Would The Is300H Work For Me

Anaplian · April 12, 2015

Hi,

I'm considering the purchase of an IS300h and would interested in knowing if it work make sense for me in terms of fuel economy.

My current commute is an 80 mile round trip on a mixture of mostly A roads with also a little motorway. My current car is a 2006 VW Passat 2l diesel. If I drive to the national speed limits then I get around 50mpg out of the Passat.

Obviously the IS300h is a *much* nicer place to spend two hours per day in than the Passat - but would I save any money on fuel?

Thanks,

Julian.

rayaans · April 12, 2015

It varies upon your driving style but at 70mph on a motorway id say 45mpg is manageable in the F-Sport and Premier models. About 50mpg should be achievable in the versions with narrower tyres. Some have got more! Best thing to do, take one an an extended test drive and see if there is any difference.

I doubt you'd save money on fuel itself but if the car is a company car you'd be saving a lot in BIK and road tax which is only £0-20 depending on which spec you go for.

Anaplian · April 13, 2015

Thanks, that's what I feared. When I bought the Passat around 8 years ago I said to myself, "I'll run this car into the ground and by the time at which that happens hybrid or electric cars will be mainstream and I won't need to buy another wholly petrol or diesel car".

It seems that we're not quite there yet. Perhaps the next-gen plug-in Prius or the plug-in Passat will be the tipping point for me.

Macscrooge · April 13, 2015

You'll probably not save on fuel - though you should at least break even. You will have a nicer journey though.

ganzoom · April 14, 2015

As others said if your doing long distance commutes diesel is sadly still king.

Even plug-in hybrids don't reat return good mpg when you have to rely on the ICE engine. The Audi A3 e-tron has a claimed 140mpg, but when you deplet the Battery (30 miles EV range), and use the ICE, the mpg falls as low as 34!!

http://m.caranddriver.com/audi/a3-e-tron

The BMW i3 range extender is similar, claimed 120 mpg, but if you deplete the 80 mile EV charge and need to use the ICE, real life mpg is no more than 40 :(

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/i3

In my expericene of owing an all electric Leaf, a IS300h, and having recently spent 18 months commuting in 100 miles a day in a Civic diesel. If I was still doing 100 miles a day commuting I would be ordering a Tesla S.

The new 'basic' model has a list price of £55k, which is a lot, but list price for our Premiere Spec IS300H with the Lexus safety kit was around £41k. Given the Tesla has 100bhp more the premium over the IS300H is not horrendous. Tesla are making decent sales in the UK, I've seen two driving around where I live, so in 24 months time I expect used one to appear at a decent discount over new price.

So if you hold off buying now, I think your desire to own a hybrid/EV car that will offer you better mpg than a diesel on long M ways commute may be meet.....However if your commute is only 80 miles, a range extenderi3 may get you by on EV power alone, with the added safety of an ICE back up, i3 residuals are predicted to be 30% at 3 years, so worth having a look at a used one :)

Here's a 2 year old one, range extender, less than 10k on the clock, cheaper than a new IS300H....Don't you just love depreciation!!

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/i3/i3-hatchback-range-extender-5dr-auto/3925288

dochybrid · April 14, 2015

Echoing what others have already said..

With hybrid your driving style would be a key thing, am able to get 50-53 on combined motorway on A road, by sticking to the legal speed limits

Is300h has a bigger engine and anything around/above 50 mpg is really good, alternate choice could be CT200h, again with driving you should be able to get late 50s or up to 60 in terms of mpg..

All the best

Anaplian · April 14, 2015

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I must say that it's refreshing to come to a manufacturer-specific forum and receive such balanced advice.

I think that the most sensible thing I can do is to keep the Passat a little longer. The i3 is a little small for me but otherwise seems a pretty good fit for my commute. My ideal car would be a Tesla - great range and great performance. It's a shame that it's currently out of my price range - but that is a short-term problem.

