Front Brake Caliper Corrosion

[Steve44]

Anyone else's brake calipers look like mine? Front's are all furry - alloy is oxidising like mad already (6 months old). Rear's are ok, not nearly as bad. Pretty poor I think. Looks awful behind the alloy wheels.

[rayaans]

Better get that to Lexus mate - they'll replace under warranty but they shouldn't look like that.

Out of interest, what do you use to clean the wheels? And how long between washes do you go? Im just asking as it could be other factors so best to rule them out - especially as you don't want the same thing happening to any new ones that are on. Its been 2.5 years and the RX ones are still shiny so Id expect the IS ones to be the same!

[Steve44]

I wondered that, not had a car as bad as that before.

Washed by either the local eastern european handwash team, or Lexus during service, or myself - not very often admittedly, as I'm doing 3k+ miles a month at the moment. Think car has been washed maybe 5 times.

[ColinBarber]

Lexus will change those under warranty. Mine are currently fine with the silver paint intact.

[Rabbers]

Steve, your pictures sent me straight outside to take a very close look at my calipers, front and rear. I was relieved to find

them still as new after 16 months of open-air parking with weekly washes. I do not see how Lexus could fail to change

yours immediately after seeing them.

[rayaans]

I wondered that, not had a car as bad as that before.

Washed by either the local eastern european handwash team, or Lexus during service, or myself - not very often admittedly, as I'm doing 3k+ miles a month at the moment. Think car has been washed maybe 5 times.

The chemicals that Lexus themselves use can be dangerous depending on their dilution. As far as I am aware, most of the Lexus franchises use Autosmart products with "Smart wheels" beings used as a wheel cleaner. Problem is its highly concentrated and needs to be diluted - if someone has been using it neat on your wheels - it'll eat through almost anything. I use it at 1:10 dilution and is great for moderate to heavy soiling - using it neat is overkill and not recommended by Autosmart themselves - lowest dilution is 1:3.

It may as well be the eastern european hand washes. Hand washes tend to use highly acidic wheel cleaners - shifts almost anything with minimal effort - including metal if left for long enough - maybe 3 mins.

It could even be that safe wheel cleaners are being used and the caliper itself is defective - who knows?

[Steve44]

I don't think the wheel wash chemicals have caused this, but have probably exacerbated the problem. The top photo is the drivers front wheel, the bottom photo is the drivers rear wheel. Passenger side calipers are the same condition front/rear. It would look like the front calipers on mine either didn't come with any kind of finish, or only the lightest of dustings of protective paint, which has gone and the alloy is corroding like mad already. All the salt and water over winter isn't helping either. if it was wheel cleaner, then I'd expect the rears to be the same condition.

I was going to take it to the dealer shortly anyway to ask them to look at the brakes, as there has been a few times where stopping performance hasn't been what I expected. This is the first car I've had which has a propensity to light up the ABS and stability control under braking, which combined with the re-gen braking and general feel, makes anything more than light braking become a voyage into the unknown of "Am I going to stop in time!". I've had more than a couple of squeaky bum moments.

[rayaans]

I don't think the wheel wash chemicals have caused this, but have probably exacerbated the problem. The top photo is the drivers front wheel, the bottom photo is the drivers rear wheel. Passenger side calipers are the same condition front/rear. It would look like the front calipers on mine either didn't come with any kind of finish, or only the lightest of dustings of protective paint, which has gone and the alloy is corroding like mad already. All the salt and water over winter isn't helping either. if it was wheel cleaner, then I'd expect the rears to be the same condition.

I was going to take it to the dealer shortly anyway to ask them to look at the brakes, as there has been a few times where stopping performance hasn't been what I expected. This is the first car I've had which has a propensity to light up the ABS and stability control under braking, which combined with the re-gen braking and general feel, makes anything more than light braking become a voyage into the unknown of "Am I going to stop in time!". I've had more than a couple of squeaky bum moments.

Could possibly be down to the corrosion on the calipers! Best get that checked out before you hit something!

From the photo's the fronts do look much worse but Im still seeing a hint of corrosion on the rears. Get them checked just in case. The front's usually have more corrosion as they take the majority of the hit with all the brake dust and the bigger brakes up front.

Hmm ABS going off you say - thats unusual. Must say in 10 years of motoring, Ive never had ABS going off with any car!

[DJP]

I have found the ABS is pretty keen to come in, which I guess is better than late, and the traction/stability light is very nanny. Mind you, in the previous gen the damn buzzer went off as well as the light coming on!

Sent from my Iphone using Lexus OC

[Steve44]

Well, Lexus have checked the calipers today and the software check about the tc, abs, stability and found.........nothing wrong.

