Pop-Up Hood - Warning

[EvilAudi]

Hi JonnyWil

Sorry that this has happened to you - a very expensive fault which thankfully looks like it will be picked up by Lexus. In case you hadn't read the full thread, when my pop-up hood deployed, my car was off the road for about 3 weeks, the main reason for this time was colour-matching the new bonnet which meant painting the adjacent bodywork. Total bill was over £4k.

[toffee_pie]

What a waste of time these things. Are they standard on new cars or optional? Is there scientific or whatever evidence of them of actually doing anything?!

[is200 Newbie]

You need to keep all of the evidence - DO NOT give the only copy of anything you have such as the AA report or pictures to the dealer. Give them copies if requested to and keep a record of whats done as a repair.

This amounts to a major failure and could result in a "danger to life" situation - any risk assessor will tell you that the implications of this could / should lead to a recall - at the very minimum a check on the cars made within the same spec or vin (whatever they use as a traceable batch)

Like you said above - due to the seriousness of the fault and the fact that it could have so easily resulted in an accident or even death, the fact that if it was in an accident situation you would be hard pressed to prove the cause as that's what the bonnet is designed to do in hitting something - if the cars new then this has got to be a recall - one fault in however many they have sold would in normal instances not warrant a recall but due to the seriousness of this then it should not be a repair they undertake to fix the problem and let you drive off on your way with no record of this but a technical report made on the fault and recorded for reference to be made against other models made along side yours. I would like to think this is their process and view also..?

Were you aware that the car had this feature - I am guessing its described in the manual for the car? - it should be. If not then I would be very surprised if they are probably in breach of safety regulations in not informing you of the danger of this feature. The warning does not have to be "in your face" but it should show in the manual as it is assumed you, as an owner, will read it.

[rayaans]

The manual does go into detail about the pop up hood.

Something I found out the other day - the silver headlight washers arent for show. They stick out because the housing under them have sensors for the pop up hood.

All in all, I was told by my service tech that the pop up hood will go off if you get a BIG stone near that area or anything else which makes an impact. However this is deemed to be quite rare and only affected a minority of cars in the UK. I think it was about 8 cars in total which spontaneously activated their hoods. In fact one of them was due to a kid hitting a football onto that area.

There is significant evidence that the system works very well in pedestrian collisions as it reduces the chance of getting massive head injuries. Less chance of hitting the engine and other hard components.

I've seen a guys head put a 6 inch depth hole in a cars bonnet before

[200h]

before reading this topic i had noticed the 2 posts under the bonnet but didn't know what they where for.

do they only become activate above a certain speed or are they active once the car starts moving.

i cant get over the cost of the repairs.

[ganzoom]

I think the Pop up hoods are needed to pass safety regulations, especially with low bonnets and the engine mounted high.

You can argue about repair costs, but they have been clearly reduce the potential of a head injury due to less chance of the head making contact with a hard surface like the engine.

I would turn the issue around, if you, or your child/wife/parent was involved in a RTA with a car, would you rather they hit their head on the bonnet with a car that had a 'pop up' hood or one without??

At the end of the day the reason we have car insurance is to cover unexpected costs, personally I have no problems with advancing safety items adding repair/purchase costs to the car....Every car on the road is a 1-2 ton projectile capable of massive damage in any accident, the safer we can make the car for occupants and third parties the better. Which is why we decided to go for the 'safety pack' on our IS300H - Annoying Lexus only offer on the top spec cars, which I think is quite disgraceful.

Cars can be repaired, human bodies not so easily.

http://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/pedestrian-protection/head-impact/

[ganzoom]

I hope Active collision avoidance/Active braking systems are made mandatory in all cars soon. The technology is here, its not that expensive, and avoid the need for things like pop-up bonnets because avoiding the collision in the first place is the best solution.

The 'safety pack' on the current IS300H doesn't do this, though technology-wise I'm sure it can but Lexus hasn't implemented it in the software :(

[zippyone]

Having just read all of this article, I must say that I now feel a little worried, I was aware of this feature, but not of it's sensitivity and in fact, potential danger. This safety factor could, in itself, also be a danger factor.

I think that what JonnyWil #28, described in his first paragraph is typical of what we would all do in a similar situation, after of course the mind thinking, "Chr... what the hell was that," followed by a quick dashboard check, (Think about it?). These actions, even though natural, take precious seconds and could be a potential hazard to fellow road users and pedestrians, depending on prevailing conditions at the time.

Yes, it is important to keep original documents and maybe, as in the case of the AA report, withhold it, until a full assessment is made by Lexus. I feel that it is also another good reason to use a carcam, it would document the full sequence of events and reduce the amt. of time and effort, in establishing the initial cause of the problem and its progression.

I didn't know that the headlight washers had sensors in them. Does this mean they must be washed and dried with care? is the sensitivity adjustable? or does it take quite a whack to set them off?