If my Passat becomes too expensive to keep on the road in the short-term then I'll probably get an IS300h. I suspect that if I drive am IS300h as gently as I drive the Passat then, as others have suggested, I'd end up in the same ballpark MPG wise. It's true that a more modern diesel would be more efficient than both my Passat and the IS300h for my usage - however purchasing decisions are not always purely about cost - hybrids and EVs *feel* much more like what modern cars should be like. In comparison straight diesel and petrol cars seem dated and to belong to an earlier age.

ganzoom · April 14, 2015

It's true that a more modern diesel would be more efficient than both my Passat and the IS300h for my usage - however purchasing decisions are not always purely about cost - hybrids and EVs *feel* much more like what modern cars should be like. In comparison straight diesel and petrol cars seem dated and to belong to an earlier age.

Our IS300H replaced a Civic diesel, which was almost just as economical. But the racket it made was horrible, the fact I had to put with the noise of the engine rattling away for unto 3 hours a day for nearly 2 years was one of the reason I couldn't wait to get rid of it, despite it been ultra-reliable, and costing very little to run.

The only reason I ended up looking at the Nissan Leaf, was because I loved the refinement of the IS300H's EV mode so much :)

ganzoom · April 14, 2015

The other good range extender is the Vauxhall Ampera.

I know it's Vauxhall, and cost over £30K new, but it looks pretty cool, and I suspect their used prices will be quite low now??

rayaans · April 14, 2015

The other good range extender is the Vauxhall Ampera.

I know it's Vauxhall, and cost over £30K new, but it looks pretty cool, and I suspect their used prices will be quite low now??

Got to say that front bumper looks seriously close to the ground.....

Anaplian · April 15, 2015

I had assumed that I'd need to buy a second-hand car if I bought an IS300h. However, despite not being on the list it looks like I could get one as a company car. Yay.

Unfortunately after having played with the configurator on the Lexus site it seems that I can't get adaptive cruise control (as part of Advanced Safety Pack) with getting the top model and then buying it as a 1500 quid option. I'm quite shocked tbh. Think that may be a deal breaker for me. Lexus are forcing buyers to pay over 10K over the base model to get *safety* features. That leaves a bad taste.

rayaans · April 15, 2015

I had assumed that I'd need to buy a second-hand car if I bought an IS300h. However, despite not being on the list it looks like I could get one as a company car. Yay.

Unfortunately after having played with the configurator on the Lexus site it seems that I can't get adaptive cruise control (as part of Advanced Safety Pack) with getting the top model and then buying it as a 1500 quid option. I'm quite shocked tbh. Think that may be a deal breaker for me. Lexus are forcing buyers to pay over 10K over the base model to get *safety* features. That leaves a bad taste.

Safety features are being released on all models later in the year I think.

Anaplian · April 15, 2015

I had assumed that I'd need to buy a second-hand car if I bought an IS300h. However, despite not being on the list it looks like I could get one as a company car. Yay.

Unfortunately after having played with the configurator on the Lexus site it seems that I can't get adaptive cruise control (as part of Advanced Safety Pack) with getting the top model and then buying it as a 1500 quid option. I'm quite shocked tbh. Think that may be a deal breaker for me. Lexus are forcing buyers to pay over 10K over the base model to get *safety* features. That leaves a bad taste.

Safety features are being released on all models later in the year I think.

Cool. That's good to know. Is that a rumour or something more solid?

ganzoom · April 15, 2015

I think Lexus, been cheap and not offering the safety featuers as a option really needs to change ASAP. You can spec a Ford Fiesta with pre-crash warning system for £500, and Mercedes includes with basic spec on the C class.

The adaptive cruise control is different though, most brands charge a decent premium for it. But it's annoying on the IS300H you have to for the premier spec. If you look at the second market, hardly any premier spec cars have the addtional saftey kit added....Which is why we were 'forced' to buy a brand premier just so we could add the safety pack. I suppose the other way to look at it, is Lexus have figuered out the marketing game well, and earning a decent profit on anyone stupid enough to want the safety kit (like me :))

noby76 · April 15, 2015

Not sure how buying a tesla s at a cost of £55 works out a better deal that the £41K IS300h. this is a whopping £14,000 difference in savings. one could argue Tesla has 110hp more, a 3 second advantage and an extra 15mph top end speed than the IS300h but is this advantage worth paying an extra £14,000?

