Anyone Checked Out Infiniti Q50?

[ganzoom]

That is a lot cheaper. Clearly the longer the range and shorter the charge time the more realistic an option they will become for people. Can't help but feel people would be put out if I asked to use their power to charge my car.

Come on, your releationship with your folks cannot be so bad they wouldn't let you use <£10 of their electricity overnight :D

But more seriously your right about range and charge time for ture long distance (300 miles + trips). The current Tesla Superchargers deliver electricty at 120KW, they have just released an update to the cables to make them water cooled, so in theory that power rating can be upped to 150KW and may be beyond.

Apparently in Calforina there are tax incentives for car compaines for each non-petrol/diesel car that can be refuelled/charged at a rate of 100miles per 10 minutes. Which is why I think hydrogen fuel cell cars gets a bigger federal grant. Tesla superchargers are now getting close to this target - If Tesla superchargers can get to 180KW of power, that will be 100 miles of range in 10 minutes....which really is very very quick. Bare in mind, my Leaf can only rapid charge at 50KW....

Better Battery tech is coming but likely to be 5 years + away from actual production, the main advances now is driving down the price of the lithium ion packs. Tesla have shown enough lithium ion technology is good enough already for 300 miles of real life range, and the packs are lasting very well - Real life drop in range due to Battery degredation is something like less than 10% at 100K, which is good enough for 99% of buyers. Even at 90% Battery life a Model S still has 250miles of real life range.

Home charging is never going to be quicker than 7KW, mainly due to domestic supplies, but given the fact most peoples cars spend 10hrs+ a day parked up on their driveway, slower charge rate at home is not a issue. Lighter weight will help to improve range by increasing effieceny.....It's all very exciting technology, and been developed much faster than most people realise. If your in the market for a £50k+ saloon/Suv and sit down and do the sums, it's almost a "no-brainer" to spend your cash on a Tesla rather than a Merc/BMW/Audi/Lexus....Which is what I did about 6 months ago, and hence sold my BMW for a Leaf, whilst saving up for a Tesla.

The sales figuers speak for themselves, Tesla is selling the Model S as quickly as they can build them, and in the US they are out-selling the Leaf, which is about 1/3 of the price. The Model X SUV is due to be delivered by the end of Sep, apparently it's even more impressive than the Model S, I really think it's going to dominate the SUV sector. £50-80K is alot to pay for a saloon, but not for a premium SUV. Why would would you choose to drop your kids off in school in a £70K Range Rover that does 20-30mpg, cost ££££ to tax, whilst pumping out lots nasty chemicles (think of the childern), when for £70K you can have a Model X which will be quicker, quiter, much much cheaper to run, emission 'free' and SAFER (The Model S BROKE the US crash testing equipment when they try to crush it when it was upside, at 4G the Model S shell was still in tact !!) .

It'll be interesting to see how established brands react to the Model X, whilst I'm sure BMW/Audi don't really care about lossing M5/RS6 sales to Tesla, if the Model X starts eatting into the cash cows that are the likes of the X5/Q5/Range Rover Sport, they will have to react very quickly.

[lee789]

I'd be really surprised if the Tesla S gets close 3.5 miles/KWH in the real world, and especially on UK stop/start roads. My wife drives a Leaf, and the most we get is around 75 miles per charge in mixed driving. although we used to achieve nearer 90 mile before the morons at my local Nissan garage did an unrequested update to the software. Volvo reckon 3 miles per KWH is achievable from their V60, but I've found that 2.25 is a much more realistic figure. I will be really interested to read your reports on the Tesla, because I have considered it myself, but I'm rather wary of long term reliability, manufacturer support here in the UK, and residuals.

[ganzoom]

Ofcourse efficency is how you drive it...I can also get close to 70mpg from the IS300H in the current weather, 65mpg is easy. At the same time I've managed to use up 20% of charge on the Leaf so about 4 kWh in just 10 miles on a 'spirted run'. On the way back from the peak district this weekend I dropped a few people of on the way down, 88 miles covered still had 18 miles showing on the range-o-meter. So a true 5 miles / kWh efficency. The Model S apprently uses less energy at M-way speeds than the Leaf due to better aerodynamic, I reckon I could get 4.5 miles / kWh out of one on a M-way run :)

The Model S and Leaf have both been on sale for a while now, and given the inherent reliabilty of the electric motor I cannot see any major issues aside from Battery degredation which appear to be quite predicatble and better than even what Tesla/Nissan have predicted.

