Paying For Car Damage Privatley

Bluesman · January 3, 2015

It's interesting to see which of the posters here immediately got defensive after I posted. Interesting indeed.

As far as I remember you were quite happy to tell other LOC members to lie and basicly commit fraud as far as their car insurance policies were concerned. I responded as I would to anyone who urged LOC members or anybody else to lie and withold information frpom their insurance company which is Fraud. What did you find interesting and defensive about that? Mike.

TigerFish · January 3, 2015

I can only assume different companies behave differently. My old mk1 Sport was reversed into in a car park. A helpful bystander left me the van details under my windscreen wipers. I informed my insurers and also the police. After the police interviewed the guy and decided to proceed no further (leaving the scene etc), no claim was eventually made (as I sold the car). On renewal, my premium was hiked up as in their exact words "statistically, if you have been hit once, you are more likely to be hit again". What a load of *****, they are robbing bartstewards. Anyway, after some heated phone calls, they subsequently removed the details from the file and dropped the renewal back down (I moved companies as a result anyway). I can therefore see both sides of the coin here, and you just need to go the route you are most comfortable with. If it were down to me, I would keep schtum though.

Sent from my Iphone using Lexus OC

normski2 · January 3, 2015

I can only assume different companies behave differently. My old mk1 Sport was reversed into in a car park. A helpful bystander left me the van details under my windscreen wipers. I informed my insurers and also the police. After the police interviewed the guy and decided to proceed no further (leaving the scene etc), no claim was eventually made (as I sold the car). On renewal, my premium was hiked up as in their exact words "statistically, if you have been hit once, you are more likely to be hit again". What a load of *****, they are robbing bartstewards. Anyway, after some heated phone calls, they subsequently removed the details from the file and dropped the renewal back down (I moved companies as a result anyway). I can therefore see both sides of the coin here, and you just need to go the route you are most comfortable with. If it were down to me, I would keep schtum though.

Sent from my iPhone using Lexus OC

Yep, I can see why you say that .....read my post above....similar outcome. They really are two faced robbing bar stewards are they not? They do nothing to promote honesty.

noby76 · January 3, 2015

Yep, I can see why you say that .....read my post above....similar outcome. They really are two faced robbing bar stewards are they not? They do nothing to promote honesty.

hence my question of what benefit does it bring to the driver to inform his insurance company even when he is not making a claim?? why do they need to know about an incident involving my vehicle if I am not putting in a claim?

I thought we all clued up enough to know by now that 'Terms and conditions' of a company our drafted in order to

cover the company's back side,
have a get out clause
benefit the company.

'Terms and conditions' never set out to benefit the customer or policy holder in any way.

And not sure why a customer will be committing fraud if he settles a 3rd party repair without involving his insurance company. the customer has not gained anything by not phoning his insurance company so how can this be deemed fraudulent act or practice?

If problems arises for the 'not at fault' drivers vehicle after a repair was carried out, he would be covered under the 'Supply of Goods and Service Act 1982' regulation so long as he has a copy of the billing invoice so wont need the muscles of an insurance company to persuade the garage. moreover are garages not meant to legally apply a form of guarantee of a job/repair they carry out on a vehicle over a period of time??

Bluesman · January 4, 2015

And not sure why a customer will be committing fraud if he settles a 3rd
party repair without involving his insurance company. the customer has
not gained anything by not phoning his insurance company so how can this
be deemed fraudulent act or practice?

Its fraudulent if you knowingly give the wrong information to a question or fail to declare something such as not reporting an accident you may have had. Its as simple as that. It dosent matter that you feel there is no benefit for them or Party A or Party B, those are the rules.

If problems arises for the 'not at fault' drivers vehicle after a repair
was carried out, he would be covered under the 'Supply of Goods and
Service Act 1982' regulation so long as he has a copy of the billing
invoice so wont need the muscles of an insurance company to persuade the
garage. moreover are garages not meant to legally apply a form of
guarantee of a job/repair they carry out on a vehicle over a period of
time??

And as we know these problems that may appear later are always easy to resolve with the garages bending over backwards to help you. In your dreams.

There is little point in arguing these points anymore you all know what the rules and the law is and its up to you to decide which route you take.

Insurance companies arnt there to play fair they are there to make as much money as possible and if they find out you have lied or witheld information they will say thankyou, by the way we wont be paying out on your claim and we wont be insuring you again.

