Warped Hubs?

catnap · July 31, 2017

39 minutes ago, lexus22 said:

Hi Phil, I bought new Lexus hoses for mine as mechanic reckoned it was worth a go, don't bother mate!! No real way to check them unless you want to take them off and blow through them, but wouldn't bother, the problem is hub related.

Gotcha. I thought it'd be worth a go, perhaps they'd collapsed internally and were preventing fluid from going back up, therefore holding the caliper on.

I did notice my front bearings differ- one spins very freely but is a little noisy (no rumbles when driving), and the other goes for about half a rotation before stopping, but is silent. Which sounds like the better one to you?

wakhtar · July 31, 2017

Hi Phil,

With the brake lines, it maybe worth bleeding the brakes or changing the fluid if it hasn't been done in a while. Should get rid of a spongy brake pedal and of course confirm the brake lines themselves are good.

With the wheel rotations, my car is the same, one side just needs a gentle push and keeps on going whilst the other needs a fair bit of force and stops after a couple of rotations. I initially suspected that maybe the cause but after changing the calipers with a pair of refurb paged, the problem went away for me and has stayed away after doing about 45k miles these past 16 months.

lexus22 · July 31, 2017

You are right about the pipes collapsing, but the chance of that is VERY slim, unless the car is being used in the desert or in iceland, I reckon that the bearing that only goes half a rotation is no good, thing is that Lexus bearings are not cheap, £60 ish from memory for a blue print bearing, then garage labour to fit them on top of that. I had both front bearings on mine changed a few years ago which made no difference to discs warping and causing the wobble under braking, infact the bearings collapsed again a year later! The garage had obviously not put them in right, although they wouldn't admit it. Do yourself a big favour and get on eBay and buy second hand original Lexus hub assembly which has original bearing for maybe £30-40. With a bit of luck this will probably cure the warping disc saga as well, the same as it did for me!!

catnap · July 31, 2017

1 hour ago, wakhtar said:

Hi Phil,

With the brake lines, it maybe worth bleeding the brakes or changing the fluid if it hasn't been done in a while. Should get rid of a spongy brake pedal and of course confirm the brake lines themselves are good.

With the wheel rotations, my car is the same, one side just needs a gentle push and keeps on going whilst the other needs a fair bit of force and stops after a couple of rotations. I initially suspected that maybe the cause but after changing the calipers with a pair of refurb paged, the problem went away for me and has stayed away after doing about 45k miles these past 16 months.

Full fluid flush done a month or so ago, and I did it when I replaced the calipers too. So I reckon it's good. I also went refurb Pagid from ECP.

catnap · July 31, 2017

59 minutes ago, lexus22 said:

You are right about the pipes collapsing, but the chance of that is VERY slim, unless the car is being used in the desert or in iceland, I reckon that the bearing that only goes half a rotation is no good, thing is that Lexus bearings are not cheap, £60 ish from memory for a blue print bearing, then garage labour to fit them on top of that. I had both front bearings on mine changed a few years ago which made no difference to discs warping and causing the wobble under braking, infact the bearings collapsed again a year later! The garage had obviously not put them in right, although they wouldn't admit it. Do yourself a big favour and get on ebay and buy second hand original Lexus hub assembly which has original bearing for maybe £30-40. With a bit of luck this will probably cure the warping disc saga as well, the same as it did for me!!

Yeah I will. There's a well-known breaker in Birmingham that I get my bits from, plus a load more people on the Facebook group selling bits so there's no shortage. I'll get the runout measured when the dial indicator arrives and see what's up.

Amusingly, the offside bearing is the one that sounds no good, but I'm almost convinced it's the nearside causing the issues!

lexus22 · July 31, 2017

Change both sides!

catnap · July 31, 2017

If I video both, could you have a quick look? I need a known-good point of reference, because if I get two spindles from this guy, I need to make sure they're both good bearings when they turn up. And I've no idea what they should look/sound like!

Ah never mind, I found this which shows good and bad.

Definitely looks like mine.

lexus22 · July 31, 2017

Tbh, it's gonna be a gamble if a used hub/bearing assembly is good or bad, if no good then send it back! A bearing should spin freely with minimal noise (just slight noise from bearings) not spinning one turn and rough noise.

catnap · July 31, 2017

8 minutes ago, lexus22 said:

Tbh, it's gonna be a gamble if a used hub/bearing assembly is good or bad, if no good then send it back! A bearing should spin freely with minimal noise (just slight noise from bearings) not spinning one turn and rough noise.

Gotcha. One more question- can you change the hub without a slide hammer, just regular driveway tools?

lexus22 · July 31, 2017

Didn't do myself, garage changed them for me, didn't look like a "hard" job but then again the car was on a lift and they had air tools! Wouldn't fancy doing it myself coz you know that a nut wont come off or something bad is gonna happen! local garage wont charge very much to swap the complete hub over. Get a quote first.

Damo2 · July 31, 2017

Hi All..

How weird... I didn't think that this thread was still going since my last post in Oct 2015, (I basically gave up myself !!!!). but bizarrely I only received the latest updates today on my mobile, however it appears like the dreaded wheel wobble is still an ongoing issue though for quite a few of us.

My own personal experience for my ride is that (since my last post 2015) I have had a further set of new front discs and brake pads, rear drum (handbrake) discs and new brake pads all round as well, new tyres all round and always the tracking and balancing done at the same time (this was done again last year). However nearly 12 months ago when it went for it's last MOT I was told I had a leaking front shock absorber, which I never felt any issue from when driving or had seen evidence of either, as I park my car in the same spot at home every day so would think I would notice a leak, however as you do I had them both replaced as a pair with OEM parts at the same time.