IS300h still works out cheaper to run over say a 4 year period when compared to the Tesla .a £41k IS including the safety kit with a 4 year service of 2 interim and 2 full services will total around £42,500. A £55k Tesla with a 4 year prepaid service of £1800 will total £56,800 this is a difference of £14,300

The OP confirmed he does an 80mile trip every day and IS300h F sport has been stated to have a combined mpg figure of just over 61mpg lets say lexus was over optimistic by 15mpg(which I doubt) and the real world mpg is actually 45mpg for combined driving, this works out at around £9.12 to drive
80miles a day at 112.9p per litre of fuel. So around £182 per month or £2188 per year. So fuelling the IS300h over 4 years works out £8,752 considering one saved £14,300 initally, by subtracting the cost of fuel from this figure still leaves a change of around £5500. Ok road tax for 4 years on IS300h works out £80 this is still £5400 savings of driving the IS over the tesla for 4 years

These figure do not include the cost of fitting and charging the tesla over 4 years which means the savings will even be more once this has been factored in.Will the Tesla be more fun to drive in terms of performance? Absolutely but if its performance one is looking for then 450h f sport has this. I also like to hear the sound of an engine/exhaust be it I4 or V8 when I put my foot down Tesla doesn’t do this which in my opinion will make it boring after a while.

Toyota’s hybrid systems has been tried and tested for years so one can be guaranteed their reliability. Tesla I am not so sure about as its still relatively new. I have seen a few vids of the Tesla interior and I recon the IS interior is way better.

Will electric cars become the future one day? Well not until oil companies go out of business which is not any time soon. Petrol/hybrids will also be easy to live with and less of a hassle as one could literally fill up at any petrol station. With tesla you have to ‘plan’ you journeys carefully always making sure there is enough charge. Charge points are increasing but petrol stations still dwarfs them not to mention the time taking to charge the vehicle when one can drive in fill up and drive out in less than 5 minutes. So in this day and age I would pick an ICE over EV for convenience.

I personally think if one really wants to save money on running a car, then buying brand new doesn’t make sense. A 3-5 year old approved used makes sense since most of the deprecation has already taken place, most manufacture models run for a minimum 5 years before a newer model gets released so with a private number plate, no one can tell the difference.

e.g 3 year old GS450h’s with less than 30,000 miles are going for less than £22K on autotrader running these over a 4 year period will work out cheaper than leasing and running a 15 plate £41K IS300h over the same period of time.. just my 2 cents

ganzoom · April 15, 2015

The OP made no mention about saving money. It's common knowledge running a old banger into the ground is the cheapest way to get from A to B.

Regarding paying £14K for a better 0-60 time etc...

A £30K BMW 320D will do 0-60 in around 8 seconds

A £40K BMW 335i will do 0-60 in around 5 seconds

A £56K BMW M3 will do 0-60 in around 4.2 seconds.

So your paying about £7K for every 1 second drop in the 0-60 sprint....Your 100% correct, only idiots with no common sense would waste that kind of money for such tiny performance gains, hence why the 320D outsells the 335i/M3 combined x100 over.....But there are some idiots (my self included ) who are willing to pay for the extra performance.

I choose to look at it in a different way...

A £80K Tesla P85D with 691bhp will do 0-60 in 3.1 seconds.

A £200K Ferrari 458 Spider will do 0-60 in 3.3 seconds.

A £££ McLaren F1 will do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds.

A ££££ Ferrari Enzo will match the P85D to 60, at 3.1 seconds.

A £££££ Bugatti Veyron is quicker to 0-60 2.7 seconds.

Though all of these cars are stupidly expensive, and most people can only every dream of sitting in one, let alone own or drive one.....With the magic of depreciation, I suspect some people on this forum may well have the funds to access at least one of those cars in 3 years time, as well as actually consider running one as a day to day family car.....A Tesla 70D may be expensive compared to the IS300H, but a P85D is probably the bargain of the century given its performance potential ..... Well that's the line I'm trying to convince the wife with

ColinBarber · April 15, 2015

I choose to look at it in a different way...

A £80K Tesla P85D with 691bhp will do 0-60 in 3.1 seconds.