Its up to you. Mike

Bluesman · January 4, 2015

I can only assume different companies behave differently. My old mk1 Sport was reversed into in a car park. A helpful bystander left me the van details under my windscreen wipers. I informed my insurers and also the police. After the police interviewed the guy and decided to proceed no further (leaving the scene etc), no claim was eventually made (as I sold the car). On renewal, my premium was hiked up as in their exact words "statistically, if you have been hit once, you are more likely to be hit again". What a load of *****, they are robbing bartstewards. Anyway, after some heated phone calls, they subsequently removed the details from the file and dropped the renewal back down (I moved companies as a result anyway). I can therefore see both sides of the coin here, and you just need to go the route you are most comfortable with. If it were down to me, I would keep schtum though.

Sent from my iPhone using Lexus OC

Yep, I can see why you say that .....read my post above....similar outcome. They really are two faced robbing bar stewards are they not? They do nothing to promote honesty.

I agree with you but they have the whip hand and you have to dance to their tune. Mike

ganzoom · January 4, 2015

Just to play devils advocate. In my insurance policy it states to notify of all accidents no matter how trival....

But the term 'accident' isn't defined any where. So does me accidentally hitting a kerb and scuffing an alloy wheel count as an 'accident'?? What about if I accidentally hit a small animal on a country road and scuff the paint on the front bumper?? What's the difference between an accident and say an unplanned incident between me and another car??

noby76 · January 4, 2015

@Mike

Its fraudulent if you knowingly give the wrong information to a question or fail to declare something such as not reporting an accident you may have had. Its as simple as that. It dosent matter that you feel there is no benefit for them or Party A or Party B, those are the rules.

No this is not a fraud since you will not be benefiting anything by not disclosing an incident involving your vehicle which did not involve in an insurance claim. I think we need to understand, I am not saying one should never notify their insurance company but i feel the only time to notify them is if the incident is deemed relevant to be logged with your insurance i.e. a big shant which involved in injuries and will involve 1000's of repair bills. but a small bumper scratch or slight paint work damage which might cost say £300 to put right?? get real..

choosing not to answer 'yes' on paper to a minor incident which did not involve an insurance claim and which you deem not to be relevant is not fraud since you will not be profiting or gaining anything by answering 'No'.

but by answering 'Yes' to this question as others have confirmed on here they had to fight their corner in order to get the information removed from their file after reporting a minor incident involving their vehicle to their insurance company, which resulted in a hike on their insurance premium. as i already confirmed some clauses stated in the insurance 'Terms and Conditions' are there to only make money and nothing of benefit to the customer.

And as we know these problems that may appear later are always easy to resolve with the garages bending over backwards to help you. In your dreams

Not in the dreams if you know how to fight your corner..we all know garages will try and wiggle their way or admit fault out of a botched job. regardless of if it was a minor accident repair job, a respray job or wrong engine oil used during a service. hence the supply of Goods and service Act is in place to give customers a form of protection.

An you right there is no point arguing these points as we all know the insurance companies rules and laws and sometimes the rules and laws are there to profit the companies and nothing to do with 'helping' the customer out.

I know the decision to take if i find my self in this situation where by i didn't have to put in a claim through my insurance.. Good Day

Bluesman · January 4, 2015

@Mike

Its fraudulent if you knowingly give the wrong information to a question or fail to declare something such as not reporting an accident you may have had. Its as simple as that. It dosent matter that you feel there is no benefit for them or Party A or Party B, those are the rules.

No this is not a fraud since you will not be benefiting anything by not disclosing an incident involving your vehicle which did not involve in an insurance claim. I think we need to understand, I am not saying one should never notify their insurance company but i feel the only time to notify them is if the incident is deemed relevant to be logged with your insurance i.e. a big shant which involved in injuries and will involve 1000's of repair bills. but a small bumper scratch or slight paint work damage which might cost say £300 to put right?? get real..

choosing not to answer 'yes' on paper to a minor incident which did not involve an insurance claim and which you deem not to be relevant is not fraud since you will not be profiting or gaining anything by answering 'No'.

but by answering 'Yes' to this question as others have confirmed on here they had to fight their corner in order to get the information removed from their file after reporting a minor incident involving their vehicle to their insurance company, which resulted in a hike on their insurance premium. as i already confirmed some clauses stated in the insurance 'Terms and Conditions' are there to only make money and nothing of benefit to the customer.

And as we know these problems that may appear later are always easy to resolve with the garages bending over backwards to help you. In your dreams

Not in the dreams if you know how to fight your corner..we all know garages will try and wiggle their way or admit fault out of a botched job. regardless of if it was a minor accident repair job, a respray job or wrong engine oil used during a service. hence the supply of Goods and service Act is in place to give customers a form of protection.

An you right there is no point arguing these points as we all know the insurance companies rules and laws and sometimes the rules and laws are there to profit the companies and nothing to do with 'helping' the customer out.

