Is300H Vs Mercedes C300 Bluetec Hybrid

[ganzoom]

So we're are patiently waiting for our IS300H to arrive in the UK, hopefully only another 4 weeks :)

Just saw this What-Car review comparing the IS300H with a Merc C300 hybrid, which is one of the other cars we considered when ordering the IS300H.

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/mercedes-benz/c-class/lexus-is300h-vs-new-mercedes-benz-c-class-hybrid/1329598

Reading the review it all seems quite positive for the IS300H, a much nicer hybrid experience, quiter, better equipped, more economical despite been a petrol....But some how the Merc C300 still comes out as a clear winner .

I cannot help but feel too many reviewers just cannot get their head around the point of the hybrid drive train...which is to deliver a comfortable/smooth driving experience, with enough speed, and without the clattering nature of a diesel engine.

If I wanted a fast car to do 0-60 dashes in the IS300H wouldn't even be on the short list, and actually I completely disagree about the steering/road handling of the IS300H. I've been lucky enough to drive/own a whole host of amazing handling cars, and the IS300H chassis/steering feel is up there with the best....I was really surprised at how well the IS300H coped with the B road sprint I took it on during the test drive, in fact compared to the factory M sport suspension on my E90 BMW 335i I would say the IS beats it!!! ....Sadly the drivetrain just isn't geared towards spirited B road driving. But over the pound Lexus have stuck 300bhp NA V6 into the IS chassis, and in a number of reviews it has come out as a better drivers car than the new F80 BMW 335i (and a host of other fast small saloons )

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/road-tests/reviews/a5213/the-comparison-65-3-roa1013/

Oh well, all the better in my view, means more exclusivity on the roads, since ordering our back in late November I think I've seen about 5-6 IS300Hs in total, one nearly ran me over the other day in a B&Q car park, I was looking at it and than all of a sudden it started moving (I forgot for a second the IS can move without the engine been on) B).

[stevet]

What-Car always puts German cars first. Pointless reviews.

[Steve44]

Here is another review - tables turned and IS300h declared the winner. Colleague of mine has ordered a C300 Bluetec Hybrid AMG line with a host of options, due in March, so he and I will be interested in a comparison. p.s He loves my car!

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mercedes/c-class/89404/mercedes-c300-bluetec-hybrid-vs-lexus-is-300h

[Steve44]

I've just read the WhatCar review and I don't agree with some of the comments on the Lexus ride, handling and steering. I don't think mine rolls a lot, nor is the steering slow to respond, nor is it particularly jittery on poor roads. Also, the footbrake and bulkhead don't interfere with my feet on the clutch rest as the review claims and the rear seat space was fine for my parents and a few friends and colleagues who have sat in the back, no complaints there. Also got no complaints about speed, as the BMW owner I was in front of and behind on the A50 today can testify too.

Yes there is a bit too much tyre roar on poor tarmac (but I think that is partly down to the Bridgestone tyres), and the brake pedal modulation is still a work in progress, even after 14k miles.

As for economy, another colleague has a E300 Hybrid estate and struggles to get more than 40mpg out of it. I've read that some C300 owners are not impressed so far with 40-45mpg out of their cars, which is similar or less than the Lexus.

[Rabbers]

Most Lexus owners will agree that their cars have seldom been favoured by European reviewers in borderline

comparisons with German ones. And yet we have still chosen to drive a Lexus, in most cases with few or no

regrets, and this implies that while we may find specialist reviews interesting or enjoyable to read, we have

ultimately ignored the opinions offered. As for myself, the 300h I am currently driving my fifth Lexus and still

fail to understand why reviewers tend to emphasise negatives even when their overall impressions may be

broadly favourable, though I have noticed that the opinion gap has narrowed with recent models.

Mostly, comparative reviews are informative enough as regards quantitative data whereas final verdicts and

how they are arrived at and presented are to a large extent subjective and therefore prone to bias. Since it is

common knowledge that magazines and other media are largely financed by advertising income and that some

advertisers are more important than others, it follows that any reliance we place on the good faith of reviewers,

assuming we care, depends on how cynical or mistrustful we personally are. And even when the magazines

do not carry advertising and trade on a reputation for fairness, the thought must still occur that journalists,

editors and publishers can be influenced by other means and that vested interests are not always easy to

identify. In short, it is a fact that car reviewers rarely find it in their interest to favour David over Goliath. In

this connection it would be interesting to know if the ability of the big Japanese car manufacturers, with the

Toyota Corporation at the helm, to influence media coverage and opinion in Asia and Australasia might not

equal that of the Germans in Europe and with comparable results. European imports in the luxury sedan

segment in these areas appear to sell largely on the basis of exclusivity (and maybe a bit of snobbery) in

much the same way as low numbers on the road are an attractive selling point to many Lexus customers

in Europe (myself included), the technical excellence of the brands concerned being universally acknowledged

irrespective of their origin.

[royoftherovers]

I feel that most Lexus owners will be content to be in the minority as it has occasionally been said that

"the minority are often the best informed."

