Seized Calipers

[bobbyc]

Morning All,

This is really just a general query and is more to do with my lack of mechincal knowledge.

As everyone knows the IS250 is plagued with issues around seized calipers.

However there is a lot of posts on this forum which state that when this problem is noticed that new calipers are required (funny enough it seems to be Lexus's answer all the time). Is this common or is it easy enough to "unseize" these and Lexus just can't be bothered with the hassle. I would be interested to know.

Thanks Bobby

[normski2]

Take a read here

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/tutorials/article/223-overhaul-of-front-brake-caliper-and-slide-pins/

A rather good write up by Noobie

[johnatg]

Usually the problem is with seized slide pins.

I never quite understand why front calipers need to be replaced for this - you can virtually always get the pins out because they have hexagons and are in 'open' holes. Once the pin is out you can clean everything up and if necessary replace the pins and dust seals.

The rears are different - one of the pins goes in a blind hole. This can seize - often the caliper can be worked off, but sometimes it is just impossible to remove the caliper from the pin without damage.

If you can separate the caliper from the pins, the caliper at least can be saved.

Sometimes of course it is possible for the piston to seize in the caliper - then you can rebuild the caliper but it's a lot of work and may not be worthwhile. As long as the caliper is undamaged you can exchange at much lower cost than new ones (but check with Lexus, especially for the rears - sometimes they have special offers). But you always need to get the caliper off the mounts if you get exchange calipers - they don't come with mounts!

Speaking from personal experience - I damaged a caliper trying to get it off the mount. In the end, I cut it off (by cutting through the pin with an angle grinder) - probably should have done that right away, then exchanged the caliper - the rebuild people accept ones with pins etc stuck in them, but not if you've damaged the caliper by hammering it (!) or tried to drill out a seized bleed screw.

To avoid all this grief, remove the calipers from the pins on a regular (annual?) basis and clean and grease the pins and holes they slide in! This is not included in Lexus service schedules - it should be.

[bobbyc]

Thanks for the replies and it is very interesting. My main point was I wondered if Lexus could even be bothered trying to unseize them if they appeared to be a little stuck. Whereas a "normal" garage may well have a good go at getting them off before resorting to the new (or reconditioned) caliper route.

[normski2]

No they won't bother.

[bobbyc]

In relation to the seized calipers does anyone know if this is a problem with just the calipers fitted to the IS250 (i.e a Lexus design fault) or if this is common with all calipers?

If it is just a desgin fault is there another make (type of) caliper that can replace the standard Lexus ones and reduce the need for these pins to be removed and greased every so often.

[johnatg]

It's a common problem, I think mainly with japanese cars - my MX-5 (Mk 1)(1992) is almost exactly the same design (doesn't have auxiliary drums at the back) with, commonly, the same problems (I used to be tech adviser to the owners club, then Chairman, so I've had plenty of contact with many owners - I 'retired' from the committee three years ago but still have my car and will keep it indefinitely). I must be pretty unique in that my car has all its original calipers - careful cleaning and greasing on a regular basis!

There are alternatives for the IS250 - various big brake kits tend to use fixed calipers with multiple pistons either side of the pads rather than sliding calipers with one piston. But they cost an arm and a leg - certainly not worth changing just for this. (Although they have their advantages - ie better brakes!) Looking after the brakes properly will avoid the problem completely and use of decent discs and pads will provide better brakes than Lexus originals.

(I use MTec discs (grooved and drilled) with redstuff pads (but will get yellowstuff next time))

I did have a problem with my IS250, but that stems from previous owners just relying on Lexus service!

Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance! (not necessarily Lexus service, though!)

[bobbyc]

Thanks for the information John and I will keep a note of it for when I need to replace pads and discs. My rear pads are getting done in the next few weeks so I may get redstuff pads then.

[johnatg]

Actually, I don't bother with redstuff for the rear.

I use Redstuff on the front for fade resistance - they work up to much higher temperatures than oe spec pads (having said that, I have had them fade - but I live close to the Peak District and North Wales, and there are a number of roads where I can guarantee to take the brakes on any car (that I can afford!) to the fade point!) As I said, I'll be trying Yellowstuff next time!