I know the decision to take if i find my self in this situation where by i didn't have to put in a claim through my insurance.. Good Day

@Mike

Its

fraudulent if you knowingly give the wrong information to a question or

fail to declare something such as not reporting an accident you may

have had. Its as simple as that. It dosent matter that you feel there is

no benefit for them or Party A or Party B, those are the rules.

No

this is not a fraud since you will not be benefiting anything by not

disclosing an incident involving your vehicle which did not involve in

an insurance claim. I think we need to understand, I am not saying one

should never notify their insurance company but i feel the only time to

notify them is if the incident is deemed relevant to be

logged with your insurance i.e. a big shant which involved in injuries

and will involve 1000's of repair bills. but a small bumper scratch or

slight paint work damage which might cost say £300 to put right?? get

real..

If you have nothing to gain why

would you deliberately chose to answer the question, have you had any

accidents in the last 5/6 years with a lie?

Why would you not

inform your insurance comapny that you have been involved in an accident

when you know you have, its part of your terms and conditions which you

agree to when taking out the policy in the first place?

Answer, because you are concerned you will be charged more when it comes to taking out a new policy or renewing your old one.

That makes it fraud, if you lie on any part of your proposal form its fraud and if it went to a court of law you would lose hands down.

If you lie to any question on a form knowingly its fraud, it dosent matter what you feel the advantage is for telling a lie when you fill the form in and you lie its fraud.

As for kerbing your wheels thats down to you to decide if you tell them or not.

Of course there are other reasons why people lie on their insurance forms and

thats because if your car has been involved in an accident and you have

the damaged repaired the insurance company would want the V5 stamped Cat

A,B,C,D. which of course makes your car less desireable and reduce its value.

I have had 3 accidents non of which was my fault all of which were reported to my insurance company. my son has had 2 accidents neither was his fault so thats 5 occassions the insurance co could have hit our NCB and up our premiums but they didnt, all we had to do was show that all our uninsured losses were recovered (policy excess) and have the 3rd parties insurance company admit their insured was fully to blame for the accident.

Now I think I have made the position as clear as I can there is no point in me replying anymore you all agree you have to inform your insurance company and not lie on forms, you may think thats unfair. well life isnt fair. Mike

noby76 · January 4, 2015

Mike i clearly get your point here. but its up to the individual to determine if its a relevant incident to answer yes or no to. the question we need to ask our selves is why does my insurance company need to know if i have had a £300 bumper repair or a touch up paint job during the last 5 years or not what is in it for them?? wait for it.... more money..

i can understand disclosing this information to them if the incident involved 1000's of pounds in repair bills, a claim or injuries.

as you confirm its down to one to disclose to them if they kerbed their wheels or hit badger crossing the road as those also falls under the term 'Accident' so why would a minor bumper or slight paint repair not fall under the same scenario.

like you confirmed life isn't fair hence it isn't fair for them to dip their hands into my pockets either. am happy we can understand this from both sides of the coin.

finest1 · February 5, 2015

hi all,

thanks for all your contributions. i thought i'd update you and this thread.

as you already know i dealt with the driver privatley.

my insurance rang me and asked me how it went. (don't forget i had already asked them for advice)

it was not the same person i had spoken to. anyway, they "logged" the incident, but i thought i'd share some of the conversation points with you:

the insurance agent told me that it would have better to go through them as we'd be protected in case the other party claim for further injuries.

if i went through the insurance, it would not affect my excess or my no claims, as i am not requesting any work done on my car, for example, if i had damage i needed fixing, then thats when my insurance would be activated. but as there was no damage, the insurance would have worked on getting the damaged car fixed. i was explaining that £250 that i paid has saved a whole load of hassle, and there is no way the insurance would have paid £250 for a scuff. the garage would have charged more.

i had told them that i had written out a disclaimer which he signed. the insurance agent told me it does not really mean anything, and if the injured party makes a claim, they would still have to deal with that claim. the waiver can help, but may not, depending on the case.

the insurance asked me for the drivers details, and later that day the insurance wrote to me and confirmed that they spoke to the driver, who said he was happy to be dealt with privatley and will not be making a claim

whilst logging the basic details, i was trying to explain to the agent that i had scuffed the driver's bumper, and there was no damage to my car. i don't think the agent understood this,as it would seem that regardless of the "damage" it was still an incident, and it should be recorded. so if that being the case, we would be spending all day informing the insurance that you parked under a tree and bird pooped on the car, you had X amount of near misses today, you were on the motorway and stone flicked on the window...

after the conversation i asked how is this being filed? agent said it is a note on my profile. would it affect my premium? he was not sure as sometimes it could and sometimes it may not, he couldn't tell me.

so, now my insurance need renewing, when asked if i had any accidents, do i declare yes, or no?

dave1 · February 5, 2015

Declare yes. There are various options then such as 3rd party hit me, hit 3rd party, no claim etc etc.

noby76 · February 5, 2015

"so if that being the case, we would be spending all day informing the insurance that you parked under a tree and bird pooped on the car, you had X amount of near misses today, you were on the motorway and stone flicked on the window..."

