Is300H Permanent Drivetrain Vibrations @1300Rpms

[dblacha]

Hi all.

I have the IS300h '2013. Sometime ago I've started the topic about vibrations (http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/86868-potential-manufacturing-defect/).

As topic seems to be almost dead, but I'm suffering with vibrations every day, I would like to refresh this case.

Is anybody still experiencing this issue? Except me and Tore, who got a new car after a few tries of repairing in the Lexus service as you can see on the previous topic?

I did the software upgrade, which was attended to fix the issue, but there wasn't any noticeable change. Maybe some placebo effect just after the upgrade, nothing more.

I'm very frustrated feeling those vibrations now, maybe because after almost 2 years of driving the IS300h my driving style changed to quieter ride, causing that I'm more frequently on the ~1300RPMs where vibrations are present and always are manifesting strong. Or it the defect progresses...

If I would like to ride the vibrating car I could buy a Diesel!

For sure it is a Lexus?

I want your opinions, because if indeed this potential manufacturing defect is rare and Lexus is not interested in global fixing it, I must do something. I should go as Tore did: force the service to fix it or replace the car. I do not want to drive this defective drivetrain for the next few years...

BTW: I'm owner of the Prius '2004, so I exactly know what are specific for this drivetrain sound and vibrations effects. And the Prius has no such annoying vibrations at all.

Best Regards,

Dominik.

[Twan1970]

Dear Dominik,

My name is Twan. I'm from the Netherlands. I privately drive an IS300h since October 2013 and I'm facing exactly the same issue with the driving train as you describes. I also did the FW update last august but that didn't solve the vibration. Last February I talked to the dealer and they were hoping that by the end of March an update or what so ever would be available to cure the issues. I wasn’t the only customer complaining about this issue they had six more. I have test driven 3 other IS300h but they all have the same issues. I didn’t try out the 2015 model year, but I don’t think there is any difference.

To be honest my wife drives an Auris TS 2014. This car has more or less the same issues at 120km/h, it is not so strong but there is a vibration as well. She complained at the dealer about this and they told her there is no solution it has to do with the low emission regulation. They engine is running so lean that it’s not feeling happy and starts to vibrate.

If Lexus isn’t able to solve this than the next car is definitely not a Lexus any more.

Let’s hope for the best.

Regards,

Twan

[DJP]

That low emission point may be interesting. I confess to having no idea at all, but could the emission regs be stricter in Scandinavia than in the UK, and that's why no UK owner seems to have reported it? Is it a sort of modern day 'pinking' that I used to get about 30 years ago?

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[dblacha]

Hi,

thanks Twan for sharing your experience.

Low emission: I'm trying to understand what can be the point. Maybe, there is some (stupidly precise) rule in EURO5 where at the given speed, when the speed is stable and we are riding on the flat road, the emission should be below some level? And f.e. when we are riding with 90kmph (and this is the rule test speed level), we are limited to not go higher than 1300RPM in those conditions and Lexus can't lower the RPM for this concrete conditions because of not enough power below 1300RPM and this is why we are stick to this value? I have no idea how to explain it in an other way, anyway, non hybrid cars are producing more CO2 at such conditions... Crazy enough.

I'll ask my service if they know about this update, I would be great if they found the solution.

Best Regards,

Dominik.

[dblacha]

Once I had other possible explanation: the cars for UK and Japan are OK, and something happened when Lexus had to reconfigure the IS300h for right-lane driving law.

But... I found later, that in Australia they have the same problem: http://au.lexusownersclub.com/forums/topic/12573-is-300h-vibrations/...

[ColinBarber]

Once I had other possible explanation: the cars for UK and Japan are OK, and something happened when Lexus had to reconfigure the IS300h for right-lane driving law.

But... I found later, that in Australia they have the same problem: http://au.lexusownersclub.com/forums/topic/12573-is-300h-vibrations/...

It is something that I have previously suggested - it is something to do with LHD vehicles.

However there is no reconfiguration for RHD vehicles - that is the normal and correct way, it is a RHD designed vehicle. The reconfiguration is to convert it to LHD ;)

[ColinBarber]

Having said above ^^^ I do think RHD vehicles experience this, but maybe it is less. Certainly I've experienced it a few times and initially I thought it was just a piece of poor road surface that I was driving over. It happens so infrequently that I personally don't see it as an issue - it is so rare that the engine is running at 1,300 rpm for anything other than a fraction of a second with my driving style.

My ECU was upgraded to the firmware that is meant to reduce this effect when I purchased it so no experience of how bad it is without the upgrade.

