Starter Contacts Replaced - Result And Lexus Dealer Avoided

[harrylime]

As per my other thread I've had intermittent starting problems for a week or so. The Battery tested OK and based on the opinions of the good people on this forum,it pointed toward the starter solenoid contacts as being the fault. I bought new contacts off eBay and took the car to an independent Porsche specialist, who today replaced the contacts, checked the starter etc. It's early days but so far it looks as if I have a good result, touch wood.

The contacts cost around £15. The Lexus main dealers ( I tried two) wanted £432 inc VAT in labour to do the work. The Porsche specialist, a very nice chap, estimated £160, and charged only £140 inclusive of VAT. The job did not faze him at all. At a third of the Lexus cost, this proves that 1. there are good, skilled people out there who will offer a great service at reasonable cost, and 2. that Lexus dealers charge extortionate rates. I can't believe it. Nearly £300 saved. The independent chap is Porsche trained, I believe and has all the latest equipment. The only thing I missed was free coffee and biscuits (although the specialist is nearer to home so not applicable as I did not wait, I dropped off yesterday and picked up today.). As it is, the children will eat this Xmas.

I have not gone to a back street, dodgy outfit. This garage had Porsche Carreras, a newish Bentley Continental and a BMW X5 parked outside. I chose this place because I imagine that Porsches can be challenging to work on and wanted to ensure that attention to detail was probably high on the list of priorities. As there seem to be no Lexus specialists in or near South Yorkshire, this is a good result all round.

[Titch LS]

Hugh, glad you got it sorted. Hopefully, you shouldn't have any more starting problems for a good long time. A good independant is a real bonus when owning an LS. I have an independant garage I use; the owners are ex-Lexus trained and charge reasonble rates, unlike rip-off Lexus dealerships. Well done, enjoy your LS ownership.

[Docp]

Where was this out of interest?

[harrylime]

M

It was PE Specialsit cars at Grimethorpe. They are 2 Porsche trained chaps. I do not know them and have no connection to them. I met John for the first time yesterday when I took my car in. It was a long shot because their website etc talks about European cars, but he has worked on lexuses before and took this job in his stride.

Their website is at http://www.pecarspecialists.co.uk/

[ambermarine]

Hugh

It is heartwarming to hear you have found a specialist who as no problem or is phased by the complexity of a job.

The issue over dealership prices is a constant gripe in most peoples eyes but in the dealerships defence they have massive overheads in comparison to a small operator who basically works from one job to another.If you look at the fixed costs of running a dealership with all the franchise costs staff costs and site costs it is understandable that thier labour and parts rates will be higher .

As for the description rip-off I draw the line at that(not your words)

In my experience the dealerships ( I have dealt with different ones in twenty years of owning a Lexus) are approachable and will if spoken to in a negotiating tone will try to come to some arrangement.

If that is not possible than by all means try to find a good independant and there are more of them now than when I first started with a Lexus but personally if my Lexus requires the attention of a trained Lexus technichan then its Lexus that will be doing the job.

[harrylime]

Hugh

It is heartwarming to hear you have found a specialist who as no problem or is phased by the complexity of a job.

The issue over dealership prices is a constant gripe in most peoples eyes but in the dealerships defence they have massive overheads in comparison to a small operator who basically works from one job to another.If you look at the fixed costs of running a dealership with all the franchise costs staff costs and site costs it is understandable that thier labour and parts rates will be higher .

As for the description rip-off I draw the line at that(not your words)

In my experience the dealerships ( I have dealt with different ones in twenty years of owning a Lexus) are approachable and will if spoken to in a negotiating tone will try to come to some arrangement.

If that is not possible than by all means try to find a good independant and there are more of them now than when I first started with a Lexus but personally if my Lexus requires the attention of a trained Lexus technichan then its Lexus that will be doing the job.

I will acknowledge that main dealers will have higher overheads in some areas, although premises expenses will be offset a little by sharing premises with the sales showrooms etc. Small operators still need the same tools and up to date diagnostic equipment, lifting equipment which needs statutory testing, employers and public liability insurance, rent, rates, NI contributions etc. etc. Many of the costs involved will be on a par. Small operators will also have to spend far more on marketing and advertising because they are not provided with a steady stream of customers from the sales side, as are main dealers, in effect a captive audience. They will not have an income stream from warranty claims, which the main dealer will also have. I estimate that a main dealer will earn well in excess of £230,000 per annum from each mechanic, if they are almost fully occupied. They will also have a healthy mark up on all parts they use, as they charge full retail price. I don't know about negotiating a price, I don't feel comfortable haggling as if in a Moroccan marketplace. The last time tried it, earlier this year, I was told I already had a discount rate of £90 per hour because it is an older car. I did not use the word rip off, as you say, but I did use the word extortionate and would stand by that word, to be honest. I would be interested in the actual profit generated by my local dealer. I understand that I drive a luxury car but it is about getting reasonable value for money

[steve2006]

If mine ever fails again I'm going where you went,my back's never been the same since changing those contacts :)

[ambermarine]

Hugh

I think you are getting a bit out of kilter on how the finances of a manufacturers franchise are derived and shared

The profits and costs are pooled in a franchise sales and servicing , believe it or not the lowest profits are from the sales of individual cars in percentage of gross turnover The last figures I had privy to was a £2k profit on a 2014 Lexus flagship model costing £110k

In terms of marketing and promotions Lexus Uk only provide basic funding for that, usually on new model launches the individual dealerships bear the cost of any local promotions and are expected to contribute towards national advertising.