A £200K Ferrari 458 Spider will do 0-60 in 3.3 seconds.

A £££ McLaren F1 will do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds.

A ££££ Ferrari Enzo will match the P85D to 60, at 3.1 seconds.

A £££££ Bugatti Veyron is quicker to 0-60 2.7 seconds.

...A Tesla 70D may be expensive compared to the IS300H, but a P85D is probably the bargain of the century given its performance potential ..... Well that's the line I'm trying to convince the wife with

All the Telsa S has is straightline performance. It's too heavy with poor handling compared to your examples. Bargain of the century = Nissan GT-R in my book.

noby76 · April 15, 2015

Colin just beat me to it.. not forgetting 0-60 figures does not tell the whole story when it comes to performance of a car but sure does sell cars. i can name you fwd cars which will hit 0-60 in twice the time with under half the power figures which cost less than 20% of the exotic cars listed above which will wipe the floor with all of them at most places except drag races.

i also read the tesla can only handle spirited driving for short durations only any more and they result in limp mode to preserve the batteries. which begs the question why give me 600bhp when i can only use it moderately??

either way one looks at it the IS300h works out a better deal in terms of running cost when compared to the cheapest tesla in the market and will offer better convenience as a whole and if i wanted 5.2 secs performance then the 450h is not far off wilst the tesla driver goes into limp mode after few spirited runs..

ganzoom · April 15, 2015

I've own a Honda Integra Type R for 12 months, and to this day on the right road, nothing else I've owned comes close in terms of pure driver engagement (but it was rubbish the rest of the time). So I know what I want/expect from a performance car.

I've also looked seriously at getting a GTR (I have owned a 350Z after all) but realistically your looking at £1k/month on running costs....so it maybe cheapish to buy, you need very deep pockets to keep one on the road....Sadly it's the same story with the M5, not that expensive to buy, but running costs equivalent to a small mortgage.

Personally I don't see the IS300H as a 'sporty' car at all. It's an amazingly refined way for transportation, much like the Leaf :)

Things like the 450H and Infinit Q50 are interesting, but I don't see the point of spending my cash on a half EV when the Tesla offers so much more.

Anyways, this is getting very off topic, and I suspect the OP has no interest in any of this info :)

Anaplian · April 22, 2015

OP here. I went to a few car dealerships yesterday - Lexus, Audi, VW and Skoda. I realise that the Lexus brand's principal competitors are primarily Audi, BMW and Mercedes however said dealerships were convenient geographically.

I was pretty unimpressed by the cabin of the Audi - it seems to have lost the stark but high-quality utilitarianism which I used to love about the brand. The new Passat was very good inside and seems to have got a lot better from the version which I drive. Surprisingly the Octavia was also relatively good. The deliniation of the interiors of Audi, VW and Skoda seems quite blurry and hard to define.

So, what about the IS300h? It seemed to be higher quality than the A4. However, it felt quite dark and a little cramped. This may just be me being used to driving a bigger car. The boot also seemed quite small and interior rear legroom was not as good (obviously).

At the moment I'm on the fence between a new Passat (2l diesel, DSG) and an IS300h. Both are in the same ballpark cost-wise. The Passat is roomier, has adaptive cruise control and is probably more fuel efficient. The IS300h is higher-quality, is probably more fun to drive, although it's similar fuel consumption wise to the Passat but is also a hybrid. Head says Passat, heart says IS300h.

I've submitted an on-line request for a test drive of the Lexus. One question - is a Lexus dealer likely to be less helpful if he knows that I would be getting a company car? On the one hand it wouldn't be bought through the dealer, on the other hand it would be sensible for Lexus to incentivise its dealer network to promote non-dealer Lexus sales.

ganzoom · April 22, 2015

At the moment I'm on the fence between a new Passat (2l diesel, DSG) and an IS300h. Both are in the same ballpark cost-wise. The Passat is roomier, has adaptive cruise control and is probably more fuel efficient. The IS300h is higher-quality, is probably more fun to drive, although it's similar fuel consumption wise to the Passat but is also a hybrid. Head says Passat, heart says IS300h.

