person was right this time B)

If i had a set. i would be sending them back asking for my money back, as your lexus could go up in smoke :o

is this due to the heat of the headlights melting the plastics or the wiring??

nah i doubt it matey. the headlights don't get that hot up at the top IIRC and the flow of air should also help keep things cool??

i see where ur coming from though mate.

If it were the case that the plastic type LED strip casing were to melt or similar, how could something occur so that a fire could start?? shorting of wires? destruction of diodes??

Gord · June 8, 2008

gord,
you are correct in what u have heard and i know who ur talking about. unfortunately, i get the feeling snowman won't wanna have anything to do with returns etc - he's not been on LOC for ages. The last i saw of him was when he was told off for suggestive trading regarding these light brows.....

Well thats just not right Rob He has known about the fire hazard, so should return anyones money as the goods just dont do what thay are intended for. Has anyone tryed to get there money back yet, that you know of

I have his phone number if anyone wanting it

DJ Wozza · June 8, 2008

I have it too, but have tried texting him and calling over the last few weeks leading up to the

WIM meet on an unconnected matter, but have had no reply or responce.

Parthiban · June 8, 2008

I have been told that Snowman was told about this (fire hazard) back at the TDi meet last november 2007, but he said that the person did not know what he was on about :o Looks like the person was right this time B)
If i had a set. i would be sending them back asking for my money back, as your lexus could go up in smoke :o

Do we know what the actual fire hazard is? Is it the LED strip itself, or the environment within the engine compartment that is to blame?

Rob's Lexx · June 8, 2008

gord,
you are correct in what u have heard and i know who ur talking about. unfortunately, i get the feeling snowman won't wanna have anything to do with returns etc - he's not been on LOC for ages. The last i saw of him was when he was told off for suggestive trading regarding these light brows.....

Well thats just not right Rob He has known about the fire hazard, so should return anyones money as the goods just dont do what thay are intended for. Has anyone tryed to get there money back yet, that you know of

I have his phone number if anyone wanting it

i haven't tried to contact him and the reason for that is (and i'm being quite correct here) that i wanted to gather any prior knowledge, opinions and evidence before i go in gung ho!!

I have to say that i'm surprised Yaumeister hasn't commented on this issue yet as he has a lot of snowmans stuff and is good friends with him i believe?? maybe he could ask him to show his face on the forum and we can maybe get to the bottom of this??

at the end of the day i appreciate i now know of a potential problem, and so if i keep them on the car then its a known risk i'm taking, but if i hadn't of heard about this and my car had burnt then i guarantee there would have been some serious ***** whooping!! so, in light of that and to protect any other unsuspecting buyers, we need to try and shed as much light on this as possible........

sparkystav · June 8, 2008

Be gettin myself a couple of quick blow fuses and holder from work tomorrow.

I like the mod and i'm gonna add a fuse to keep them but we still havent been told which bit exactly went up in flames.

Stav

Gord · June 8, 2008

gord,
you are correct in what u have heard and i know who ur talking about. unfortunately, i get the feeling snowman won't wanna have anything to do with returns etc - he's not been on LOC for ages. The last i saw of him was when he was told off for suggestive trading regarding these light brows.....

Well thats just not right Rob He has known about the fire hazard, so should return anyones money as the goods just dont do what thay are intended for. Has anyone tryed to get there money back yet, that you know of

I have his phone number if anyone wanting it

i haven't tried to contact him and the reason for that is (and i'm being quite correct here) that i wanted to gather any prior knowledge, opinions and evidence before i go in gung ho!!

I have to say that i'm surprised Yaumeister hasn't commented on this issue yet as he has a lot of snowmans stuff and is good friends with him i believe?? maybe he could ask him to show his face on the forum and we can maybe get to the bottom of this??

at the end of the day i appreciate i now know of a potential problem, and so if i keep them on the car then its a known risk i'm taking, but if i hadn't of heard about this and my car had burnt then i guarantee there would have been some serious ***** whooping!! so, in light of that and to protect any other unsuspecting buyers, we need to try and shed as much light on this as possible........

I think Yaumeister is having some sort of electical problems with his car I know Geoffers tryed to sort it @ the WIM meet, now im not sure, but i think it has something to do with what Snowman has fitted to Yaumeister car