Warped Hubs?

[Damo2]

Quick update from me for those that requested I post back ...

I have now done just over 1000 miles since my last posts on this thread and all is still good since the work that was done on the car in August, with no return of the dreaded steering wheel wobble issues under braking. 

In fact the car is driving just as good now after 112k miles, as when I first got it with 12k miles on the clock..... That said and fingers crossed, I hope this post doesn't put a curse on it!!

As an FYI - the last 1000 miles undertaken have been a mix of distances and duration, including both local and motorway miles.

[catnap]

Good to know, glad you're getting somewhere with yours.

Quick update from me too- I've managed to fix my brake wobble without spending any money. I took the caliper carrier off and sanded the slider pin bores, by using a tight roll of sandpaper (pencil thickness) shoved into a cordless drill and then spun inside the hole while moving it around a bit. This sanded the inside surfaces of the bores, and then they were cleaned out with brake clean. I then re-lubricated the sliders with this stuff (sadly no longer available from that seller) which is the correct Lexus-specified grease (lithium glycol soap-based) for slider pins. Put everything back together and after a week or two of normal braking, the wobble has gone.

I believe the bores were slightly dragging on the slider pins which causes uneven pad application on the disc, which leaves uneven deposits on the brake disc and then makes it feel like the disc is warped. Thoroughly cleaning the bores out so the pins can move freely has helped a lot, and the deposits I assume have been removed from the disc through normal use. I believe my discs have a tiny bit of runout anyway so I might slap some new ones at some point but everything's good for now so I'll probably just leave it alone.

Hope this helps someone.

[Monster-Mat]

Discs themselves - DO NOT WARP, unless there are very poor manufactured items

the Warping comes from small amounts of built up pad material deposited on the disc surface, subsequent brake applications deposit pad material in the same place, until it starts to feel to the driver as though there is an issue with the disk

i suspect that many of the replaced disks have been with eBay products, eBay and some motor factors are flooded with Fake Mintex discs

the possibility of a hub issue are very real, however as some have done, using a run out gauge on the hub, and then with the disc fitted will identify this issue

more often than not the issue is with the caliper, either corroded sliders, corroded pistons or crap build up on the caliper parts that the pads are located within.

most caliper rebuilds ive seen have been very suspect, and short of completely refurbishing the caliper, have never solved the problems, always consider other causes before you believe what a parts fitter in a garage tells, you, the suspension on a modern car is quite complex with finite tolerances which wander as the components wear

there are many reasons for shudder or breaking issues, non are really caused by warped disks

[Damo2]

So here I am back here again....... I went online originally to check my thread on a car I bought back in 2010 with hardly any miles on it as I bought it off a mate and it was his wife's ride...

It is now my daily ride and I have personally put 100K+ miles on the clock  since I bought it....

I have had some issues since then, so see my related posts, but all is good now...Touch wood as they say...

The wheel wobble, steering, brake issue. brakes and hubs??? seems to have all been down to LCA's... appreciate that was my cars prob and not yours..... but my advice is to still check out any suspension parts before or part of brakes renewal. I have now done 3K on the car since all the work I had done last year and it is a joy to drive... Like Brand new!!

Best wishes to all on this thread.. it has been very helpful and def helped me to narrow the issues down..

Have a great 2018 all..

Best

Damo

[catnap]

Bit the bullet, sucked it up and paid £60 for a knuckle/hub assembly from End Of Life Cars on eBay (Leicester). It's just arrived and the bearing is nice and tight and smooth, no noise at all. I'll put it on the car on Sunday and see what's up. Fingers crossed.

[catnap]

I cleaned up the 'new' hub last night and mounted an old brake disc I had in the garage. The dial indicator barely moves now while spinning the disc which means not only did I get lucky and find a good flat hub with a good bearing, but also that I didn't need to replace the brake discs - which I did recently and removed the wobble for a while. Lesson learned, I should have done this a long time ago. 0.25mm runout down to about 0.02mm.

[rincewind]

Great result.  If I remember, max runout is .035 so you’re now spot on.  

[catnap]

Well I haven't put it on the car yet so I'm not going to jinx it! But I'm really hoping this sorts it out.

[catnap]

Passenger hub assembly replaced- and no dice, still shuddering. I took it up onto some quiet roads to try re-bedding the discs and no change, came back with the brakes steaming hot and still pulsing.

So I took the drivers side apart. I found the bearing is a bit loose and the disc has vertical runout when being spun. So I've asked the eBay seller if the drivers' side is in decent nick. If so, I'll have that one too.

Frustrating! The runout on the passenger side is absolutely tiny now, but the drivers side is showing approx 0.4-0.6mm so that's gone as well. It used to be fine but I suppose the bearing getting loose is allowing it to move around more and creating problems.

Also I didn't put the ABS sensor back in 100% the first try so I had the ABS kicking on at low speeds when stopping. Fun day.

[rincewind]

Feeling your frustration on this.  I’ve had my is200 since it was one year old, and have only had this issue very briefly when I put new (Lexus sourced) front discs on.  It turned out that some corrosion spots on the hub were just enough to affect the runout, I properly cleaned the hub and the problem went away.  My issue has always been a knocking noise coming from the drivers side front suspension, never got to the bottom of it.