I take your point Rayaans, about the number of recorded instances of this incident, but how many go unrecorded? Not to be too dramatic, but we both know that sometimes the measure between life and death can be a lot less than seconds. Maybe more needs to be done regards the design of these things, both from a pedestrian and driver prospective. Safety should have have a 360° aspect.

My car is MY13 but first registered 01/15, I wash/clean it each week, also wiping any excess water that gets below the bonnet, now I'll be more careful me thinks.

I use a dealer in Milan, 'Spotorno car,' I think that in reality they are a Toyota dealership and just do Lexus as a sideline. I would rate them at about 5 out of 10. Servicing I am quite happy with, I have a good rapore with the mechanic. Bodywork they are not so good at IMHO, my CT was rear ended in July 13 and they had an outside guy collect it, the finished work was bad, so I got them to do it again. I must explain that when annoyed my voice can be loud and the whole workshop stopped to look as I was giving the manager a verbal headache. When my IS was rear ended this year, it went to a local chap, who knows me, is good and reliable. OK I got a crap car for a few days, 'Fiat dustbin,' but I only needed it to get home and back, 13km. Accessories also take a long time to get, rubber mat for the boot, minimum 2 weeks. In UK when on holiday, had a Blackvue fitted in the morning, 2hours, then nipped down the road to, 'Snows,' Hedge End, spoke with a nice Polish girl, "sorry no mat in stock, but wait a moment please, I'll take one out of that show car, we can replace it later.' Had my mat in less than 5 minutes, but was about £100 lighter. A totally better attitude and service, but Hedge End are normally like that.

Lexus make a big deal out of the fact that their people are specially trained by them, next time you're at your dealership ask the mechanic for his in date Lexus training certificate, also the body shop operative, bet they ain't got one, probably a Toyota one, if that. Fairy duff, Toyota certificate or less, Toyota or less prices. Lexus also need to get their spare supply chain sorted, they should be able to get parts within 24hrs, not a week or more, bet their boss's responsible for these things are paid very well out of our hard earned cash, to keep the seats of their trousers very shiny.

The product is good, I am pleased with my IS and would buy another if health and life prevail, (I'm 69), but Lexus cannot afford to live on their laurels, they need to concentrate on really improving all their service sectors and use a little 'Roundup,' on their more, ' Micky Mouse,' dealerships. The opposition is closing in, very quickly.

Well that's my half crown's worth.

Best wishes.

Michael.

[is200 Newbie]

Well said Michael

[Martin F]

I didn't know that the headlight washers had sensors in them. Does this mean they must be washed and dried with care? is the sensitivity adjustable? or does it take quite a whack to set them off?

Yep, only rub them in an anti-clockwise direction as otherwise you may get knocked out by the bonnet popping up in your face :O

[zippyone]

job for the wife then

[rayaans]

I think the pop up bonnet only fires when the ignition is on and Id assume its over a certain speed.

The silver headlight washers don't have the sensors in, its underneath them in the bumper itself.

[Rabbers]

The presence of a pop-up hood on the 300h as a means of doing pedestrians potentially less harm in the event of a

collision is a desirable thing on ethical grounds alone. No question about it. However, until pop-up hoods are made

compulsory on all cars, hopefully at an acceptable cost, their presence needs to be reconciled with considerations

of a practical and economic nature. For example:

* Why should my insurance company have the benefit of a prospectively lower payout to a pedestrian because of a

reduced amount of harm while having charged me the same premium as for a car without the pop-up hood?

* Why is the pop-up hood incorporated into the car as a fixture and not offered as an optional? In other words, how

much lower would the price of the car be without it? Does it constitute an element of profit that Lexus would be

unwilling to relinquish?

* Why does the pop-up hood not have a switch-off option useable, for example, where danger from pedestrians is

relatively low (e.g. motorways) and that from animals specifically high (e.g. animal warning areas)?

* Why, as appears to be the case, are Lexus dealership personnel not in possession of ready information about the

potentially very high, indeed alarming, repair costs consequent to the pop-up hood's activation?

[Martin F]

* Why should my insurance company have the benefit of a prospectively lower payout to a pedestrian because of a

reduced amount of harm while having charged me the same premium as for a car without the pop-up hood?

* Why is the pop-up hood incorporated into the car as a fixture and not offered as an optional? In other words, how

much lower would the price of the car be without it? Does it constitute an element of profit that Lexus would be

unwilling to relinquish?

I think you mis-understand the reason for the pistons and pop-up hood. It is only fitted to cars whose engine is fairly high in the bay and close to the bonnet, and thus in the event of an impact by a pedestrian there is a risk of their head\body deforming the bonnet and contacting the engine. Some cars don't need the pop-up hood to pass the relevant pedestrian safety tests.

[is200 Newbie]

It may explain to a lesser extent, the amount of plastic covers on the 250 (and others) used in the engine bay especially the main one covering the top of the engine?

