Full Flush Of Auto Box

[Cotswold Pete]

Just been looking around for how much a full flush of the gear box is

£155+VAT is what I have been quoted - need to check if this includes replacement with Toyota ATF. iV

Anyone else out there who has had a flush - does this sound about right.

With 147K on the clock, they reckon it is 100K overdue, but I have heard of others saying every 40K just go for a oil change (drop the pan and re-fill) this is enough to keep the oil in general good nick.

If the £155 does not cover ATF, where is best place to get it from.

[Malc]

There's lots of historical stuff on this forum about NOT flushing out the gearbox in the Ls400. .............. saving you money and preserving your gearbox by just leaving well alone !

Malc

[9690phil]

I had a few quotes on 430 on average £160 all in. Lexus was that price but that was just drain and fill, they wanted £400ish to drop pan.

[PEPE]

There's lots of historical stuff on this forum about NOT flushing out the gearbox in the Ls400. .............. saving you money and preserving your gearbox by just leaving well alone !

Malc

Yes I agree with Malc. My very knowledgable indie advises, in no uncertain terms, not to touch the gearbox. It took me some time to accept this as I do not like to skimp on the maintenance of my two LS400s.

I have also read in the motoring press that other prestige makes for some time have been making automatic gearboxes "sealed for life." I find this reassuring.

Pepe

[ColinBarber]

Drain the pan and refill is probably the best option. Do that once every year or two rather than risk disturbing things with a flush.

[Titch LS]

There's no such thing as a "sealed for life" gearbox--- it's marketing hype. All fluids will degrade with mileage. My friend's "sealed for life" early BMW X5 has just had its gearbox replaced for £3,000. From new she never had the ATF changed . Big expensive mistake.

[messi]

With bmw and audi even if you change the gear box oil, they still fail. They use the zf gearbox which are rubbish. Sometimes all they need is an ecu update. It's a well known fault on the Bmw and Audi.

[ambermarine]

If you drain the gearbox through the drain plug the amount that comes out is about a sixth of what is in the box.The criteria that I used on my mark 1 after 150k was pump out and replace from the filler tube.This method entailed using a 12v oil pump designed for removing the oil from marine engines that have no sump plug.

The procedure was take out a quart and replace with a quart run round the block repeat the procedure until the dark brown fluid was bright red .Took about 12 litres to do this, laborious but much easier than removing the pan and it does get 80% of the old stuff out.

This method would be best used if the oil was really brown, if the car as done lesser mileage and the oil is in decent condition then use Colin Barbers suggested method which will achieve the end result over a longer period.

[royoftherovers]

My Merc box (W210 2003) was also sealed for life. I change the Autobox oil every 40/50 miles as advised by the best Indies. No problems so far @ 195,000 miles.

Honest John in the Daily Telegraph is also not a fan of Sealed for Life!

Regards

John

[Titch LS]

Sorry to all you "sealed for life" advocates, but I wouldn't want my LS transmission to be put at risk of malfunctioning by keeping old, brown, well used, gunky ATF in there for ever. Don't moan when your gearbox plays up.

[ColinBarber]

Sorry to all you "sealed for life" advocates, but I wouldn't want my LS transmission to be put at risk of malfunctioning by keeping old, brown, well used, gunky ATF in there for ever. Don't moan when your gearbox plays up.

Toyota transmissions aren't sealed for life. They expect the fluid to last and therefore doesn't have a scheduled replacement interval however it should be inspected at every major service and replaced if necessary, long before it gets to a brown gunky state.

[39buss]

I was told the same BMW's that are sold in the UK with sealed for life g/boxes and no dipstick miraculously gain a dipstick when sold in the USA.

I've heard of other makes ( Honda?) who suggest fluid (water,brake fluid, atf) change intervals but dont include it in the service schedule and leave the decision to the owner.

[9690phil]

Also rover had same sealed box, meant to be bullet proof, dont think so

[n4chv]

The advice I have always been given by my Lexus dealer is that there is no fixed interval for changing this. They inspect it at every major service for condition.

Whilst I know fluids have come on leaps and bounds over the years, they will ultimately degrade over time.

For what it's worth, I ran my LS400 for over 13 years and 230k miles and the ATF was only changed once. Cost was around £150 including the fluid.