Residuals are a different matter....Used Model S's are now appearing on Autotrader for less then £60K, given these were £80K+ optioned up that's pretty hefy deprecitation in 12 months. As for the Leaf, if you own one your know how awful the depreciation is, but mine is on lease so not an issue.

Will be good to hear how the OP find the Model S test drive, I'm avoiding even sitting in one till I'm ready to buy, the temptation would just be too much for me :D

[lee789]

lol....Yeah, the Leaf has the aerodynamics of a breeze block, and the same residuals. Super little car though, and a pity they didn't fit it with something like a 1L back up petrol engine to extend the range.

[Roscobbc]

Based on my research to date, which is no more than reading a few reviews, I'm likely to be blown away by the acceleration and in particular the immediacy of it. The fact that using it to any great extend is hugely limited is one of the reasons I didn't buy something like the Audi R's or an ISF. I knew I'd get incredibly frustrated at horribly low mpg for most of my driving and having all that power just aching to be released. I remember a colleague used to have a BMW 540 and it was a nightmare to drive, it just wasn't designed to be driven around town/suburbia.

The beauty of the Tesla, from what I can tell so far, is I can waft around for next to nothing most of the time, and then experience some mind blowing acceleration when the opportunity arises.

I don't normally look forward to visiting the likes of Westfield, but tomorrow will be an exception. I wonder what I will think of its lines and interior, given how superb I think the IS300h F Sport looks? I'll be sure to report back!

The 'thing' with torque (and the Tesla by design has 'oodles' of it - is that it is a deceiving characteristic. I.e the car with a 'flat' torque' curve (which is what a Tesla will have) will never actually feel that 'fast' on its own. You will need to go up against something with a equally powerful conventional powertrain to get a proper comparison - and even then the Tesla will have linear acceleration whereas the other vehicle (even with auto transmission) will have 'peaks and troughs' in it power delivery.

[ganzoom]

The 'thing' with torque (and the Tesla by design has 'oodles' of it - is that it is a deceiving characteristic. I.e the car with a 'flat' torque' curve (which is what a Tesla will have) will never actually feel that 'fast' on its own.

Have you actually driven any EV?? My Leaf has a rubbish 0-60 time, but instant torque, completely linear power delivery, and a total lack of noise makes it 'feel' faster my than old modified BMW 335i which was dynode at 380bhp.

This is a great review of the Tesla, the final conclusion by the reviewer sums up my view on the Model S....A Tesla costs stupid amount of money to buy, but the Model S is SO GOOD, the money is just a obstacle to overcome...and if your already driving a Lexus than your probably in a lucky enough to be in position to overcome that obstacle easier/quicker than many others. Which might explain why even a green left wing fanatic like Robert Llewellyn has justified buying a 370bhp luxury saloon despite his very public hatred of 'big pointless' cars like BMW/Merc etc.

[Martin F]

Ganzoom - I think you've convinced yourself :)

On another note, has anybody ever driven one of those infiniti cars? :D

[Funkyboy]

Ganzoom - I think you've convinced yourself :)

On another note, has anybody ever driven one of those infiniti cars? :D

I had a Q70 for a long weekend test drive (if you call them they go out their way to let you have one for a reasonable amount of time)

It takes a bit of getting use to. I was travelling down the motorway when the engine switches off and it runs on Battery for a couple of miles then engine cuts back in as Battery depletes. Very nice inside with every toy as standard. Very fast 0-60 in 5.6. Has a real growl when you accelerate. It is a quality car and for the price of a nearly new one you can't go wrong. Call your nearest dealer and try one

[DJP]

Ganzoom - I think you've convinced yourself :)

On another note, has anybody ever driven one of those infiniti cars? :D

I had a Q70 for a long weekend test drive (if you call them they go out their way to let you have one for a reasonable amount of time)

It takes a bit of getting use to. I was travelling down the motorway when the engine switches off and it runs on Battery for a couple of miles then engine cuts back in as Battery depletes. Very nice inside with every toy as standard. Very fast 0-60 in 5.6. Has a real growl when you accelerate. It is a quality car and for the price of a nearly new one you can't go wrong. Call your nearest dealer and try one

They had one of these at Westfield shopping centre today. I had a quick sit in it and first impressions were quite favourable. I had, however, just finished a test drive with Tesla and was still reeling from that experience!