Regards

John

[splatty]

I have never read a brilliant review of the IS

A colleague at work who will never drive non German told me he was surprised that I had ordered one as a Company car as the reviews were so poor

I gave him an easy curt response.................."Have you ever driven an IS300H ? No - I thought so, shut up then !"

I decided on mine after a 48 hour test drive

I did 300 miles in my A5 Coupe yesterday and my back is killing me today !!

[royoftherovers]

I have never read a brilliant review of the IS

A colleague at work who will never drive non German told me he was surprised that I had ordered one as a Company car as the reviews were so poor

I gave him an easy curt response.................."Have you ever driven an IS300H ? No - I thought so, shut up then !"

I decided on mine after a 48 hour test drive

I did 300 miles in my A5 Coupe yesterday and my back is killing me today !!

Says it all really!

Economical and true.

Regards

John

[stevet]

I think one of the problems is that drivers of German cars will only try German cars, where as Lexus owners have more than likely had/tried German cars and made their own decision to have a Lexus.

I unfortunately had an Audi Q5 because reviews said it was the best mid sized SUV ever made. How wrong they were. It was by far the worst car I've ever owned.

[royoftherovers]

I think one of the problems is that drivers of German cars will only try German cars, where as Lexus owners have more than likely had/tried German cars and made their own decision to have a Lexus.

I unfortunately had an Audi Q5 because reviews said it was the best mid sized SUV ever made. How wrong they were. It was by far the worst car I've ever owned.

I`ve had 7 German cars and 6 Japanese cars. All of the Japanese (Daihatsu, Nissan-2, Toyota, Mazda and Lexus) did not need any repairs or attention other than routine maintenance.

I do not need to read any reviews telling me how good German cars are!

Regards

John

[splatty]

I have had good and bad German cars, but I'm trying a change based on experience of trying the car

Some people don't get that, but I am open minded !!

My current petrol 2.0T A5 uses a litre of oil per 1000 miles.

German cars superior ?????

Roll on March 1st

[Ian J. Parsley]

I saw the What Car review (haven't look at Auto Express yet) and again was left mystified.

I didn't disagree with everything - I've some sympathy with the view that the IS interior is already beginning to look old and a bit boring (with all the random buttons just thrown on), for example.

However, the stuff they write about the driving experience utterly mystifies me. Most obviously, they report rolls and growls which simply do not exist.

My wife had an Audi A4 diesel courtesy car for a month (which should tell you something in itself) and, while I accept the A4 is about the change, it wasn't in the same league (other than the interior, which was superb). To drive, it was light years behind. This was not my view (well, actually it was, but I'm admitting I'm not neutral), it was my wife's! And she is used to Audi.

There's an argument this doesn't matter but I think it does. Poor reviews put off buyers not just because they feel the car may be disappointing, but also because it's just not "cool" to drive such a car. I can't help but think it's something Lexus should tackle.

[Rabbers]

Yes, it would be nice to see Lexus trying to influence the motoring media to better effect with the minimum aim

of cultivating a more objective view of their products, but I suspect they have concluded, probably rightly, that

any major effort would be a waste of cash and resources given that German premium saloons have long since

achieved so unassailable a position as to make national origin synonymous with quality, real or perceived it

matters not. Even competition among themselves acts as a reinforcement of their "German-ness" as a selling

proposition, it being quite amusing in this regard to see Opel (i.e. GM) trying to upgrade and exploit its identity

as a German manufacturer by using Claudia Schiffer in its current international advertising.

The regrettable result for Lexus is that journalists, often with dubious objectivity, will continue to use the Germans

as the yardstick by which to measure its products, and I doubt if we are going to see much change.

[LexusCT200H]

What-Car always puts German cars first. Pointless reviews.

Exactly, no suprise there. These German cars are really over rated. Ive had 13 German cars (all VW's) within the past year. All of which have been total garbage. All these cars were 2005+ with less than 100k mileage. All had full service histroy etc and well looked after. One of which I kept for 3 years and sold this year. It just kept throwing up engine management light codes every month. I dont know why but it felt like VW have programmed this as the light would come up on the exact same date after some months. All the reviews for Volkswagens say they are ulta-reliable and give them 5 star rating but when it comes to relaility I would give it 2. I have mates with Audi (using same engine as my VW) and they have the exact same problem. Then we have Toyota reviews for Whatcar, always at the bottom, given 2-3 stars overall rating. Toyota's rating for reliability was given 3 out of 5 because of recalls yet they are bullet proof.

Its a good thing you brought a Lexus over that Mercedes, on the long run it will do you good. Mercedes are using Hybrid technology for the first time whereas Lexus have many years experence (from Toyota too) which means they would have been tested for any faults on the long run.

[ganzoom]

It's interesting up until now I've not thought about the bias of reviewers due to advertising....

Part of my job is to write/review scientific literature, and as you can imagine any hint bias due to influence from any drug company is taken very seriously. But clearly in the car journalism market there's no transparency at all.