If you compare the staffing and front of house levels required to run a franchise rather than an independant service shop with two mechanics and possibly a part time bookeeper/receptionist it is easy to see the differentials

The franchise as also to meet targets on sales and movement of inventories that a small independant does not have to worry about as most of his work comes through one door and out of the other usually by word of mouth or the odd advert in the local rag .

Lexus also have a say in what costs and charges are presented to the customer as they see thier prestige product as just that and do not want it being seen as any run of the mill marque, this philosophy was borne out by the early split of Toyota franchised dealerships selling Lexus models in the late 90s which raised the anti in franchise costs.

If you look at the servicing and repair costs world wide for Lexus you will find they are on a par with the UK taking into consideration currency fluctuations.

I am saying one should try to get a better price than was first offered for the job required but the other side of the coin is if you want quality you have to pay for it and if Lexus was'nt providing quality we would'nt be having this discussion.

[harrylime]

Hugh

I think you are getting a bit out of kilter on how the finances of a manufacturers franchise are derived and shared

The profits and costs are pooled in a franchise sales and servicing , believe it or not the lowest profits are from the sales of individual cars in percentage of gross turnover The last figures I had privy to was a £2k profit on a 2014 Lexus flagship model costing £110k

In terms of marketing and promotions Lexus Uk only provide basic funding for that, usually on new model launches the individual dealerships bear the cost of any local promotions and are expected to contribute towards national advertising.

If you compare the staffing and front of house levels required to run a franchise rather than an independant service shop with two mechanics and possibly a part time bookeeper/receptionist it is easy to see the differentials

The franchise as also to meet targets on sales and movement of inventories that a small independant does not have to worry about as most of his work comes through one door and out of the other usually by word of mouth or the odd advert in the local rag .

Lexus also have a say in what costs and charges are presented to the customer as they see thier prestige product as just that and do not want it being seen as any run of the mill marque, this philosophy was borne out by the early split of Toyota franchised dealerships selling Lexus models in the late 90s which raised the anti in franchise costs.

If you look at the servicing and repair costs world wide for Lexus you will find they are on a par with the UK taking into consideration currency fluctuations.

I am saying one should try to get a better price than was first offered for the job required but the other side of the coin is if you want quality you have to pay for it and if Lexus was'nt providing quality we would'nt be having this discussion.

Hugh

I think you are getting a bit out of kilter on how the finances of a manufacturers franchise are derived and shared

The profits and costs are pooled in a franchise sales and servicing , believe it or not the lowest profits are from the sales of individual cars in percentage of gross turnover The last figures I had privy to was a £2k profit on a 2014 Lexus flagship model costing £110k

In terms of marketing and promotions Lexus Uk only provide basic funding for that, usually on new model launches the individual dealerships bear the cost of any local promotions and are expected to contribute towards national advertising.

If you compare the staffing and front of house levels required to run a franchise rather than an independant service shop with two mechanics and possibly a part time bookeeper/receptionist it is easy to see the differentials

The franchise as also to meet targets on sales and movement of inventories that a small independant does not have to worry about as most of his work comes through one door and out of the other usually by word of mouth or the odd advert in the local rag .

Lexus also have a say in what costs and charges are presented to the customer as they see thier prestige product as just that and do not want it being seen as any run of the mill marque, this philosophy was borne out by the early split of Toyota franchised dealerships selling Lexus models in the late 90s which raised the anti in franchise costs.

If you look at the servicing and repair costs world wide for Lexus you will find they are on a par with the UK taking into consideration currency fluctuations.

I am saying one should try to get a better price than was first offered for the job required but the other side of the coin is if you want quality you have to pay for it and if Lexus was'nt providing quality we would'nt be having this discussion.

I do take your point and there are probably jobs on my Lexus that I will choose to entrust to a Lexus dealer. I still consider their rates to be poor value for money. Interestingly, I got an identical quote from a Toyota dealer. All that being said, they lost this job and no doubt many more due to what I view as extortionate charges. I imagine the majority of their customers are business users who are less concerned with cost. The one point you are not taking on board and the main point I was making, and which is mentioned in your last sentence was that I got quality and paid much less for it. I feel like a mug for taking it to the main dealer for the previous work, almost £200 to change a gearbox sump gasket. Two technicians training at Porsche Leeds and Porsche Sheffield this time around. I can do without the fancy front of house and coffee.

[Titch LS]

In my experience all dealerships tend to offer poor value for money regardless of car brand. That's why we hunt around for a good independent garage. For example, I remember once at a local Honda dealers paying £28 for some ATF. The next time I re-ordered the same (not too long after), it had gone up to £42! Their lame excuse was that "the price of oil has gone up". Yes,it had gone up some, but nowhere near as much as to make that price difference. I think the words 'rip-off' describes this scenario pretty well actually.