So where we are now is everything was fine for a few months.... For context, I also no longer put hardly any miles on the car like I used to, in fact I have only done 3k or so far this year, but I have had for the last 6 months an incessant steering wobble when braking anything above 30 miles an hour, literally just going down to the local shops. The car is due an MOT in Sept so I have been holding off till then to have it looked at. If they find the problem all well and good and I will get it sorted, if they don't, then I will need to start my own investigations as it is really bloody annoying that everything else about the car is so good and I love it.

I wonder if it is anything to do with broken suspension coil springs, anyone?? I had a few go regularly on my V6 Vectra, but they always got picked up up when the car had an MOT, even though I never knew there was an issue myself as the car still drove OK.

BTW... my Vectra ate front discs every 30K or so (I just renewed them and the pads and all was fine again), so I always have thought that the issue with the Lexus since having owned her at only 12.k miles on the clock was brake related, but it is definitely not....

Now I am back here again on this thread, I will however read with interest what your collectively thoughts are on this problem.... Hopefully we can solve this....

Best Damo

lexus22 · August 1, 2017

So you get the wheel wobble when you put the brakes on yet you state that it is definitely NOT a brake problem...how can you be so sure???

BillNick · August 1, 2017

I went through 3x sets of brand new discs and pads in the space of 12 months, each of them started to wobble under braking after 300-500 miles of wearing in.

All different brands/makes.

I refurbished my calipers before the 1st new set.

Renewed flange and bearing before the 2nd set.

3rd set a garage put on after I asked them to investigate.

Then I decided to sell and get the IS250. So I put on a 4th set and put it up for sale making sure I didn't drive it enough to wear them in and I haven't heard from the new owner.....

Only thing I didn't do was swap out the hub.

lexus22 · August 1, 2017

Yep, I have been there mate, but after spending a fortune I fitted 2nd hand hubs and problem solved.

catnap · August 1, 2017

Hang on. "Renewed flange and bearing" surely means swapping the hub over?

The axle hub is referred to in the service manual as the bearing and flange that bolts into the knuckle/spindle. So which bit did you swap? I'm confused.

lexus22 · August 1, 2017

No it doesn't, the hub assembly comprises of the flange, the bearing and the arm that the bearing is pressed into, so the whole lot together. Iv'e just been on eBay and searched for Lexus is200 front hub assembly, but none there at the moment, but that's what i'm talking about, the complete assembly not just separate components.

catnap · August 1, 2017

Ah, right. In that case I think we're talking entire spindle/knuckle replacements which is fine, I can get hold of those. That's also doable to change on the driveway, just need a balljoint splitter. Cheers!

BillNick · August 1, 2017

Indeed I did NOT replace the arm....I had a mechanic replace the flange and bearing.

Complete hubs (arm + bearing + flange) can be swapped on a driveway pretty easily which in hindsight I should have just done to begin with (cheaper and quicker).

lexus22 · August 1, 2017

After spending a fortune on mine, the cause turned out to be the n/s hub arm being slightly bent which in turn didn't let the disc spin 100% true which warped it after 1k miles.

Reckon previous owner went down a BIG pothole at some point. To be honest the clue was in the boot, as the spare wheel was twisted!

I'm not saying that this has happend to you guys cars, and that fitting a second hand assembly will cure your wobble, but it's a cheap fix and worth trying.

BillNick · August 1, 2017

....and it wasn't until after I had sold the car that I remember my issues with warped brakes starting just after I fell into a very large pothole.

DURRRRR

All I can say is....get onto eBay, get yourself a hub assembly.

Do not waste cash on brakes after brakes after brakes.....AMEN

lexus22 · August 1, 2017

He speaketh with un-forked tougue..

catnap · August 1, 2017

29 minutes ago, Billnick said:

....and it wasn't until after I had sold the car that I remember my issues with warped brakes starting just after I fell into a very large pothole.

DURRRRR

All I can say is....get onto ebay, get yourself a hub assembly.

Do not waste cash on brakes after brakes after brakes.....AMEN

Haha will do. My usual breaker doesn't have any at the moment but it'll be £75 posted which is... okay. Going to ask around a bit.

lexus22 · August 1, 2017

Bit steep, £40ish is about right.

catnap · August 7, 2017

Ok guys, what do we think? I had serious trouble getting the magnetic base of the DTI to stay put while measuring so the nearside hub runout is a bit wonky- I had to hold it up with my knee. Plus I was sitting in a puddle of water after the Saturday downpours!

I think the hubs are too pitted to be measured properly, plus the nearside bearing is binding a little. I did sand down the surfaces before measuring but it wasn't enough and the sandpaper was soggy at this point. Lastly I've never used one before so I was learning as I went.

Excuses over, welcome your opinions on what to change- discs both look due for replacement, despite being 2 years old. But the hubs too?

https://youtu.be/NWL7liM0CtY

wakhtar · August 7, 2017

The hub run out tolerance is 0.5 after looking online (don't take this as gospel as I only did a quick search). I would re-do the test making sure the DTI is held securely else its a pointless test :-)

Also that horrible sound in the video, I take it thats just metal on metal as oppose to your bearings being shot?

This video maybe helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0ayZUDqixE