I would strongly reccomend taking the IS300H home for an 24-48hr test drive. When we were looking at car last Decemeber our local Lexus dealer pretty much threw the keys at us with no questions asked...It clearly worked, because after 24hrs of seeing the Lexus on the driveway, and having lots of comments from neightbours/friends about how smart it looked, the decision was a no-brainer.

For me one of the key features of the Lexus is it's reifnement, I honestly cannot see how a 2l Turbo diesel can come anywhere near the same level of quitness/smoothness the Lexus offer in town/urban speeds. Infact at 20-30mph, when just getting around town, the Lexus is no-more noisy than my FULLY ELECTRIC Nissn Leaf. It's only when you mash the throttle your reminded it's still powered by the dinosour that is the ICE.

Scoops · April 22, 2015

Having just got an IS300h as a lease car (on a business lease) I didn't experience any difference in service from the dealership and certainly not like a Mercedes dealer I once visited you simply weren't interested when I said it was going to be a business lease. You may want to try and see if Lexus Finance will match the price from your leasing company if the source of the dealer is flexible, the did with me.

To echo the point above, get the keys to a car for a weekend or 24 hours at least. Never had an issue getting a test drive with no questions asked. The 'cramped' cabin may be down to the design which is designed to wrap around you somewhat - I prefer that cocooned feeling.

Anaplian · April 23, 2015

IS300h test drive is booked for Friday

Currently trying to decide between the Executive and the Premier with the Advanced Safety Pack. I could get the Executive on my company car plan with no additional funding (well, only £13). The Premier + ASP would be £168 per month extra. The question I need to ask myself is are the extra safety options on the more expensive version worth the cost? The ML stereo and seats with lumbar support are also appealing and I do spend > 2 hours per day in my car. Man logic - can't be beat.

DJP · April 23, 2015

Julian, I imagine you'll get a variety of answers depending on the individual preferences. Personally, having had the ML on my old 250 and not in the 300 I wouldn't bother, but then again I listen mainly to talk radio rather than music. However, for me, the music quality is plenty good enough. Mind you, Mrs DJP reckons I'm deaf anyway!

Decent seats would be a must but £168 is quite a chunk......

Look forward to the conclusion!

Scoops · April 23, 2015

Well it depends doesn't it. I have an Exec but had the Premier for the weekend before I got it. Firstly the money, £168 is nothing for a car if that includes all your maintenance etc. which I assume it will seeing as it is a company car. If you can afford it (especially if you were paying something like that before) then I would go for it. For me the price difference was just too much between the two but if I could have afforded it I would have.

As far as the actual equipment goes you are getting a lot more for your money. The premium nav comes with better traffic, online connectivity (although I question the real value of that other than traffic), the reversing camera and parking assist which I found was bloody good on the CT I had previously, better integration than the exec, voice control across many of the car functions like picking your track on your Iphone, having your texts read out to you, having the nav show on the smaller instrument display, splitting the main screen to show different functions and so on. Factor in all the additional safety equipment (which should be standard nowadays) especially with the blind spot for the motorways etc. and I think it is good value.

You are spending a long time in the car and you want to be happy there. The seats are more adjustable and ventilated as well as having the easy entry system although make sure you don't have an adult behind you when you undo the seatbelt! Unlike DJP I listen to Spotify all the time and I thought the ML sound system was fantastic - it even made the Frozen soundtrack sound good! I can imagine some not liking the way it splits your music across the various channels but I would have it in an instant. Having said that - the standard sound system is actually pretty decent and just as good as the upgraded sound pack that was in the CT although it can't do surround sound of course. I would go to the dealer and have a listen.

If comfort is your main priority though what about the new advance trim. Effectively the Exec with the heated/vented seats and parking camera? Would be a good compromise as it still has all you need and will have the great ride you get on the 17s. Apart from looks, the Premier doesn't gain anything from the bigger wheels and wider tyres..

I wouldn't put you off the Exec by the way. It is a great car and the nav is simple enough to use as well as the rest of the bits with the rotary dial rather than the remote touch. It is just a bit more simple from a tech perspective.

I don't know if any of that helps but it will be interesting to hear what you go for!