[dblacha]

Having said above ^^^ I do think RHD vehicles experience this, but maybe it is less. Certainly I've experienced it a few times and initially I thought it was just a piece of poor road surface that I was driving over. It happens so infrequently that I personally don't see it as an issue - it is so rare that the engine is running at 1,300 rpm for anything other than a fraction of a second with my driving style.

My ECU was upgraded to the firmware that is meant to reduce this effect when I purchased it so no experience of how bad it is without the upgrade.

Hi Colin, I don't think it is the effect of the LHD or THD (Toyota Hybrid Drive == LHD) construction itself. I have also the Prius 2G (THD 2004), of course, it has smaller engine, but its natural (normal) vibrations are just like in IS300h (a little stronger due to weaker damping), except the vibrations @1300rpm. I drove 200kkm and never had such issue. Only small shaking when the ICE is starting / stopping on low speed just like in the IS. No constant, resonant vibrations at all. There is no a rpm meter on board, however I'm pretty sure, that Prius on a common, out of the city speeds like 70-80kmph, has also very low rpms, close to the 1200-1300.

[dblacha]

Once I had other possible explanation: the cars for UK and Japan are OK, and something happened when Lexus had to reconfigure the IS300h for right-lane driving law.

But... I found later, that in Australia they have the same problem: http://au.lexusownersclub.com/forums/topic/12573-is-300h-vibrations/...

It is something that I have previously suggested - it is something to do with LHD vehicles.

However there is no reconfiguration for RHD vehicles - that is the normal and correct way, it is a RHD designed vehicle. The reconfiguration is to convert it to LHD ;)

I didn't know that it is RHD designed vehicle. So my hypothesis doesn't make a sens :-)

[ColinBarber]

I have also the Prius 2G (THD 2004), of course, it has smaller engine, but its natural (normal) vibrations are just like in IS300h (a little stronger due to weaker damping), except the vibrations @1300rpm. I drove 200kkm and never had such issue. Only small shaking when the ICE is starting / stopping on low speed just like in the IS. No constant, resonant vibrations at all. There is no a rpm meter on board, however I'm pretty sure, that Prius on a common, out of the city speeds like 70-80kmph, has also very low rpms, close to the 1200-1300.

I too have never had any vibration issues in a Gen 2 Prius, and I've driven many more miles in that vehicle compared to my IS300h.

Personally I believe the engine runs a little faster in the Prius has it has less torque, but it is also a very different engine being a standard otto cycle engine rather than the Atkinson cycle engine in the IS and no direct injection.

[dblacha]

I have also the Prius 2G (THD 2004), of course, it has smaller engine, but its natural (normal) vibrations are just like in IS300h (a little stronger due to weaker damping), except the vibrations @1300rpm. I drove 200kkm and never had such issue. Only small shaking when the ICE is starting / stopping on low speed just like in the IS. No constant, resonant vibrations at all. There is no a rpm meter on board, however I'm pretty sure, that Prius on a common, out of the city speeds like 70-80kmph, has also very low rpms, close to the 1200-1300.

I too have never had any vibration issues in a Gen 2 Prius, and I've driven many more miles in that vehicle compared to my IS300h.

Personally I believe the engine runs a little faster in the Prius has it has less torque, but it is also a very different engine being a standard otto cycle engine rather than the Atkinson cycle engine in the IS and no direct injection.

Nope, Prius 2G (and any other generation) has Atkinson ICE as well. Indeed without DI, however... there are a lot info about the same vibration in the 3G, and there is no DI. Did something happen when Toyota changed the PSD - adding the second planetary gear set? It will be interesting to find if this issue exists on the ES300h and the Camry Hybrid.

[ColinBarber]

Nope, Prius 2G (and any other generation) has Atkinson ICE as well. Indeed without DI, however... there are a lot info about the same vibration in the 3G, and there is no DI. No did something happen when Toyota changed the PSD - adding the second planetary gear set? It will be interesting to find if this issue exists on the ES300h and the Camry Hybrid.

Correct they are both Atkinson, sorry I was thinking of the difference between the RX Gen2 and Gen3.

I've not heard of these issues on the Camry/ES hybrid. To me the sound seems to come from the rear, possibly from the exhaust system rather than the engine.

Do you notice any difference if you use Sport mode compared to normal?

[dblacha]

Correct they are both Atkinson, sorry I was thinking of the difference between the RX Gen2 and Gen3.

I've not heard of these issues on the Camry/ES hybrid. To me the sound seems to come from the rear, possibly from the exhaust system rather than the engine.

Do you notice any difference if you use Sport mode compared to normal?

RX Gen2 has Otto ICE? I didn't know, seems to be interesting. Maybe that's why it is more robust than Gen 3. And of course more thirsty ;-)

If I use Sport mode, it seems like I have less chance to stick with 1300rmps, but it's possible and sounds then identical.

