Undocumented Differences Between Standard And Premium Navigation

te0xdsm · December 10, 2014

I wonder if somebody has gone for the "standard" navigation instead of the premium and has found things that were not know to be missing on the "standard" one?

I myself went for the standard and the first surpise was that the "navigation" tab on the multi-information display is only available with premium (so no guidance/compass for me on the multi-information display)

Anybody has found anything else that came as a surprise?

Dom.

galad · June 10, 2015

I am new to the forum, but I have got my NX 200t delivered few weeks ago and I also went for the standard Nav.

For me, the connected services and touch pad were two things that drove me off the premium one - I don't like both of them. First one is just another useless thing that only lets hackers to steal your car easier and the second one is just style over ease of use, which I am not fan of.

Anyway - I have found few differences already:

1) First one you mentioned already - the nav info is not present on the multi-info screen. This feature is only available with the premium I guess.

2) The nav voice - you cannot set it to cut into audio when driving. Your audio will just play (radio or ipod or anything else) and you will hear your music and nav lady at the same time, so if you like to listen music loud, then you might miss the exit or so.This is just stupid, because I think it would be just a simple software update or so and it would be very good feature.

3) The rear camera - in standard one, the lines just show you how the car will drive straight, they will not "bend" when you will turn the wheel.

4) The voice commands - you can use them only for phone contacts, to call them etc. But you will not get it to work with nav, radio etc.

And of course there are no connected services with standard nav, but this was already known.

Did you find any other differences ? Or maybe is it only in 200t and you have a different system in 300h ?

ColinBarber · June 10, 2015

not sure how you think hackers can steal your car with the connected services? Live traffic updates are good, probably not worth paying the extra money though. The third option now on the IS Advance seems a good compromise, essentially the standard nav but with a camera (although without the active guidelines).

rayaans · June 11, 2015

Are there any speaker differences as with the IS?

Goggy · June 11, 2015

I have a 300h on order but decided not to go with Sat Nav, mainly because I would rarely need it and when I do my Iphone Sat Nav does the job well enough. I only need that about once a month. So i had Panoramic roof instead. I have to say I think most Sat Navs are still way over priced in most cars these days. had it been £500 I may have been tempted, but at £1k it was something I can live without.

galad · June 11, 2015

not sure how you think hackers can steal your car with the connected services? Live traffic updates are good, probably not worth paying the extra money though. The third option now on the IS Advance seems a good compromise, essentially the standard nav but with a camera (although without the active guidelines).

I have read it somewhere that BMW and Range Rover had a lot of cars stolen last year due to the connected services. I don't remember the details or where I've read it, but it was about the security wholes in such solutions that were lettings hackers to localize the car and then open and start it remotely. I haven't heard about Lexus having the same problems, but I just didin't want to risk.

I am just always checking all the risks and potential gain for me when I am buying such new gizmos. And the connected services are just not worth it for me - especially with the touch pad :)

And live traffic updates are also on standard nav - I have it as well.

Are there any speaker differences as with the IS?

I don't know about IS, but there is this MarkLevinson system coming with the premium - it is 14 speakers and it sounds just amazing. With standard, you get 10 speakers and Pioneer system, but it is very, very good - much better than the upgraded (but not the top ones, just the updated) systems in Audi or BMW.

I have a 300h on order but decided not to go with Sat Nav, mainly because I would rarely need it and when I do my iphone Sat Nav does the job well enough. I only need that about once a month. So i had Panoramic roof instead. I have to say I think most Sat Navs are still way over priced in most cars these days. had it been £500 I may have been tempted, bot at £1k it was something I can live without.

I have went for 200t with standard nav and panoramic roof. And panoramic roof was a great choice - got to say, it is great, so well done we :) But I agree that sat navs are overpriced - this is true, especially that there is a mirrorlink in NX, but I just wanted to have all in one box, just in case, because I need sat nav even less than once a month.

rayaans · June 14, 2015

That wasnt connected services hacking. It was OBD2 port thefts, completely different. Connected services just gives you traffic and stuff - you cant really access the cars locking system or ignition system from the connected services

galad · June 15, 2015

That wasnt connected services hacking. It was OBD2 port thefts, completely different. Connected services just gives you traffic and stuff - you cant really access the cars locking system or ignition system from the connected services