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[ganzoom]

Not the current model, but 60% deprecation in 3 years....that's horrendous which ever way you look at it, even at that price I think it'll struggle to sell!!

[DJP]

Indeed, and of course that's the forecourt price, not what the previous owner received. Mind you, 40,50,60%, whatever it is isn't great and only man maths can justify it. I remember discussing depreciation with my wife, who isn't interested in cars, she said 'I can tell you how to take the heat out of depreciation'. ' Don't buy new and keep it for 10 years'. That wasn't the answer I was looking for!

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[lee789]

I wouldn't touch an Infiniti with a barge pole. I seriously looked into ownership a couple of years ago, but after speaking with Infiniti GB Customer Services on a number of occasions, I came to the conclusion that they really hadn't got a clue, and that the way the company operates makes ownership a nightmare waiting to happen. No extended warranties, no pick up at service times after the 3 year warranty expires, parts only available through dealerships with Nissan not being allowed to work on the cars, expensive servicing & parts, absolutely dreadful residuals across the range. A shame, because having driven the old G37 Coupe Convertible and the M Hybrid Premier model, I was really impressed. For reference, a friend of mine bought and owned an Infiniti M class for 3 years from new. He paid £45,000 for the top spec model, and after 3 years and just 12,000 miles, he had a best p/ex offer of £10500 for it, and that was from an Infiniti dealer. He's kept it.

[DJP]

Thanks Lee, very helpful and probably the final nail in that coffin! That residual is dreadful, but not when taken in the context on what you were saying earlier.

Somebody once said to me before you buy anything you're not going to keep forever, have a think about whose going to want it after you.

So current short list after IS300h is currently an NX300h or a Tesla. I love Lexus and am trying to love the NX but it's not quite happening. Now the Tesla, well, that's a whole different ballgame....

[lee789]

Well I certainly wouldn't recommend an NX to anybody, especially not the hybrid version. My wife uses mine now, and she doesn't really like it much either. As for the Tesla, I'm rather put off by the price, and the increasing number of poor reliability reports surfacing (see here) http://www.autotrainingcentre.com/blog/tesla-model-chronically-unreliable-2/

I've mentioned it on the forum before, but I'm currently driving my company's Volvo V60 plug in. Absolutely phenomenal car - constant 90 + mpg, 30 miles on a charge, 0-60 in 5.8 seconds, and every bit of kit imaginable. I was put off buying one for myself because of the limited boot space, but now I reckon it just about OK for what I need. There's a few 15 plates around that were close to £60k in March now going for £35k. That's a lot of car for the money. Hmmm!!

[DJP]

Here what you say about the NX, I want to love it but I'm not sold, yet anyway. The Volvo, not even considered that. Did have one years ago but hadn't considered recently. You mention the boot, it would need to be able to accommodate a set of golf clubs and a trolley. The NX is fine, if that helps you help me lol.

[lee789]

Not sure. Boot is a fair size, but it's a high load area because of the batteries. Loads of space with one or both parts of the rear seat down though. Photo below.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=photo+boot+v60+plug+in&espv=2&biw=1745&bih=868&tbm=isch&imgil=bQStV4EsxFuEJM%253A%253Bh6q5Sw0_3frvJM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fecomento.com%25252Freview%25252Fvolvo-v60-plug-hybrid-swedish-cruiser-car-ever-need%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=bQStV4EsxFuEJM%253A%252Ch6q5Sw0_3frvJM%252C_&usg=__jMT-R8xKUiKA-_q9HoSj1HnPbXo%3D&ved=0CDkQyjdqFQoTCJjggLqZrMcCFUe3FAodQ3EKrg&ei=fsXPVZipCcfuUsPiqfAK#imgrc=bQStV4EsxFuEJM%3A&usg=__jMT-R8xKUiKA-_q9HoSj1HnPbXo%3D

[DJP]

Not sure. Boot is a fair size, but it's a high load area because of the batteries. Loads of space with one or both parts of the rear seat down though. Photo below.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=photo+boot+v60+plug+in&espv=2&biw=1745&bih=868&tbm=isch&imgil=bQStV4EsxFuEJM%253A%253Bh6q5Sw0_3frvJM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fecomento.com%25252Freview%25252Fvolvo-v60-plug-hybrid-swedish-cruiser-car-ever-need%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=bQStV4EsxFuEJM%253A%252Ch6q5Sw0_3frvJM%252C_&usg=__jMT-R8xKUiKA-_q9HoSj1HnPbXo%3D&ved=0CDkQyjdqFQoTCJjggLqZrMcCFUe3FAodQ3EKrg&ei=fsXPVZipCcfuUsPiqfAK#imgrc=bQStV4EsxFuEJM%3A&usg=__jMT-R8xKUiKA-_q9HoSj1HnPbXo%3D

Thanks Lee, that's plenty big enough. I'll have to go and have a look but it's not jumping at me. The Tesla teething problems are good to watch, for once I'm pleased I'm some time before the Lexus is due up.