In the past I've really only read reviews from the likes of Evo, or Chris Harris, whom on the whole are quite frank...Expect for a love of 911s which I think is a more generation thing rathe than financial driven bias.

But I really so find the love reviewers have for mid-range BMW/Mercs bizzar...oh well I suppose it goes to show money spent on marketing does work!!

[Rabbers]

Gang's analogy between possible biases in motoring journalism and undue influence by, for example, drug companies

on published scientific papers regarding their products is perfectly apt except, obviously, for the greater need for

transparency in the latter field. To be compared to motoring journalists would not be considered flattering by most

bona-fide clinical or pharmacological researchers but, as they are themselves fully aware, their published opinions are

measurable in terms of potential sales by manufacturers in both industries, and there is no doubt that sponsorships,

free trips to exotic places and sundry other forms of personalized entertainment have been know to influence

professional ethics.

[baxlin]

I'm very interested in this thread, as although I haven't tried the C300 Hybrid, my current daily drive is a manual C220 Exec, with stop-start. This is due to be replaced at the beginning of next month by an IS300h Advance.

I've thoroughly enjoyed the last two years with the Merc, in particular the fairly amazing mpg, but it will be good to go back to an auto. So if this thread's still open, I could well revisit.............

Malcolm

[rayaans]

I'm very interested in this thread, as although I haven't tried the C300 Hybrid, my current daily drive is a manual C220 Exec, with stop-start. This is due to be replaced at the beginning of next month by an IS300h Advance.

I've thoroughly enjoyed the last two years with the Merc, in particular the fairly amazing mpg, but it will be good to go back to an auto. So if this thread's still open, I could well revisit.............

Malcolm

My wife has a C220 albeit an older version without the stop start. Frankly, I think its crap lol - rattles like a ship, things going wrong, only 27mpg in my hands - my RX gets more lol

[baxlin]

My wife has a C220 albeit an older version without the stop start. Frankly, I think its crap lol - rattles like a ship, things going wrong, only 27mpg in my hands - my RX gets more lol

Surprised at that mpg, is it manual or auto? I've had mine since new (13 reg), it's now done 21000 miles, no rattles, quiet for a diesel - in fact silent at the side of my b-i-l's Mondeo.

From what I've read on here, the Lexus won't return the mpg I'm getting, but as petrol is cheaper than diesel, it shouldn't matter.

Can't wait to get it!

[Deadloak]

I couldn't stand the Mercedes dealerships, and chose an IS300h F-Sport. Reliability and service are #1 on my list.

[rayaans]

My wife has a C220 albeit an older version without the stop start. Frankly, I think its crap lol - rattles like a ship, things going wrong, only 27mpg in my hands - my RX gets more lol

Surprised at that mpg, is it manual or auto? I've had mine since new (13 reg), it's now done 21000 miles, no rattles, quiet for a diesel - in fact silent at the side of my b-i-l's Mondeo.

From what I've read on here, the Lexus won't return the mpg I'm getting, but as petrol is cheaper than diesel, it shouldn't matter.

Can't wait to get it!

Wife's has 74k on it now and it's an auto. I'm on about the engine specifically, it rattles too much IMO, but then, this is my first experience with a diesel. I've only ever owned petrol cars

[ganzoom]

My wife has a C220 albeit an older version without the stop start. Frankly, I think its crap lol - rattles like a ship, things going wrong, only 27mpg in my hands - my RX gets more lol

Surprised at that mpg, is it manual or auto? I've had mine since new (13 reg), it's now done 21000 miles, no rattles, quiet for a diesel - in fact silent at the side of my b-i-l's Mondeo.

From what I've read on here, the Lexus won't return the mpg I'm getting, but as petrol is cheaper than diesel, it shouldn't matter.

Can't wait to get it!

I'll be amazed if you find the C220 to be refined after spending some time with the IS300H. When driven normally (ie: not thrashing the throttle), the IS300H is almost as refined as my all electric Nissan Leaf....and the Leaf has no internal combustion engine!!

As for mpg, now that I've got a few thousand miles on ours, the engine is lossening up nicely. I'll be amazed if a C220 can achieve nearly 70mpg on a 3hr long 130 mile trip that involved been stuck in London traffic for the last 30 miles :)

[baxlin]

As I said, Gang, I can't wait to get the Lexus!

[Blisteringblue]

Totally agree, recently drove a mad 645 miles in a day and got out the car feeling like it was a trip to the local Tesco. Effortless driving. Won't even be looking next time but will push the boat out to an F-Sport for some middle age crisis-ness

[ganzoom]

Totally agree, recently drove a mad 645 miles in a day and got out the car feeling like it was a trip to the local Tesco. Effortless driving. Won't even be looking next time but will push the boat out to an F-Sport for some middle age crisis-ness

I'm thinking may be fitting the F-sport front bumper/nose on to our non-sport version once prices fall, and parts starts appearing on eBay etc. Cannot see it been that hard to do :)