[catnap]

Yeah I went over both hub surfaces with a wire brush, sandpaper and brake clean- they're pretty clean, but I think the driver's side hub is the rest of my problem. Plus the bearing is on the way out so I might as well do both.

I can't remember the last time I felt like nothing was wrong with it!

PS. I checked the feel of the upper ball joint on the n/s when I was in there- seems pretty solid so I doubt my knocking noise is that. I'm leaning towards engine mounts now.

[rincewind]

I’d be very, very curious to know the result of your knocking noise investigations.  I sort of ignore it now, but there are days when I can’t...

[catnap]

I might be imagining things, but after having the upper ball joint loose from the spindle and then re-torquing it, I'd swear the noise from the front n/s is less. I'll have a really good look at the o/s UBJ when I get the driver's side hub replaced. It's a pain to change because the ball joint spins as you try and tighten it so I had to jack up the spindle from underneath to put pressure on it.

Past that, I'll be damned if I can figure it out. I might get my flatmate to help me look at the engine mounts. As mine's an auto, I can get him to stand on the brakes while in Drive and rev it, and I can watch as the engine tries to rotate on the mounts. I do notice mine will do it if I floor it from a standstill- as the back squats and the front raises up, there's the click/knock from both sides. Maybe that's a clue.

[OldTrout]

On 17/11/2017 at 9:34 AM, catnap said:

Good to know, glad you're getting somewhere with yours.

Quick update from me too- I've managed to fix my brake wobble without spending any money. I took the caliper carrier off and sanded the slider pin bores, by using a tight roll of sandpaper (pencil thickness) shoved into a cordless drill and then spun inside the hole while moving it around a bit. This sanded the inside surfaces of the bores, and then they were cleaned out with brake clean. I then re-lubricated the sliders with this stuff (sadly no longer available from that seller) which is the correct Lexus-specified grease (lithium glycol soap-based) for slider pins. Put everything back together and after a week or two of normal braking, the wobble has gone.

I believe the bores were slightly dragging on the slider pins which causes uneven pad application on the disc, which leaves uneven deposits on the brake disc and then makes it feel like the disc is warped. Thoroughly cleaning the bores out so the pins can move freely has helped a lot, and the deposits I assume have been removed from the disc through normal use. I believe my discs have a tiny bit of runout anyway so I might slap some new ones at some point but everything's good for now so I'll probably just leave it alone.

Hope this helps someone.

It is still available. See

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Proslip

John

 

[catnap]

Both hubs are now on- o/s has a better bearing than it did but it's not as solid as n/s. It should last a while.

However, the brake pulsation is still there. I'm warrantying the discs & pads with ECP as there appears to be a high spot in the disc which stays still when the disc is clocked on the studs. Hopefully this means the disc itself has a problem and not the 'new' hub. I've also seen shims available on Rock Auto which can correct up to a certain amount of runout so I might try one of those too.

Very frustrating. I just want this to be over and done with now, I've been battling this for far too long. Am I right in thinking that you must replace the discs when changing the hub, that they won't 'self-correct' over time?

[lexus22]

For the cost of a new disc, I would (did) change the n/s one at least, as this is the side that I found had the initial problem. 

[catnap]

Ok, I've got the old discs and pads in the garage so I'll put those back on for now, warranty through ECP and put new ones on. I really hope the problem doesn't return.

[lexus22]

Unusual to have a problem with the new disc though, what ecp make was it?

[catnap]

Pagid. The n/s definitely had more runout with the old hub but after swapping it's barely anything. The o/s just had a loose rattly bearing so I figured I'd change it as well- and in the week of driving between the two hubs I noticed the shudder was still there and not going away.

So I figure something's up with the discs. I marked the high spot on the disc with a paint pen (measured using a DTI- 0.03-0.04mm which is just over spec of 0.035) and the high spot stays in the same place on the disc when rotating the disc on the studs to the next set of holes, if that makes sense. So I figured there's something up with the disc and I've got an RMA number with ECP to swap them tomorrow. I know they're difficult about having the original paper invoice so I hope I can find it.

[lexus22]

Yeah, makes sense. Best of luck with ecp though, they like the product back in original packing unopened!! Reckon with new discs (as long as slider pins working and not sticking) your car should be spot on mate.

[catnap]

New discs and pads in the boot. They were a bit funny about it, gave me a lecture about rust between the disc and hub  but swapped them under their "No Quibble" thing.

So, I have to ask. The leaflet for the Pagid discs says that you should go easy for 200-300km, and not try to bed-in the discs & pads. What have you guys been doing? 

Annoyingly, the Pagid website says this, so I don't know what to believe.

[lexus22]

But it's really just common sense, things like brake pads/discs/tyres/new engine parts such as pistons+rings all need a chance to "bed themselves in", just take it easy for 200 miles, worth doing mate. 

[catnap]

Alright, I'll skip my usual procedure and go easy. Cheers

[rincewind]

5 hours ago, catnap said:

Alright, I'll skip my usual procedure and go easy. Cheers

You may want to read this  http://brakeperformance.com/bedding-in-rotors.php

 

[Hadrian]

When I had new discs and pads on my Civic, I was told to take it easy for a few miles.

One of the reasons being (I imagine) is to scrub any coatings off ?