Calipers are salt corrosion, they checked the rest of the car and other areas show similar. They've cleaned them, but that's it.

Software and systems is all fine too, basically im driving it too hard (implied by the service tech,he could see throttle application and brake pressure tracks recorded in sw) and the car is doing what it needs to.

So, we will see, but I've got say any kind of hard braking doesn't inspire any confidence in me.

[Rabbers]

Steve:

Except for the calipers and other areas of corrosion having been cleaned, as, on the

evidence of your pictures, they clearly needed to be, I haven't really understood what

has been happening with your car. Only you can know the truth of exactly how hard

you have been driving the car and thus too frequently activating the safety systems.

But so what? That's what they are supposed to do, is it not? Your statement that

"we will see" sounds a bit too fatalistic, and if I were you, I would get a second

opinion from another Lexus workshop the next time you are in the neighbourhood

of one.

[Steve44]

Renato - the car seems skittish and unsure of itself if I find myself doing any kind of hard braking. Anything on a slight bend, over uneven road surface, or in mildly damp conditions has the TC/Stability and occasionally the ABS lights flashing on the dash. All places where I previously had complete confidence in my previous cars ability and reactions.

Also, I find that trying to modulate brake pressure at the pedal and the expected retardation of the car is hit and miss at best - a given brake pressure one day brings the car to a stop sharp, another day, the car doesn't seem to want to slow up quite so quick, and the change from regen braking to disc/pad can often be accompanied by a lurch and change in pedal pressure. This is if hard or cadence braking. In the few occasions I have had to stop quickly, the car has done so, so I'm sure it is basically fine, but it just does not inspire confidence.

I don't think I'm doing anything more than I have done with previous cars, but dealer is implying the car is doing what it needs to respond to how I'm driving it.

Searching around on the internet, and Lexus safety systems seem more nannying than other manufacturers - maybe it is nothing - I have no prior basis with the brand. Previous cars from different manufacturers have all needed to be driven like a complete hooligan to have any interaction from the cars systems, so maybe a different expectation is needed.

[rayaans]

Renato - the car seems skittish and unsure of itself if I find myself doing any kind of hard braking. Anything on a slight bend, over uneven road surface, or in mildly damp conditions has the TC/Stability and occasionally the ABS lights flashing on the dash. All places where I previously had complete confidence in my previous cars ability and reactions.

Also, I find that trying to modulate brake pressure at the pedal and the expected retardation of the car is hit and miss at best - a given brake pressure one day brings the car to a stop sharp, another day, the car doesn't seem to want to slow up quite so quick, and the change from regen braking to disc/pad can often be accompanied by a lurch and change in pedal pressure. This is if hard or cadence braking. In the few occasions I have had to stop quickly, the car has done so, so I'm sure it is basically fine, but it just does not inspire confidence.

I don't think I'm doing anything more than I have done with previous cars, but dealer is implying the car is doing what it needs to respond to how I'm driving it.

Searching around on the internet, and Lexus safety systems seem more nannying than other manufacturers - maybe it is nothing - I have no prior basis with the brand. Previous cars from different manufacturers have all needed to be driven like a complete hooligan to have any interaction from the cars systems, so maybe a different expectation is needed.

The regenerative brakes are a bit hit and miss really but if you floor the brake pedal, itll stop pretty well.

Im still not sure about the ABS coming on. Ive never had the ABS come on in the RX even when the brake pedal was pushed 2/3 of the way down. And the slip indicator only shows up in the wet - arguably because my front tyres are at 3mm now.

[ganzoom]

I took the demo F-sport we had on a pretty hard B road thrush back in November last year, averaged 14mpg over 15-20 miles from memory, and I've given our Premier on a decent work out on the same stretch of road last week...

I actually found the IS to be very stable mid-corner, and braking once you get use to the cutoff between regen/actual brake to be very progressive. I didn't do any deliberate brake tests, but I'm really surprised to hear your seeing the TC/ABS light come on hard stop, what kind of speed/distances are we talking about??

Our Premier has 17inch tyres, and despite my best efforts of putting the foot to the floor on existing corner, there really wasn't enough power to cause brake traction and light up the TC system (I think it happened once, and that was a corner with lots of camber)...If anything at the limit the IS just wants to carry on in a straight line, and does a very good demonstration of what understeer is like.

You must be taking the bends at a fare pace to make the TC/ABS system come on mid-corner?? I do notice your longterm average mpg is 40.7...Our car with less than 1000 miles on the clock and the cold weather is currently averaging 50mpg (including my bit of spirited B road action)...So may be you are driving yours very hard