Of course you can. Lexus is even creating (or maybe already did) a special app for a smartphone with which you will be able to connect to your car, unlock it, start engine or just start AC while eating breakfast. This app will be available only in US as far as I know, but this shows, that it is possible. But for this, you have to have the premium nav system, because only this system with connected services can be attached to your account on Lexus portal, which then can be used with the app (you can also connect the premium system to your account in UK and whole EU). It is similar with BMW and RR and other manufacturers. The problem with this type of solution that I have is, that the security of such portals is as good as your IT security guys that you are hiring. And even if you have very good guys, there can always be a hacker that will be able to hack it. And I hardly believe that Lexus is using totally different software versions for US and other markets. It is probably the same, but we have those additional features disabled, but they are there. So this is what I meant, that for me it is not worth it. Maybe, if all the features that are available in US would be available also here, then maybe.

rayaans · June 15, 2015

That wasnt connected services hacking. It was OBD2 port thefts, completely different. Connected services just gives you traffic and stuff - you cant really access the cars locking system or ignition system from the connected services
Of course you can. Lexus is even creating (or maybe already did) a special app for a smartphone with which you will be able to connect to your car, unlock it, start engine or just start AC while eating breakfast. This app will be available only in US as far as I know, but this shows, that it is possible. But for this, you have to have the premium nav system, because only this system with connected services can be attached to your account on Lexus portal, which then can be used with the app (you can also connect the premium system to your account in UK and whole EU). It is similar with BMW and RR and other manufacturers. The problem with this type of solution that I have is, that the security of such portals is as good as your IT security guys that you are hiring. And even if you have very good guys, there can always be a hacker that will be able to hack it. And I hardly believe that Lexus is using totally different software versions for US and other markets. It is probably the same, but we have those additional features disabled, but they are there. So this is what I meant, that for me it is not worth it. Maybe, if all the features that are available in US would be available also here, then maybe.

The connected services in the US are completely different. They use Lexus Enform which isn't the same as connected services in the UK

Besides, the standard NX without premium nav has an OBD port. If they wanted your car, they'd take it using any method possible. They can take cars with steering locks too.

If it gets stolen, you have insurance to cover you anyway

galad · June 16, 2015

That wasnt connected services hacking. It was OBD2 port thefts, completely different. Connected services just gives you traffic and stuff - you cant really access the cars locking system or ignition system from the connected services
Of course you can. Lexus is even creating (or maybe already did) a special app for a smartphone with which you will be able to connect to your car, unlock it, start engine or just start AC while eating breakfast. This app will be available only in US as far as I know, but this shows, that it is possible. But for this, you have to have the premium nav system, because only this system with connected services can be attached to your account on Lexus portal, which then can be used with the app (you can also connect the premium system to your account in UK and whole EU). It is similar with BMW and RR and other manufacturers. The problem with this type of solution that I have is, that the security of such portals is as good as your IT security guys that you are hiring. And even if you have very good guys, there can always be a hacker that will be able to hack it. And I hardly believe that Lexus is using totally different software versions for US and other markets. It is probably the same, but we have those additional features disabled, but they are there. So this is what I meant, that for me it is not worth it. Maybe, if all the features that are available in US would be available also here, then maybe.

The connected services in the US are completely different. They use Lexus Enform which isn't the same as connected services in the UK

Besides, the standard NX without premium nav has an OBD port. If they wanted your car, they'd take it using any method possible. They can take cars with steering locks too.

If it gets stolen, you have insurance to cover you anyway

Come on man - this was what I have just mentioned that this is one of the things that drove me off the premium nav. I don't want now to go into discussion about OBD2 ports etc. If you want to know, you can connect to OBD2 port also remotely, if there is software on your car allowing this.

And yes, that was the name of the app - Lexus Enform. But as I mentioned, I hardly believe that Lexus is using totally different software for us here, than they use in US. I work in IT and I have seen a lot of softwares and the common rule is that you need to take what is already and modify it just a little bit if required. So this is why I think that the features available in US are also somewhere in code here, but they are just disabled. I don't believe that Lexus has spent billions of Yens to develop a totally different software for UK, EU, US and other markets nav systems. They have most likely developed just one and then adapted it a little bit by just disabling few features for different markets.

