Is200 Std Ecu

[SpOcK]

This is mainly for the guys @ TDI-PLC, but also anyone else in the know, please share your knowledge.

Does any one know for FACT, when under what circumstances does the IS200 std ecu run in closed loop and when in open loop? As it's a quite modern engine (at least engine management wise), I wouldn't be surprised if it ran in closed loop all the time.

As for a comparison I know for fact that e.g. VAG corporation's 1.8T engine runs in closed loop through out the rev range despite any other circumstance.

So IF IS200's ecu ever enters into the open loop, is it dependant of the throttle opening angle, revs, manifold pressure, what else? Is there any specific point that you can pin point, when the ecu enters in the open loop, or does it vary as the VVT-i system varies the cams timing constantly based on various inputs?

This would be crusial to know, as I've reserved a time for rolling road next wednesday. I've "upgraded" from eManage "blue" to eManage "Ultimate", and as they don't share the same format in setting files, I have to set it up again from scratch...

Someone PLEEEEASE throw me a bone...

EDIT: While at the dyno, I'm also trying to push the 300bhp limit...

[Fargo]

lots and lots of talk on this over on the is300.net

basically the consensus is that the ecu goes open loop at approx 3.5k rpm.

and its because of this that we have problems tuning the oem ecu as it simply relearns..

[ColinBarber]

open loop when cold or WOT and probably other times as well. Quite easy to tell, just get an OBD-II and go for a drive.

[SpOcK]

basically the consensus is that the ecu goes open loop at approx 3.5k rpm.

and its because of this that we have problems tuning the oem ecu as it simply relearns..

It may be 3.5k for IS300 (2JG-GE), but as IS200 is completely different engine, does anybody know whether this also applies to our 1G-FE?

And that relearning in specific IS my problem. I'm trying to find cure to overcome it. If i could force the std ecu to open loop, then I could do the mapping with eManage...

[SpOcK]

Anyone with facts?

There must be something more to it than just a certain rpm. I think it must be a some sort of combination of rpm, throttle opening %, manifold pressure, etc...?

Unfortunately I don't have access to an OBD-II reader...

TDI? Matt? Dave?

[gsportcars]

Hey spock,

unfortunately I haven't a clue about open/closed loop etc etc. but I would be intersted to see the results or the 300bhp barrier breaking as from what I remember you are running standard internals!!!!

Ps- would a stand alone ECU not cure all the problems of this open/closed loop???

[Dave-Ellen]

will ask my tech guy

[Fatbillslim]

As for a comparison I know for fact that e.g. VAG corporation's 1.8T engine runs in closed loop through out the rev range despite any other circumstance.

does it use a zrconia or titania lamba sensor or the new planer for this??

[SpOcK]

Hey spock,

unfortunately I haven't a clue about open/closed loop etc etc. but I would be intersted to see the results or the 300bhp barrier breaking as from what I remember you are running standard internals!!!!

Ps- would a stand alone ECU not cure all the problems of this open/closed loop???

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Last time it was dynoed, the output was 287bhp, so the 300bhp barrier isn't that far... :winky:

And it isn't the power that would be harmful for the internals, but the torque. As far as the torque doesn't get much higher, the 300bhp shouldn't be a problem. The biggest stress for the internals is at the peak torque rpm, cause that's where the "bang" towards the piston is the hardest. And as usually the peak torque rpm is much lower than the peak power rpm, the torque already starts to fall while the power output is still rising. And as we simultaneosly increase revs, the stress to the internals PER ENGINE REVOLUTION is smaller. Makes sense?

I've also read on this forum that this kind of power output figures shouldn't be possible with stock fuel system, stock injectors, stock fuel pump, stock fpr, etc. Also the stock clutch shouldn't take much more than 220-240bhp. I'm still running stock clutch - although I've already purchased Helix clutch (Thanks Dave! ;) ) - and at least for now, it hasn't slipped once.

And yes, stand-alone ecu would be answer to my problems, but as I have said before, I need to maintain the factory ecu because of the OBD-II. There still isn't an after market stand-alone ecu, which would include the OBD-II functionalities, and you can't pass the MOT in Finland with out the OBD. :tsktsk:

[SpOcK]

will ask my tech guy 

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Thank's Dave! That would be greatly appreciated! :)

[SpOcK]

does it use a zrconia or titania lamba sensor or the new planer for this??

It has a wide band O2-sensor (5-wires) as standard.

[ColinBarber]

just a shame the rest of the 1.8T engine is so unreliable!

[SpOcK]

will ask my tech guy 

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Any word of him?

[Dave-Ellen]

will ask my tech guy 

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Any word of him?

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not yet..........he's working on ad77's turbo conversion so cant be disturbed :D will be speaking to him tonight

[SpOcK]

not yet..........he's working on ad77's turbo conversion so cant be disturbed  :D will be speaking to him tonight

OK, Thanks mate! :)

[javadude]

Erm whats open and closed loop? Sorry :iraqi-info-minister:

[ColinBarber]

closed loop is when the ECU uses the results from the oxygen sensors in the exhaust to modify the air/fuel ratio to maintain the desired 14.7:1 ratio requried for the cats to work correctly.

open loop is when the oxygen sensors aren't used and the air/fuel ratio is based purely on input sensors (air temp, throttle position, air flow, engine temp etc.) and a preprogrammed map held within the ECU. As there is nothing checking the output the ECU has no way of knowing if the fuelling is actually correct.

open loop is used when the 14.7:1 ratio is not required. For example when the engine is cold or when it is hard accelerating, both of these require a richer mixture.

[javadude]

Thanks. Yay I understand now :D

[Dave-Ellen]

not yet..........he's working on ad77's turbo conversion so cant be disturbed  :D will be speaking to him tonight

OK, Thanks mate! :)

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HE CALLED AT 10.30 LAST NIGHT ON HIS WAY HOME after working all day

didnt think it wise to bother him as he was knackered... will speak today

Adie....tis going quite well :winky:

[Dave-Ellen]

you have a PM

[SpOcK]

you have a PM

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Thanks, Dave! Some :hocus-pokus: info there... I'm most grateful!

[Dave-Ellen]

Our pleasure Sami.

Hats off to you in what you are doing

Think you should come to JAE next year :D

[SpOcK]

Our pleasure Sami.

Hats off to you in what you are doing 

Think you should come to JAE next year  :D

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Thanks!

Be careful what you wish for, I just might... :winky:

It has crossed my mind, just have to know when it is, and have to get my holidays arranged accordingly.

I just checked my Micrcosoft AutoRoute. From where I live, it would be ~2100km drive to London only... Plus the ferries from Finland to Sweden, from Sweden to Denmark, from Denmark to Germany, and from France to UK... ;) And if, and when, JAE is held somewhere else than London, plus that.

So, not something you would do overnight...

[Dave-Ellen]

Our pleasure Sami.

Hats off to you in what you are doing 

Think you should come to JAE next year  :D

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Thanks!

Be careful what you wish for, I just might... :winky:

It has crossed my mind, just have to know when it is, and have to get my holidays arranged accordingly.

I just checked my Micrcosoft AutoRoute. From where I live, it would be ~2100km drive to London only... Plus the ferries from Finland to Sweden, from Sweden to Denmark, from Denmark to Germany, and from France to UK... ;) And if, and when, JAE is held somewhere else than London, plus that.

So, not something you would do overnight...

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you can get from sweden to england..............then its a 200 mile drive to the show ground :D

[aido]

Dave, can that info go into the public domain?

Just wondering if it's the sort of thing that would be useful for other people doing similar work?