Above was my point all along

if the renewal is being done through a comparison site you can test it out and declare Yes and run another test by declaring No whilst all other details remain the same and confirm to us the difference in quotation. this is just a test to confirm if indeed premiums do go up, stay the same or go down if a Yes or No is declared even if the incident did not involve an insurance claim.

P.S since you have told your insurance about this you would need to declare Yes when you come to finalise your quote since the incident is now on an insurance record.

Bluesman · February 5, 2015

If you now declare now after knowingly telling the insurance company there had been an accident they wont look favourably at your proposal being squeeky clean but as a dishonest proposer. Insurance companies use databases they all have access too this information. Lots of them use lie detecting software which isnt falable but it all stacks up their armamant of tools to catch you on the most honest of mistake.

I have been asked the questions have you had any etc in the last 5 years and I have said yes and then they proceed to tell me what it was.

Its heavily stacked against you these days to answer any insurance question dishonestly either by accident or for other reasons.

finest1 · March 2, 2015

hi all,

i thought i'd give you another update regarding my car insurance renewal.

as usual, as i do every year, i ran my details in some comparison websites to get an idea of insurance. i obviously had a quote of £800 something (can't remember) from my previous insurer. as i ran my details and declared my incidents, i got quotes half that price!!! intrigued i called up the company and spoke to them. although it took around 40 minutes to make sure they captured all my details etc, they quoted me £425!!! so i called up my current insurer and asked if they could match it. they said no. so i asked them what my previous years quote was. £575 the replied. so i asked if my incidents made a difference this year. they said most probably. i phoned up the new insurer and double checked all my details including above incident. "its still showing as £425 sir".

i asked why are they so competitve. the agent said they are a new insurance company started in 2014, maybe thats why, but he doesn't really know. anyway, i signed up with them. the insurers name....don't laugh...sure thing! insurance (underwriters allianz).

rayaans · March 2, 2015

Its not a good idea to lie to your insurance company. Note I said they ask you if you have had an ACCIDENT and not a claim in the pas 5/6 years. If you lie to them and they find out you can lose your cover and you may then find out insurance companies refuse you insurance in the future.

Lie at your peril. Mike

Actually when you fill the form in online - it says "how many claims have you had in the past 3 years (5 years for some companies)?" Therefore, claims are 0 so you arent lying to them at all

Bluesman · March 2, 2015

Its not a good idea to lie to your insurance company. Note I said they ask you if you have had an ACCIDENT and not a claim in the pas 5/6 years. If you lie to them and they find out you can lose your cover and you may then find out insurance companies refuse you insurance in the future.

Lie at your peril. Mike

Actually when you fill the form in online - it says "how many claims have you had in the past 3 years (5 years for some companies)?" Therefore, claims are 0 so you arent lying to them at all

The ones that I have been on just recently ask for Accidents. Mike

rayaans · March 3, 2015

Its not a good idea to lie to your insurance company. Note I said they ask you if you have had an ACCIDENT and not a claim in the pas 5/6 years. If you lie to them and they find out you can lose your cover and you may then find out insurance companies refuse you insurance in the future.

Lie at your peril. Mike

Actually when you fill the form in online - it says "how many claims have you had in the past 3 years (5 years for some companies)?" Therefore, claims are 0 so you arent lying to them at all

The ones that I have been on just recently ask for Accidents. Mike

Fair enough, just making sure. So if they ask for accidents you have to disclose it? But if they ask for claims then you dont?

I was just wondering, if you get in a slight bumper scrape with another car and pay for their car damage in cash, how would the insurance company know if you had a scrape in the first place?

Bluesman · March 3, 2015

Its not a good idea to lie to your insurance company. Note I said they ask you if you have had an ACCIDENT and not a claim in the pas 5/6 years. If you lie to them and they find out you can lose your cover and you may then find out insurance companies refuse you insurance in the future.

Lie at your peril. Mike

Actually when you fill the form in online - it says "how many claims have you had in the past 3 years (5 years for some companies)?" Therefore, claims are 0 so you arent lying to them at all

The ones that I have been on just recently ask for Accidents. Mike

Fair enough, just making sure. So if they ask for accidents you have to disclose it? But if they ask for claims then you dont?

I was just wondering, if you get in a slight bumper scrape with another car and pay for their car damage in cash, how would the insurance company know if you had a scrape in the first place?

You could go on and on and on and in the end up with so many different parameters and variables you know what is what and its up to you to answer honestly. Mike