Last days I'm driving in the normal or sport on "S" with the paddles - it's the only way not to get the vibrations, unless I'm on the 6 gear with steady speed but... it's a rare state ;-)

I found the ASC very nice sounding for me, specially on normal mode and S - a nice mix of the artificial sound and the real ICE sound.

I also think, that it is the ICE resonance with the exhaust pipes or (a worse case) the drive shaft resonance with the ICE.

[Twan1970]

Dear IS300H owners,

Finally, there is a solution for our vibration. Last Monday my IS was modified by adding a dynamic damper on the wheel suspension plus another motor management update. To be honest the vibration is drastically reduced. At 80 and 100km/h there is no vibration noticeable only a slight vibration between 60-70km/h. This weekend I will do some more testing but for now I’m a happy driver.
The solution is still in the pilot phase but just asked your dealer for this solution they most probably have to ask the Toyota importer for approval first.

Below some pictures of the damper left on the wheel suspension.

[ColinBarber]

Please let us know how you get on. I'm noticing this more and more with my IS so good to know there may be a solution.

[ToreOe]

Twan,

Thank you for this very interresting piece of new information.

I'm the one that got a new car from Lexus because of these driveline vibrations, but after 6000km the new 2015 has the same vibrations. Not as bad as the 2014, but definitely noticeable.

The IS has an appointment with Lexus for an infotainment update monday, I will definitely inquire about the "bugfix" then.

-Tore

[dblacha]

Dear IS300H owners,

Finally, there is a solution for our vibration. Last Monday my IS was modified by adding a dynamic damper on the wheel suspension plus another motor management update. To be honest the vibration is drastically reduced. At 80 and 100km/h there is no vibration noticeable only a slight vibration between 60-70km/h. This weekend I will do some more testing but for now I’m a happy driver.

The solution is still in the pilot phase but just asked your dealer for this solution they most probably have to ask the Toyota importer for approval first.

Thank you Twan! This is a FANTASTIC news!!! Regards.

[dblacha]

Twan,

Thank you for this very interresting piece of new information.

I'm the one that got a new car from Lexus because of these driveline vibrations, but after 6000km the new 2015 has the same vibrations. Not as bad as the 2014, but definitely noticeable.

The IS has an appointment with Lexus for an infotainment update monday, I will definitely inquire about the "bugfix" then.

-Tore

Tore, GS300h 2015 has the same issue - I drove it for one service day.

BR, Dominik

[ToreOe]

Dominik,

Yes, I noticed the same vibrations in the GS300h loaner I had - albeit less pronounced. There were none in the GS450h, though. I guess I should have gotten an IS450h - that would be nice.

Today's visit at Lexus got me nowhere with my bluetooth-ache, but I got a confirmation I was first in line when the tuned damper-parts became available. Indications from Toyota Norge was that this would be some time this month. Boy am I looking forward to that.

-Tore

[darrude]

Hi Guys,

I have noticed a vibration on mine at 50mph but only when on a slight incline. I know this is subjective, but just how bad is it on your cars. I would say mine is more of a oh, that doesn't seem right, rather than OMG what is wrong with the car, at first i thought it might have been due to the road surface / natural resonance but it is definitely coming from the drive train.

I'm wondering whether to book mine in or not. But as it has only ever happens in the roadworks on the M1 and I can't make it happen when driving around locally i'm not sure if the lexus dealership will say they can find anything wrong. Is it a case with your cars that is always happens when driving at this speed? Any tips on how to test for it so I can show the dealer.

Although my Bluetooth keeps disconnecting so might take it in for a firmware update anyway.

Thanks,

Darren.

[ColinBarber]

I'm the same as you Darren. It happens on slight inclines, mainly around 50 mph through roadworks. Clearly some cars are worse than others. Not sure if I want the hassle of getting it sorted out, my vehicle seems to always come back in a worse state after a dealer visit.

[Deadloak]

Will be annoying if mine comes with the issue from the factory. Although I'd probably not notice since I'll be listening to music 99% of the time I'm driving. But you'd expect a known retro fix, to be a permanent feature from the factory pretty quickly.

[ColinBarber]

You feel the issue and well as hear it. At this stage it looks like the fix is going through testing with real customer so it is unlikely to have been put into production.

[darrude]

Mine is booked in for a software update on wednesday. Went from through 20miles of a 50Mph zone on the M1 on Friday and my god was it annoying. Not sure if worse than before or just because I'm sensitive to it now. They didn't mention anything about a dampener change even though I asked the specific question, but did say the fix was an ECU software update.

[ColinBarber]

An ECU update have been around for a while, that is what they are probably talking about. I had that done when I purchased my IS so I don't know how much it improves things but it is certainly still there after the update.