The point is that the friction characteristics of Redstuff are much the same as oe pads but carry on working well past the point (much higher temperatures) where oe pads have faded to zero friction.

But the majority of the heat (70% or more to grab a statistic) is generated at the front - rear brakes do relatively little work. So I use EBC Ultimax (oe equivalent) at the rear. About £21 a set rather than £50 odd for redstuff. (Over a reasonable mileage you will notice that the front pads wear much more than the rears - because they do a lot more work!)

Having said that - I use Redstuff front and rear on the MX-5! It's a much lighter car and has more even weight distribution front/rear than the IS250.

Just my opinion - your mileage may vary!

[bobbyc]

It is very true that it depends on the type of driving you do.

John where is the best place to get the EBC pads from because any I was looking at are well over the £50 mark?.

[johnatg]

I get mine on eBay - eg current item no 130890591729 (redstuff) for front,190734772486 (ultimax) for rear. Use those numbers for an eBay search, or 'IS250 EBC pads'.

Other brands are available! But I've found EBC pads are reliable - but you must bed them in carefully - no hard braking for the first 100 miles at least.

(A friend of mine put new redstuff pads on his MX-5 then went out immediately on the track at Donington and destroyed them in 2-3 laps - bedding in is needed to complete the cure of the pad material)

That applies to all makes of brake pads.

[bobbyc]

Thanks for the numbers it is appreciated.

[uttak IS250]

Dear all, I did it. I have Lexus IS 250, 2008. Rear calipers were totaly seized. I tried to use different oils, lubricants, break fluid, small hammer, big hammer... Only what can help you is heating. Electrical  heating gun is to weak. You need oxygen-acetylene burner and gently hammering in correct place and direction.

[leelacey17]

Dear all, I did it. I have Lexus IS 250, 2008. Rear calipers were totaly seized. I tried to use different oils, lubricants, break fluid, small hammer, big hammer... Only what can help you is heating. Electrical  heating gun is to weak. You need oxygen-acetylene burner and gently hammering in correct place and direction.

That's how mine looked but to be honest after trying heat mine wouldn't budge. I just got a replacement caliper from eBay and changed it over it doesn't take long.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[uttak IS250]

1 hour ago, leelacey17 said:

That's how mine looked but to be honest after trying heat mine wouldn't budge. I just got a replacement caliper from eBay and changed it over it doesn't take long.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Yes, it doesn't take long but you paied 400 lb, I paied one bottle of whiskey :-)

[is200 Newbie]

Circled is the area that you should ensure is clean and free or rust - it not it wont give a good seal to the rubber boot and let moisture and dirt in and it wont be long before the innards rusts and seizes. Not forgetting a good grease (one that does not attack the rubber boots making them slack) and as John said above, make sure to check them and re-grease on an annual basis. I do mine every 6 months as they don't take long to do and its no real hassle.  

[uttak IS250]

15 hours ago, is200 Newbie said:

Circled is the area that you should ensure is clean and free or rust - it not it wont give a good seal to the rubber boot and let moisture and dirt in and it wont be long before the innards rusts and seizes. Not forgetting a good grease (one that does not attack the rubber boots making them slack) and as John said above, make sure to check them and re-grease on an annual basis. I do mine every 6 months as they don't take long to do and its no real hassle.  

Yes, I changed it to the shine and apply good grease. I'll check and grease it every 6 months (summer / winter tires exchange). I bought this car some months ago therefore I have still something to do...

[is200 Newbie]

What grease are you using - everyone has their favourite so you will probably get a few recommendations - I use the Toyota rubber grease and have done for years with no issue.

[uttak IS250]

I used standard copper vaseline grease on the rear calipers. Nevertheless on front I tried to use ceramic grease similar to product in link below, but from local producer. So far so good...

https://www.permatex.com/products/lubricants/specialty-lubricants-brakes/permatex-ceramic-extreme-brake-parts-lubricant-2/

On 10/23/2018 at 7:01 PM, is200 Newbie said: