Your Thoughts/comments Will Be Appreciated....

[ganzoom]

LoL, not sure I would describe my addiction to motoring as 'serious' ....more like a stupid illogical waste of money, and time :)

I've been with Unvieristy of Leicester now for 15years, initially student now lectuerer....the new DMU buildings are very nice.

[Steve_L]

I could go completely off topic as I had 2 children graduate from DMU but let's stick to the original press review for Bluenose. The 300h is the first petrol engine I have had for 20 years and the first ever auto box. I find it very relaxing and quiet to drive and travel in.

All cars are personal preference, as Ganzoom illustrates, so don't just look at the performance and noise levels, also take in your surroundings - IMO far better than the German competition - and make your own mind up. Comfort and space much improved cf Series 2 IS.

[rayaans]

Even though only a small majority of people buy a 335i or M3, the 'Halo' effect means most 320D drivers seem to think they are driving a 'sporty' car, when in reality they are not, and in my view the IS300H far more advanced than a 320D. But it works for BMW interms of sales, hence all the 320Ds driving around with M badges stuck on every where, and generally driving like ****.

Sadly Lexus don't feel the need to bring out the IS350 in the UK.

And that would be the perfect car for me! I wonder why they bring it to the UK. Barely does any less MPG than the IS250 and the extra road tax would be justified by the performance

[Rabbers]

I confess, not being a petrolhead, that I have lost the thread of this thread (so to speak), and am left wondering

what cars are being compared to which, and why. In fact, my heart goes out to Lexus and, in particular, to its

marketing people, who must be wondering what customer groups they should be targeting if the 300h is

ultimately going to make any enduring impact on a segment of the market which has few, if any, bad cars.

Having developed and launched the 300h on the basis of a "sporty" image, literally so in the case of the F-Sport,

Lexus has fully met its objective in terms of design aesthetics but failed to match competitors in terms of speed

and acceleration, which, expressed in a few simple numbers, are all that most prospective customers want to

know about a car's ability to perform compared to another. Therefore, while competitors in the same segment,

almost all of them German, successfully back up their sportiness of image with good performance (indeed with

various levels thereof within any given model range), this being a practice in which BMW notably excels, Lexus

does not. As a result, it has not only offered ammunition to journalists who might be prejudiced against the

brand but also invited prospective customers to make somewhat confusing comparisons with models of a

completely different character and level of performance. To some extent, Lexus have themselves to blame

as the result of an understandable anxiety at launch to get away from their sedate image by wooing younger

age-groups while trying, at the same time, to attract or retain older ones by touting the 300h as a form of

automotive Viagra.

The 300h, Lexus should stress much more than they do, performs irreproachably in 99.9999% of the situations

any driver is likely to encounter. Among its many demonstrable virtues, which prospective buyers can explore

in whatever order of desirability they prefer - and some of which arguably represent benchmarks for the

segment - are tangible high quality, elegance, numerical exclusivity, comfort, quietness, economy, ease and

precision of handling and, of course, the aforementioned sportiness of image. Other boxes could no doubt

be added and ticked, but speed-based excitement or the prospect of it are not among them.

[doog442]

I agree that comparing a 335i with the IS300H is complete unfair, for a start if you spec up a 335i to the same level as the luxury IS trim with leather and nav the price difference is nearly £10K....and thats before you even start to consider the running costs of the 335i....Mine current reading 25mpg longterm, and on a B road blast I've seen 8-9mpg.

I actually compared it with a 135i and no I dont think its unfair to compare. I did back to back in both hence my other post stating that there are alternatives. I dont do high mileage, so MPG aside it is fair to compare it with what is a comparable car and now in two series form.

Remember the OP was concerned about 'performance'. None of us know what performance means to the OP but to the average driver its night and day in the one simple suggestion I mentioned. As for spec, how far do you go ? Would you rather have electric seats than more power ? I also wasnt looking at new cars (someone else can take the depreciation hit) but as you know there are reams of 1 and 3 series BMW on forecourts around the land that could crucify a IS300h...