Looks tidy but has another function

[DJP]

It may explain to a lesser extent, the amount of plastic covers on the 250 (and others) used in the engine bay especially the main one covering the top of the engine?

Looks tidy but has another function

I always thought that main one screamed 'only take me off if you know what you are doing!' Seeing as I haven't a clue I never did [emoji3]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[is200 Newbie]

I know what you mean ... mines screaming and rattling ...

May come off in the future .... may not !

[ColinBarber]

* Why is the pop-up hood incorporated into the car as a fixture and not offered as an optional? In other words, how

much lower would the price of the car be without it? Does it constitute an element of profit that Lexus would be

unwilling to relinquish?

Everything on the vehicle constitutes an element of profit.

Whilst the Toyota Production System allows for a huge variations in consecutive vehicles on the assembly line, Lexus GB have a philosophy of having as few options as possible, and having a items fitted as standard to all vehicles is certainly the cheapest way to provide a feature. This is no different having the option to purchase a vehicle without a stereo - it isn't going to happen.

I'm not familiar with the regulations for pedestrian safety, it may be that the design of the low bonnet and high mounted engine make it compulsory for the pop-up hood. Alternatively by having this feature fitted the insurance rating the vehicle received is probably less than if it didn't have it and therefore it is saving you money every year.

[ganzoom]

^*It'll be for the NCAP ratings. Been able to boast 5 stars is important for brands. NCAP also changes the ratings depending on the tech available. I'm sure soon any car without auto-brake fitted as standard wouldn't be granted 5 stars....The sooner they do this the better.

[JonnyWil]

Hello again,

Update on my car and Lexus has confirmed there was an impact on the car which has triggered to Pop Up Hood. In their own words the impact has been small and on the lower front offside corner of the bumper. The bumber itself is fine and Lexus have also confirmed there is no damage to the bumber and only removing this has shown the sensor tube has been crushed slightly at that side. So what they are saying is the pedestrian protection system can deploy when something small hits the bumper and causes flex in the plastic. As someone mentions above, a child kicks a football in the road, £3000 bill, a bird strikes the front of the car £3000 bill!!! Or even worse a child kicks a football in the road, you dont see it, it them triggers a extreamly loud explosion/ bang and something appears in your line of site, you brake and try to avoid and run over the child at the side of the road. Or a pigeon flys out infront of your car, makes contact with the bumper and triggers the Pop Up Hood and your natural instinct is to react to a loud bang or something that in a split second appears in your vision. Ok these are just possible senarios but who is going to question just how possible this could actually be?

What is everyone elses thoughts?

[ganzoom]

Sounds like a design faliure Lexus needs to sort out. You wouldn't expect an air bag to deploy without high impact....But I pretty sure what the 'official' Lexus response is :).

[toffee_pie]

My thoughts are ill pass on a pop up bonnet. I doubt it has any impact on insurance at all in any event.

[ganzoom]

My thoughts are ill pass on a pop up bonnet. I doubt it has any impact on insurance at all in any event.

You cannot 'pass' on it though. It's a built in feature of the car, likely so that is can earn the 5 star NCAP rating. But sounds like Lexus haven't implented the collision activation well enough. If a impact that doesn't even damage the bumper can set it off, that's not good design. Equally another fourm member had the front of their bumper badly damaged but the system didn't activate....

[JonnyWil]

Just to add the Pop Up Hood system is only active between 16 and 34 mph, anything outside of this and the system will not activate, the Lexus handbook also states other situations that could potentially deploy the pop up hood and I will add these later today when home as they are funny at least.

In response to ganzooms message I totally agree that safety systems are there for a good reason and many protect both the driver and any pedestrian. As a father myself I would have to say I would prefer the accident to be with a car with a pop up hood. But I also have to consider the occasions when this activates when no contact with a pedestrian the dangers it could create which could then otentially harm a pedestrian as a result. I ask the same question, if a car vears on the road and hits you or your child, would you have preffered it didnt have a pop up hoods that activated due to a minor impact such as a bird which then resulted in the driver taking action and hitting your or you child. I agree the later is much less likely to happen but if and when it does im sure the person on the recieving end wont even care about statistics.

[toffee_pie]

My thoughts are ill pass on a pop up bonnet. I doubt it has any impact on insurance at all in any event.

You cannot 'pass' on it though. It's a built in feature of the car, likely so that is can earn the 5 star NCAP rating. But sounds like Lexus haven't implented the collision activation well enough. If a impact that doesn't even damage the bumper can set it off, that's not good design. Equally another fourm member had the front of their bumper badly damaged but the system didn't activate....

do all new ish cars have this?, to me its on my cross off list along with auto stop/start.

Far too much hassle and flaws and trouble, again I seriously doubt your insurance will be reduced due to having a pop up bonnet.