Sheared Locking Nut.

toffee_pie · May 2, 2015

Guys,

not what i wanted to hear, the last garage who done my alloys looked to have over tightened a lock nut. Do I need to go to lexus to get this off? Can I get a lock nut elsewhere? I think the bolt still should be able to be taken off but my best bet is to get 4 new nuts and a new lock nut, probably generic ones.

omega1200 · May 2, 2015

look at machine mart they have some lock nut removers

steve2006 · May 2, 2015

Worst senario is build some weld up on the nut then hammer a socket over it and remove, idiots without a torque wrench eh!

toffee_pie · May 2, 2015

not pleased a bit about this, 100% sure the place who painted my alloys done this. Have I any come back on this? clearly they were the last people to put on the alloys.

I dont want the alloy damaged...

is200 Newbie · May 2, 2015

This has happened on two cars we have had - a Vauxhall and the last Lexus I had.and it like Steve said - its the idiots that put them on with the air hammers when putting the wheels back on.

I have just had two new tyres today and now always insist they don't use the air hammer to tighten the security nuts.

Both issues I have had where the locking nut has been put on too tight / seized has been resolved by a local garage where they took off the outer collar that turns freely and then hammering on a slightly smaller sized socket over the remaining nut then using a socket drive to remove them and both instances this has worked. They did not charge on both occasions (took them less than a minute to do and no damage whatsoever)

So - are the security nuts worth it .... it would certainly slow someone down that's trying to nick them but it would not stop them. So much so, when I had mine removed I just replaced them with a standard nut. These were both reputable security nuts (mcGuards if I remember rightly)

There are tools (sockets) available to remove the nuts (reverse threaded ones) available from Halfords but I believe they are quite brittle and don't get a good grip on the nut itself.

toffee_pie · May 2, 2015

that is brutal, I am taking it to the body shop i was at last on Tuesday morning but dont see how that place can get it off?

Both issues I have had where the locking nut has been put on too tight / seized has been resolved by a local garage where they took off the outer collar that turns freely and then hammering on a slightly smaller sized socket over the remaining nut then using a socket drive to remove them and both instances this has worked. They did not charge on both occasions (took them less than a minute to do and no damage whatsoever)

can you explain that for me? I dont see how i can get access to this nut, its recessed quite deep and i dont see a part that freely turns?

toffee_pie · May 2, 2015

will this work?

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/locking-wheel-nut-remover-2pc?da=1&TC=GS-040223291

is200 Newbie · May 2, 2015

The link points to the correct sockets I mentioned (I think they usually give you two sizes in the pack)

In order to use these correctly you will need to remove the outer casing on the security nut - in all cases (anyone correct me if I am wrong) the outer casing will spin freely which acts as a deterrent to anyone just coming along and fitting anything over the nut to remove it. If they managed to fit "something" over the nut without this casing removed then the "something" would just spin with no grip at all and it will not loosen the nut.

To remove the outer casing so you can get to the nut itself (so you can use this nut removal socket in the link) there are a couple of approaches to do this.

In both cases tighten up all the remaining 4 nuts - use a bit of WD40 on them for good measure. WD40 on the security nut also. In doing this you are taking a bit of pressure off the security nut. the WD40 is just an aid in getting them off easier when you are done with the security nut.

1/ You can use a good punch and hammer. Locate the punch on the small gap between the collar and the nut and hammer it into the nut creating a gap between the collar and nut. As you get a bit deeper into the nut then the collar will split and you can remove it with a pair of pliers. You will need to use one of the removal sockets then - reverse thread but they are hard to get on as they are of a hard metal and so is the nut on the wheel. Sometimes the sockets will crack depending on how tight the nut has been put on the wheel. Ideally they need to be put on the nut with an air hammer as its hard to get the thread going - the alternative id to hammer the socket while turning at the same time (a bit tricky)

2/ Probably the easier of the two options - use a small dremmel type of drill and drill a hole between the collar and nut - once you are in deep enough the collar will either split itself off, if not it will easily come off if you use the punch and hammer a few times. Use the removal socket as described.

The metal on these nuts is quite hard so a lot of patience is required but once you are into the gap between the nut and casing a bit then it should split easily - doing it yourself will ensure care is taken to remove the nut - give it to a garage you don't trust then they will get it off for you but possibly damage the wheel. In my experiences they have known what they were doing (one garage said it was a common problem) both garages removed mine with no damage at all.

DO NOT ... use your security nut socket and try to force the nut off as you may strip the security pattern on the socket and this will result in you not being able to remove the nut from the other 3 wheels. It you have been using it to try to take this nut off then it would be a good idea to try and take the other 3 nuts off before you try and destroy the seized one. If the security socket is a bit damaged and cant remove any of the other 3 nuts then I would recommend you take it to a garage to remove them but supervise the removal.