I personally found no discernable difference in convenience / gadgets / sound system in the IS300h versus the competitors (nothing that would tilt it) but what I did find was a massive difference in handling and power....and performance was his concern hence my post.

What I would also add that in my travels around Lexus / BMW and Merc dealers...Lexus dealers were virtually deserted, there were no customers. When the public talk with their feet Toyota seriously need to sit up and take notice.

It strikes me that the IS300h is a niche car and im sure that wasnt the intention. Ive been with Lexus for 7 years but trust me I really couldnt wait to get out of their showroom.

[ColinBarber]

Having developed and launched the 300h on the basis of a "sporty" image, literally so in the case of the F-Sport,

Lexus has fully met its objective in terms of design aesthetics but failed to match competitors in terms of speed

and acceleration, which, expressed in a few simple numbers, are all that most prospective customers want to

know about a car's ability to perform compared to another. Therefore, while competitors in the same segment,

almost all of them German, successfully back up their sportiness of image with good performance (indeed with

various levels thereof within any given model range), ....

The 300h primary market is for company car buyers and completes directly against low powered diesels which also can be purchased with sporty looks. The IS isn't designed and built solely for the UK market, and with Lexus GB/Europe being a niche player they don't have the ability to bring out all variants in this region.

Whilst certainly not sporty, if you want more performance you should be looking at the IS250, and its replacement the IS200t once it comes out. Unfortunately the IS350 is unlikely ever be released in this country however that successfully completes against the german equivalents in the US.

[ganzoom]

I actually compared it with a 135i and no I dont think its unfair to compare.....

It strikes me that the IS300h is a niche car and im sure that wasnt the intention. Ive been with Lexus for 7 years but trust me I really couldnt wait to get out of their showroom.

But you wouldn't compare a 120d to a 135i??!! Personally that what I see the performance of the IS300H, so why would you compare the IS300H to a 135i??

It any thing the 135/335i are niche products, they sell in tiny numbers compared to 120/320D.

Personally we found the IS300H to be the best package compared to BMW/Merc/Jags, and the fact there is less of them on the road just makes the car more exclusive :)

[rayaans]

Having developed and launched the 300h on the basis of a "sporty" image, literally so in the case of the F-Sport,

Lexus has fully met its objective in terms of design aesthetics but failed to match competitors in terms of speed

and acceleration, which, expressed in a few simple numbers, are all that most prospective customers want to

know about a car's ability to perform compared to another. Therefore, while competitors in the same segment,

almost all of them German, successfully back up their sportiness of image with good performance (indeed with

various levels thereof within any given model range), ....

The 300h primary market is for company car buyers and completes directly against low powered diesels which also can be purchased with sporty looks. The IS isn't designed and built solely for the UK market, and with Lexus GB/Europe being a niche player they don't have the ability to bring out all variants in this region.

Whilst certainly not sporty, if you want more performance you should be looking at the IS250, and its replacement the IS200t once it comes out. Unfortunately the IS350 is unlikely ever be released in this country however that successfully completes against the german equivalents in the US.

Thats very true, The IS350 may be obsolete when the IS200t comes out. Should easily be tuned to 250hp but even if its left at its current 235hp, itll still manage the 0-60mph run in about 6.5-7s.

Hopefully it gets a decent transmission to match! Cant see why it would be too difficult to stick the 8 speed in the IS200t like the one in the IS350 to help with fuel efficiency and quicker shifting as well as the G sensor in the body of the transmission which helps to keep the car in the right gear around turns.

Imagine, imagine if there was an IS300t :P one can only dream

[Rabbers]

Having developed and launched the 300h on the basis of a "sporty" image, literally so in the case of the F-Sport,

Lexus has fully met its objective in terms of design aesthetics but failed to match competitors in terms of speed

and acceleration, which, expressed in a few simple numbers, are all that most prospective customers want to

know about a car's ability to perform compared to another. Therefore, while competitors in the same segment,

almost all of them German, successfully back up their sportiness of image with good performance (indeed with

various levels thereof within any given model range), ....