ColinBarber · June 21, 2015

By itself the vehicle doesn't have any Internet connection, it needs either Bluetooth or WiFi tethering from your phone, so you cannot do remote start etc. on the UK system. The keyless entry system is something you want to be more concerned about.

lotusdave · August 12, 2015

Google wired hack jeep Cherokee for a fascinating article and video where wired (the it / business magazine) take over a jeep remotely via connected services. They were sitting on a sofa somewhere and after playing games with the ac and stereo they turned off the engine... And then turned off the brakes so he drove into a ditch. (not on the public highway!).

Makes you think!

galad · August 12, 2015

Exactly - I've also read about it.

This is one of the things they did, but spent very little money for securing it. Just to have something for marketing department and to sell/earn more. This is probably the same with all manufacturers, but we just don't hear about it. I've seen only one article a while ago that I mentioned earlier, that BMW and Range Rover had a lot of cars stolen due to those connected services.

ColinBarber · August 16, 2015

You can steal a Lexus easily if you keep the smart access feature enabled, doesn't matter about connected services.

The Jeep has its own Internet connection - it has a built-in 3G modem connected to the Sprint network. The IS and NX don't have a direct Internet connection, they need to teether to a device via Bluetooth or wifi. If you don't teether it to a device then it is impossible to remotely access the vehicle.

galad · August 25, 2015

You can steal a Lexus easily if you keep the smart access feature enabled, doesn't matter about connected services.

The Jeep has its own Internet connection - it has a built-in 3G modem connected to the Sprint network. The IS and NX don't have a direct Internet connection, they need to teether to a device via bluetooth or wifi. If you don't teether it to a device then it is impossible to remotely access the vehicle.

OK, so you want to tell me, that every time you are driving your car you are either, not connecting your phone via blutooth or disabling your internet access in phone when connecting it ? Just to make sure, that no hacker, that is boring in home, won't drive your car into tree, with you in it, just for fun ?

This is stupid for me. And connected services only adds few things, which are not worth the price in my opinion. This is one of the gadgets that marketing department just uses for ads, but is just not worth premium. And this is the same for all companies imo. Same with few other things, like active parking assistant (which is taking ages to park), mirrorlink or internet in a car in general (even in traffic jam it is easier to just use your smartphone if you really need to check something).

Papasb · February 9, 2016

Can someone else confirm that the "normal" sat nav doesn't include broader car voice commands?

the very first reply suggests this is the case...

rayaans · February 10, 2016

http://blog.lexus.co.uk/lexus-navigation-system/

Papasb · February 10, 2016

38 minutes ago, rayaans said:

http://blog.lexus.co.uk/lexus-navigation-system/

The problem I have is with this comment...

"Voice control function"

There is no definition of what this means. If someone has the standard Nav and has anything other than being able to call a contact in a phone book, it would be nice to know. Mine ONLY does phone book name calling. Nothing else...

galad · February 10, 2016

1 hour ago, Papasb said:

The problem I have is with this comment...

"Voice control function"

There is no definition of what this means. If someone has the standard Nav and has anything other than being able to call a contact in a phone book, it would be nice to know. Mine ONLY does phone book name calling. Nothing else...

Voice commands in standard nav are limited - you can only call your phonebook entries by it, nothing else. And this is not working with your phone saved voice entries, you have to store them in the car again. It is useful, though, because it lets you quickly call your most important contacts.

Papasb · February 10, 2016

16 minutes ago, galad said:

Voice commands in standard nav are limited - you can only call your phonebook entries by it, nothing else. And this is not working with your phone saved voice entries, you have to store them in the car again. It is useful, though, because it lets you quickly call your most important contacts.

I have slowly drawn that conclusion. I suppose I am not that fussed. I was more than a little surprised that a £35k car doesn't have it as part of the Nav offering.

my previous cars all had it. And they weren't 'luxury' brands like the Lexus.

as I said. Not fussed. Never really used it. Just surprised it wasn't standard.

galad · February 10, 2016

3 minutes ago, Papasb said:

I have slowly drawn that conclusion. I suppose I am not that fussed. I was more than a little surprised that a £35k car doesn't have it as part of the Nav offering.

my previous cars all had it. And they weren't 'luxury' brands like the Lexus.

as I said. Not fussed. Never really used it. Just surprised it wasn't standard.

So we are in the same boat here :) I was the same at the beginning, but the same as you - never really used it. I much prefer to use the phone assistant if I really have to and put the destination into nav by myself, especially, that voice command for nav is just not working very well with any car manufacturer (maybe Mercedes has it working a little better as I saw in my friends car, but not by much - it is also not perfect and you are ending up defining it manually).