[lee789]

It's a car that looks much better in the metal. Photos didn't do much for me either, and still don't if I'm honest. One you have to see, sit in and drive to appreciate the comfort, build quality, performance and looks. I like the way they have managed to carry over front end cues from Roger Moore's old Volvo 1800, with the classic shooting brake rear end from Volvo's of the 1970's, and rolled it all up into a modern design. I think it looks particularly striking in white. I know some regard Volvo as a brand for old fella's, but any old fella who test drives the V60 plug in or V60 Polestar, would need to take a fresh set of underwear, and have any pacemaker checked out beforehand. The 0-60 time is up there with cars like the 3.0 Jaguar XFS, but it's the way the instant torque (Max 640Nm in the plug in) gets it to around 50 mph that really impresses. Puts a smile on my face as I pull away leaving the boy racers standing!!

[ganzoom]

The hybrid system in the Lexus IS good but from my personal experience of living with a Battery EV day to day for the last 6 months, plug in Hybrids / Battery EVs are the future.

We did over 200 miles in the Leaf this weekend. We charged up twice at service stations when stopping for a coffee break. No issues, cruise control set at just below 70 mph. Such a relaxing trip even my wife is getting use to using the rapid chargers, and she one wants us to use the Leaf for our next trip to Cardiff (320 mile round trip). :)

One thing to bare in mind about Tesla, even though the Model S has been on sale for a few years Tesla is still constantly changing component designs. The latest cars are apparently noticeably quieter, and better screwed together than the earlier cars.

I've not been in a Volvo ever, but their plug in hybrids look good. But just bear in mind Battery EVs will always offer better miles per kWh, due to not having to drag around a petrol engine etc. On the Leaf this weekend the average was 4.8 mile per kWh, that's including using air-con 50% of the time and keeping at just below the national speed limit.

Regardless of brands more options will become available over time, sadly if Lexus/Toyota keep on avoiding developing Battery EVs their product line will become less and less attractive :(

Oh our total fuel cost for 200 miles, £3 worth of electricity charging overnight at start of the trip and in London at parents house :)

[lee789]

SInce Nissan make the best selling small SUV, I'm rather surprised they haven't come up with a plug in version of it yet. The Leaf is a great little car, providing some idiot with a normal vehicle hasn't parked in the charging bay. Lost count of the number of times that happened to us, and retailers/forecourt owners really should take action to stop it. I agree with you, plug in cars and twin engine cars do make the Toyota/Lexus hybrid system look ever less attractive. When BMW and VW launch their versions early next year, I think they will make cars like the IS and GS hybrids virtually redundant.

[DJP]

Glad your trip,went well Gang! I take your point about dragging the ICE around, but would I be right in thinking something like the Volvo V60 Is a 'proper' EV until the range is exhausted, rather then the Lexus hybrid where the motor supports the ICE?

Lee,that was an interesting link to the Tesla reliability, I'm hoping they were teething issues that are being ironed out. I quite like being an early adopter, but on a £60k product, I'm not so sure!!

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[lee789]

Yes, the Volvo has an electric range of up to 32 miles, and you can drive on electric only at speeds of up to 78mph, Regenerative braking helps charge the Battery, as does the diesel engine if you use it. There is a Battery save button that can be pressed to reserve the power in the batteries if you are on a longer journey, and that power can then be used when you get into stop/start traffic. There are three drive modes - Pure (Battery only), Hybrid (uses whichever is most appropriate, electric, diesel, or both), and Power (combines both hybrid and diesel to give nearly 300bhp and the 640Nm of torque, turning the car into a bit of a monster). The V60 plug ins I've been looking at all have Adaptive lights, adaptive cruise, collision mitigation systems, reversing camera, blind spot, lane departure system,. 650W Harman Kardon stereo, and tilt and slide sunroof. Pretty good for around £35k, being just a few months old, and with very low mileage. I also like the zero road tax, no London congestion charge, and negligible fuel costs.