The 300h primary market is for company car buyers and completes directly against low powered diesels which also can be purchased with sporty looks. The IS isn't designed and built solely for the UK market, and with Lexus GB/Europe being a niche player they don't have the ability to bring out all variants in this region.

Whilst certainly not sporty, if you want more performance you should be looking at the IS250, and its replacement the IS200t once it comes out. Unfortunately the IS350 is unlikely ever be released in this country however that successfully completes against the german equivalents in the US.

Judging by Lexus' levels of spending on promotion and advertising for the 300h in the main European markets,

which have been unprecedented for the brand, I think they have been aiming to create more than a niche product.

But, whatever the case may be, they have certainly managed to widen an unsatisfactorily small market share/

customer base and, by so doing, pave the way for new lines, it being inconceivable that Toyota wants Lexus to

remain a niche brand forever. And even though the 300h's numbers might not translate into more than a nibble

at the combined segmental share of the Germans, Lexus must feel encouraged by the frequency with which such

press headlines as "Has Lexus finally found the answer to BMW and Mercedes etc.?" have appeared. Of course,

the headlines have usually been intended to set up a negative answer, but there have nevertheless been enough

borderline opinions to lead to the conclusion that the brand is (at last) becoming a serious contender for non-

niche status.

[ColinBarber]

Obviously Lexus aren't niche in the US, but in the UK they have remained at around 0.5% market share for the last 10 years. The current IS is selling a lot less than the older model at the same point in its lifecycle but the country is in a different economic state and Lexus now have a wider product range, with the CT, which is taking some sales away from the IS.

[Richard1200]

This thread has lots of comments about the performance of the IS300h. I have a IS250 for a day while my IS300h is in the dealers. I have had 3 older model IS250's but over the last 16 months of driving the IS300h had forgotten what it felt like. Do I like it? no.

I have changed, or my driving style has changed and I find the IS250 too jerky. That may or may not be a good word but from standstill it reacts to throttle input too quickly for me even in ECO mode. I definately like the CVT gearbox.

To put this in context I have been retired for many years years now, 66 years old and I want a calm smooth ride/drive. I am not in a hurry to get anywhere and certainly do not need a 3.5 litre engine. The environmentle positives of the IS300h is also a plus point for me.

For me the IS300h is a great car and suits my life style perfectly. (These comments should have gone on the Driving Differantly thread?)

[DJP]

Bluenose1940 has the 300h today I believe. Be interesting to read his take given he's still in the 2nd Gen.

Sent from my Iphone using Lexus OC

[doog442]

I actually compared it with a 135i and no I dont think its unfair to compare.....

It strikes me that the IS300h is a niche car and im sure that wasnt the intention. Ive been with Lexus for 7 years but trust me I really couldnt wait to get out of their showroom.

But you wouldn't compare a 120d to a 135i??!! Personally that what I see the performance of the IS300H, so why would you compare the IS300H to a 135i??

It any thing the 135/335i are niche products, they sell in tiny numbers compared to 120/320D.

Personally we found the IS300H to be the best package compared to BMW/Merc/Jags, and the fact there is less of them on the road just makes the car more exclusive :)

No i wouldnt compare with a 120d....! BMW still makes cars right across the spectrum so a 135i with a straight six petrol engine is the reason why people might compare a 135i with a company who still produce a straight 6 in the IS250 . Thats why I went there, my intention was an IS250 until i was reminded performance wise it couldnt justify itself when compared with the opposition.

However the issue is that if you walk into any Lexus dealership and enquire about an IS250 you will be magically pushed towards the IS300h and hence why people like me are making comparisons. Dont blame me, the IS250 is dead on its feet and Lexus are pushing the IS300h....the only real alternative as far as they are concerned but they know its not an alternative to people who dont care much for mpg and value a decent bit of performance that doesnt involve diesel.