Either way if you are still wanting to use a set of security nuts then you will need to buy a new set and change all 4 or just change the one and keep the two sockets. (it would be easier and less hassle to change all 4)

Good Luck

toffee_pie · May 2, 2015

I am going back to the body shop tuesday, this does not sound good. I had no issue with my lock nut before, wtf were they doing.

Steve_M · May 2, 2015

Impact socket ( slightly smaller than the collar, short extension and a wrench. Don't bother taking the collar off, just smack the socket on ( the collar will collapse ) then with the extension bar and wrench you can remove the nut/bolt. you may find you need a breaker bar rather than a wrench.

toffee_pie · May 2, 2015

a guy at kwik fit spent about 10 minutes at it, no joy. Part of the lug nut pattern is broken now, he used a long reach wrench to take it off, he said it was flopping at an angle and was worn. He tried to remove it keeping it horizontal with the aid of a jack.

He also put on some other lock nut (universal lock nut key?) and that did not work.

Cant do much now short of visiting that body shop first thing tuesday.

I think i should be able to get it off with another lug nut key as this is totally goosed, how can i get a key? I have no id or anything on my log book/manuals

ROYT · May 3, 2015

There doesn't look enough depth to it to get a decent grip of it.

I would get it as flat as poss. and weld from the centre the biggest nut I could get in, making sure

there was enough room to get the socket on.

A 3ft breaker bar would get it off then.

toffee_pie · May 3, 2015

can you explain further what you mean by weld? I am going to have to call lexus tuesday morning, not looking forward to it! i need a replacement lock key.

ROYT · May 3, 2015

Find an independant mechanic who can weld.

MIG is popular and will do this job, anyone who can MIG weld can do this.

Welding will melt the two parts together if done right and then a long bar and socket will undo it.

toffee_pie · May 3, 2015

you mean welding the stuck bolt onto the lock bolt? dont see how there is much room to do this? plus my allow probably get destroyed?!

ROYT · May 3, 2015

No, you weld a nut to the exposed damaged lockbolt,[if it's locknut and not a lockbolt is done just the same] then using a socket and long bar undo it normally.

There should be no damage to the alloy wheel.

toffee_pie · May 3, 2015

You will need to shape and mould the bolt though? seems tricky?

toffee_pie · May 3, 2015

would this work?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/laser-emergency-locking-wheel-nut-remover-set-4-pieces/94826

hope for a smooth solution to this! have brakes and pads to put on later in the week.

toffee_pie · May 3, 2015

in the meantime i got these as once i get that nut off, all the rest of them go.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Set-of-4-Locking-Wheels-Nuts-Bolts-Lugs-Locks-for-LEXUS-IS-250-M12-x-1-5-UM115-/181314305412?

jumbojake · May 3, 2015

I had the same problem on my old Avensis, just the same ... I struggled at home, then figured my friendly local tyre dealer would come across this all the time.

no problem they said.... two blokes, one with a socket and the original key held in place and the other with a big hammer.... job done ... all 4 wheels no charge!!

(and I bought new locking nuts very similar to the ones you have chosen!)

steveledzep · May 3, 2015

in the meantime i got these as once i get that nut off, all the rest of them go.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Set-of-4-Locking-Wheels-Nuts-Bolts-Lugs-Locks-for-LEXUS-IS-250-M12-x-1-5-UM115-/181314305412?

I bought the same ones Eric. I was fed up of the Lexus locking nut spoiling the look of the wheel. The ones you have bought look superb, all five nuts matching !

When I bought mine, I set about swapping them over and that's when the zig-zaggy bit on the key sheered off ! My local tyre shop solved it for me very quickly. As i am a regular customer for tyres and MoTs too, there was no charge.

toffee_pie · May 3, 2015

will that screw fit box set of bits do do you think? really need that damn thing off asap...!

toffee_pie · May 4, 2015

these wont do

http://www.halfords.com/motoring-travel/tools-diy/tools-tool-kits/laser-locking-wheel-nut-remover

these wont do either it seems

http://www.halfords.com/motoring-travel/tools-diy/tools-tool-kits/laser-6-piece-screw-extractor-set

I am going to have to get onto Lexus it seems, brutal. Dont even want to keep these stupid lock nuts.

ROYT · May 4, 2015

A few years ago I bought a write off SLK [panel and bonnet damage] also with the same problem and

the Laser ones did the job although I had to turn one down in a lathe as it was a few thou too big on the outside.

Looks like the later ones are already done.

They worked because there was a decent amount of the lugbolt protruding to wind on for a tight fit.

From your picture there doesn't seem to be enough of the nut protruding to get a good grip with this type of tool.

If this is the case I would chisel off the wavy bits left and weld a nut on.

Any competent welder can do this, the only risk, if carelessly done, is welding the nut to the wheel stud.

toffee_pie · May 4, 2015

my lock nut key is broken anyway, whatever thread was left is gone now. It was already f***d.! what do you mean by weld a nut onto this, i dont see how a nut can adhere to the threads of the key on the wheel, i need to shape it to the pattern? might be missing something here!