[PEPE]

In view of all the different opinions I've read up to now I decided to investigate this further today. First I took each one of my two LS400s out for a spin. Then, with both engines warm I took a picture of the gearbox dipsticks and this is what I found:

The dipstick on top belongs to my MK3 with 232,000 miles; and the lower one to my MK4 with 168,000 miles. The fluid of the Mk3 looks better to me which I found surprising.

I then removed the dipsticks the better to see the differences in colour, and, for comparison purposes added a drop of fresh ATF in between the two. This is what I saw:

From this photograph I would conclude that the fluids in my gearboxes are way off from the ideal red shown in the middle. I am also somewhat worried by the colour of the fluid in my Mk4.

Finally, I decided to go through both my OWNER'S MANUAL as well as my SERVICE RECORD booklet. The only reference I can find on this topic is on page 26 and it says under SERVICE SCHEDULE "B":

Check transmission oil for leakage (replace every 36,000 miles).

Now I am totally confused! Who or what should I believe?

My instinct, for my peace of mind, is to replace the ATF in my two cars, but this is not as easy as it sounds since I'll be 74 on Christmas eve . . . no doubt readers will catch my drift . . .

Pepe

[Malc]

Pepe, I'm not sure of the mileage each of your cars will likely cover over the next year or so BUT if it's likely to be less than 10,000 each a year then quite frankly, if you're having no issues with performance, I'd be inclined to give yourself a birthday present and leave well alone ... at least ftb :outforcount:

Malc

[ambermarine]

Jose

The oil in the mark 3 might have been changed at some time the oil in the mark 4 looks about the same as mine did in the mark1 after 150k I would change the mark 4 oil but do it in increments as I suggested .There are marine engine oil removal vacuum pumps for sale at chanderlys which pull out the fluid up the dipstick tube or find a friend with a yacht.

[ColinBarber]

The dipstick on top belongs to my MK3 with 232,000 miles; and the lower one to my MK4 with 168,000 miles. The fluid of the Mk3 looks better to me which I found surprising.

Check transmission oil for leakage (replace every 36,000 miles).

Which service manual states changing every 3 years, the MK3? If so the fluid should be in better condition if it has been changed several times in the past.

Does the MK4 also state a change interval?

[ambermarine]

Colin

The transmission oil check for leaks is in the 'B' service schedule on the Mark 4 and in brackets (change every 36000 miles.)

[Rupert Dubreaux]

The Mk2 and 3 service books for both A and B service state replace fluid every 36000 miles .As Ambermarine's Mk4 service book says the same then it would seem to be common across the LS400 range .

[PEPE]

The Mk2 and 3 service books for both A and B service state replace fluid every 36000 miles .As Ambermarine's Mk4 service book says the same then it would seem to be common across the LS400 range .

Yes, impecable logic.

[Rupert Dubreaux]

The Mk2 and 3 service books for both A and B service state replace fluid every 36000 miles .As Ambermarine's Mk4 service book says the same then it would seem to be common across the LS400 range .

Yes, impecable logic.

Not something I am known for usually . I did change the fluid on one of my Mk3's a couple of years ago using the Lexls method ,the stuff that came out looked like beef gravy it was horrid . I wasn't having any shifting issues and on the dipstick it didn't look to bad .

On my other two I just do drain and fill about 2litres when the engine oils changed once a year ,mainly to keep the cost down it was about a £120 for the fluid to change the whole lot .

[PEPE]

Hi Rupert

I agree with your vivid description. The fluid on my Mk4 certainly looked like 'beef gravy.' The problem is that the amounts picked up on the dipstick are very small so the fluid looks transparent and one reaches the wrong conclusion. I also find it difficult to detect the colour of the fluid on the dipstick. This explains my photographic essay above. Up to now I have no shifting issues but I'm starting to feel a bee inside my bonnet . . .

Pepe

[ambermarine]

Rupert

I cannot recall precisely but the transmission fluid change was not mentioned in the Mark1 service schedule I did it as a precaution as it was filthy and smelt burnt and that is the first warning shot according to the transmission experts.

They also say you should leave a little of the old stuff in as it conditions the seals and the new stuff as a bit of a shocking affect on seals and the like.

[Rupert Dubreaux]

I agree with that logic having heard that it can cause problems replacing all the fluid in one go on a high millage box . The change a few litres at a time seems the safest option .

Bee's in the bonnet Pepe ,not good .