I had 20K plus to spend on a prestige car, A 120d beemer isnt and never will be, a 135i maybe, for simply for whats under the bonnet. Finance figures, in particular showing guaranteed future minimum values arent really that strong for IS250 or the IS300h which is worrying as Lexus themselves appear to have little faith in future resale values (unlike BMW where values are steady) , sales figures arent exactly promising; and service costs are going through the roof according to posts on this very forum.

Im not a petrol head but I can appreciate a decent driving experience. I may well come back to Lexus but not in IS300h format im afraid.

[ganzoom]

Doesn't the IS250 have a NA V6? And the straight 6 in the 335i is a blown unit, it like

comparing the 4 cyclinder engine in the Micra to the 4 cylinder unit in a Golf R :P

For us having both a 335i (same engine as the 135i) and a IS300H is the perfect combination on the driveway. One is a mental performance orientated saloon that feels more like sports car than even my old Nissan 350Z on a twisty B road, and the other the perfect every day car for eve thing else's.

I wish you better luck with you BMW ownership experience than what I've experienced. My 335i has been the most unreliable car I've owned to date (including a £700 Peugeot 106)!! It's the only car to have ever left me stranded by the side of the road needing to be towed :(

Infact the whole ownership experience with BMW has put me off buying another 'premium' German brand again....£170+vat/hr labour is standard labour rate doesn't help.

[rayaans]

I actually compared it with a 135i and no I dont think its unfair to compare.....

It strikes me that the IS300h is a niche car and im sure that wasnt the intention. Ive been with Lexus for 7 years but trust me I really couldnt wait to get out of their showroom.

But you wouldn't compare a 120d to a 135i??!! Personally that what I see the performance of the IS300H, so why would you compare the IS300H to a 135i??

It any thing the 135/335i are niche products, they sell in tiny numbers compared to 120/320D.

Personally we found the IS300H to be the best package compared to BMW/Merc/Jags, and the fact there is less of them on the road just makes the car more exclusive :)

No i wouldnt compare with a 120d....! BMW still makes cars right across the spectrum so a 135i with a straight six petrol engine is the reason why people might compare a 135i with a company who still produce a straight 6 in the IS250 . Thats why I went there, my intention was an IS250 until i was reminded performance wise it couldnt justify itself when compared with the opposition.

However the issue is that if you walk into any Lexus dealership and enquire about an IS250 you will be magically pushed towards the IS300h and hence why people like me are making comparisons. Dont blame me, the IS250 is dead on its feet and Lexus are pushing the IS300h....the only real alternative as far as they are concerned but they know its not an alternative to people who dont care much for mpg and value a decent bit of performance that doesnt involve diesel.

I had 20K plus to spend on a prestige car, A 120d beemer isnt and never will be, a 135i maybe, for simply for whats under the bonnet. Finance figures, in particular showing guaranteed future minimum values arent really that strong for IS250 or the IS300h which is worrying as Lexus themselves appear to have little faith in future resale values (unlike BMW where values are steady) , sales figures arent exactly promising; and service costs are going through the roof according to posts on this very forum.

Im not a petrol head but I can appreciate a decent driving experience. I may well come back to Lexus but not in IS300h format im afraid.

I went to a dealer and the 250 prices are insane. They're trying to push the 300h vehicles but they gave £3k discount max if buying new unless you go to a broker where you get about £5k

The dealers themselves are giving broker prices for the 250 so its perfect if you dont drive much!

[doog442]

Doesn't the IS250 have a NA V6? And the straight 6 in the 335i is a blown unit, it like

comparing the 4 cyclinder engine in the Micra to the 4 cylinder unit in a Golf R :P

For us having both a 335i (same engine as the 135i) and a IS300H is the perfect combination on the driveway. One is a mental performance orientated saloon that feels more like sports car than even my old Nissan 350Z on a twisty B road, and the other the perfect every day car for eve thing else's.

I wish you better luck with you BMW ownership experience than what I've experienced. My 335i has been the most unreliable car I've owned to date (including a £700 Peugeot 106)!! It's the only car to have ever left me stranded by the side of the road needing to be towed :(

Infact the whole ownership experience with BMW has put me off buying another 'premium' German brand again....£170+vat/hr labour is standard labour rate doesn't help.

I think your'e right, a decent combination of both would be nice .... :D but to fair, I do diddly squat miles so can afford to take the risk . My Lexus journey hasnt been fault free with the IS200 bought from a main dealer back in 2007 only a few years old.Missed services (covered up by the dealer), New dual mass flywheel / clutch..plus the tyre wear issue that only Tony bones could resolve , I had the knocking issue that was never resolved despite numerous returns to the dealers, replacement top mounts / shocks etc plus the rotting alloys.

I binned it with relatively low mileage (83k) having been baby'd but still had a suspected cranks shaft oil leak filling the cabin with oil smell, 4 totally rotted out alloys (despite being replaced) so my tyres were constantly deflating and a central locking system that was locking people in the car...then out of the car. Plus it still knocked like a barn door in in a hurricane. I still loved it however, but reliable ?...nah my 89 Belmont SRI was faultless as was my 82 Lancia HPE .

As for the beemer, purchased at the same age...it has a small rattle that Im happy to ignore due to the suspension set up and the roads around here.

I did loads of research on the N55 engine (is yours the N54? ). One thing that struck me on the N54 was realibility issues, vanos bolts, turbo issues and other things...rarely saw these issues (reliability) on this forum in relation to any Lexus petrol engine on newish cars apart from people lobbing in turbos etc. However it then became obvious loads of people were modding / mapping the hell out of N54 /N55 engines, using them for track days and generally driving them like they stole them.... I appreciate yours is heavily modded but is the reliability issue due to the things being hammered ?

Its fair to say Ive sacrificed a smooth/ lush cabin experience for something only run flats can produce ... trust me I'll be back to compare and offer an honest opinion on my current steed.

[ganzoom]

Very off topic all this. But yes my 335i is a N54 block.

The break downs on my car has nothing to do with the mods, most the mods are suspension/handling related. All the problem I've had are all well know 'issues'. Electric water pump, high pressure fuel pump, oil filter gasket failure, torque converter gasket failure, coil pack failure, cam gasket failure, serpentine belt failure...all in the last 12 months, on a car with less than 50k on the clock, and serviced above/beyond BMWs service schedule.

So you can probably see why it came to replacing our reliable Civic that's done 86k without a single fault the thought of having another BMW on the driveway was enough to give me nightmares!!!

But back on topic, currently away on holiday at moment, but cannot wait to get back to the UK to complete the purchase of the IS....probably the first time I've looked forwards to coming back to work :)

[doog442]

Very off topic all this. But yes my 335i is a N54 block.

The break downs on my car has nothing to do with the mods, most the mods are suspension/handling related. All the problem I've had are all well know 'issues'. Electric water pump, high pressure fuel pump, oil filter gasket failure, torque converter gasket failure, coil pack failure, cam gasket failure, serpentine belt failure...all in the last 12 months, on a car with less than 50k on the clock, and serviced above/beyond BMWs service schedule.

So you can probably see why it came to replacing our reliable Civic that's done 86k without a single fault the thought of having another BMW on the driveway was enough to give me nightmares!!!

But back on topic, currently away on holiday at moment, but cannot wait to get back to the UK to complete the purchase of the IS....probably the first time I've looked forwards to coming back to work :)

enjoy the new car :-)

[Rabbers]

I was just now sorting through some Italian magazines from 2013 which, in their reviews of the 300h, included

detailed acceleration figures I have not seen elsewhere. Since one of them (Auto, August 2013) coincidentally

also reviewed the BMW 135i (xDrive) in the same issue, I thought the figures would perhaps be of interest to

some contributors to this thread:

IS300h F-Sport 135i (xDrive)

0-60kmh (in seconds) 4.35 2.18

0-80 6.46 3.24

0-100 9.09 4.64

0-120 12.31 6.28

0-140 16.30 8.40

0-160 21.46 11.03

0-180 28.46 14.17

80-100 in D 2.72 1.27

80-120 6.10 2.85

80-140 10.25 4.94

80-160 15.68 7.53

80-180 23.27 10.52

40-60 in D 1.75 0.99

40-80 3.89 2.05

40-100 6.56 3.45

40-120 9.90 5.05

40-140 14.06 7.13

The figures for the 300h F-Sport were substantially confirmed by Quattroruote (October 2013) and also by

Panorama Auto ( August 2013) for the Premier model, this latter review having also compared figures for ECO

and S-Mode:

ECO-Mode S-Mode

0-50 3.4 3.1

0-80 6.4 5.9

0-90 7.8 7.1

0-100 9.2 8.3

0-120 12.4 11.5

0-130 14.8 13.2

[DJP]

It's a bit like comparing apples with pears though.

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[Richard1200]

It's a Hybrid.

Business users have it because of the BIK savings, I have one because it's a Lexus and it's cheaper to run as I have to pay for my fuel. This topic is turning into a performance battle with other makes. If you want more performance have a BMW or Mercedes 3litre or whatever.

How many UK business users would have chosen this car if the tax benefits were the same as a German saloon?

[doog442]

It's a Hybrid.

Business users have it because of the BIK savings, I have one because it's a Lexus and it's cheaper to run as I have to pay for my fuel. This topic is turning into a performance battle with other makes. If you want more performance have a BMW or Mercedes 3litre or whatever.

How many UK business users would have chosen this car if the tax benefits were the same as a German saloon?

Its a performance battle because the OP in his thread highlighted his main concern as lack of performance.

[Rabbers]

It's a bit like comparing apples with pears though.

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

More than just a bit, I would say.

On the other hand, OT as they are (like much of this thread), the S- v. ECO-mode figures for the 300h are

interesting - and would have been more so had NORMAL been added to the comparison - insofar as they

quantify the available performance boost as being quite significant. Also, these are the only published

acceleration figures I have personally seen (although there may well be others) where Lexus' declared 8.3'

for 0-100kmh is actually confirmed.

[ganzoom]

I still don't understand why the OP is comparing the 300H to a 135i??

People in the market for a car likes 135/335 will be looking at S4/M3/RS4/Focus RS/Golf R/Impreza STI....all cars I looked at when I bought my 335i. Yes the IS300H is slow in comparison but none of those cars will get near 30mpg in real life driving (longterm average for my 335i is currently 24mpg), £200-400/year+ road tax, and associated insurance/running costs for brakes, tyres - The way I drive the 335i, I get through a set of rear tyres and front brake pads every 10,000 miles on the 335i. Most people who buy these cars will be looking at the ISF or RCF from Lexus NOT a IS300H.

How many IS300H owners would even entertain the thought of running at 5.0 V8 as their daily drive ??

The IS300H should be and is most often compared to things like the 320d/Merc 220d/2.0 turbo diesels from VW group. Compared to those cars the 300H offers a much nicer driving experience for similar performance level....Hence although I find the 300H too slow and frustratingly un-engaging as a drivers car, I cannot wait to get one on the drive way to use as a daily drive/general family ferrying machine....which to be honest accounts for 90% of our driving needs.

So for 90% of the time I would actually say the IS300H is a better car than our 335i for our needs, and hence as my wife keeps on telling me our 335i is really is just a pointless money pit....But hey we all 'waste' money in different ways :)

[Zotto]

Ehi, I have the solution for performance better than 335i:

Google video:

BMW 335i vs Lexus GS450h 0-260 ;-)