Sad Day For My 450H

[royoftherovers]

Cannot understand Lexus "disowning " you Tony. Methinks that Motoring Press should be informed (Honest John?), AutoExpress etc.

Have you contacted the local Toyota dealer or the local Toyota Indie........a surprise might be awaiting you !

Regards

John

[aly-g]

Hi Tony, sorry to hear of your plight , I know how much you liked you car, defending it when I questioned hybrid technology, you sold me on it in fact ! I think you should get it repaired , its going to be more cost effective than leasing or buying and better the devil you know remember , just one thing that I have learn' t from this is Lexus dealer service is not worth the money they charge, I was considering having my 250 serviced at Lexus but not now, I feel you might as get your car serviced at a decent independent service agent, I would have thought after your loyal custom for so long they could have helped you out some way especially as Lexus looked after the car all of its life or didn't as the case might be.......

Allan

[tonyricha]

Cheers Allan, when I defended hybrid technology I had not heard of this pump failing, I was talking about the Battery pack which even today I would not hesitate to replace if that was the only issue, I really thought the rest of it would be OK if serviced to the standard, or reasonable cost to repair.

I often wondered if anybody at Lexus view this forum? They claim to be customer conscious

[royoftherovers]

So, in response to POST NO.3 from Colin, the term Hybrid Healthcheck is a misnomer and should be corrected by LEXUS as it misrepresents what is being supplied to the customer.

Regards

John

[ColinBarber]

So, in response to POST NO.3 from Colin, the term Hybrid Healthcheck is a misnomer and should be corrected by LEXUS as it misrepresents what is being supplied to the customer.

Regards

John

I believe Lexus are being clear. The whole system is checked however it is only the Battery that gets an additional 12 months warranty.

The text on the Lexus website is a bit lacking but the video does state it is only the Battery that gets the warranty. I must admit the Toyota web site is clearer, both on the health check page and the warranty page.

[royoftherovers]

Thanks for the explanation Colin.

Regards

John

[royoftherovers]

Does anyone know what happened to Tony`s GS450h?

Was it scrapped, sold, given away or has he kept it and using it sparingly with no sign of the fault which appeared and then disappeared ?

In an early post he mentioned someone named Haynes who apparently had a similar problem with his GS450h....does anyone have any details?

Toyota initially provided an 8 year warranty on Hybrid systems, now they have reduced this to 5 years; does anyone know why?

Regards

John

[ColinBarber]

Toyota initially provided an 8 year warranty on Hybrid systems, now they have reduced this to 5 years; does anyone know why?

I think this is mainly due to the fact that hybrids are more accepted now, there isn't so much fear about longterm reliability. They will provide warranty on the Battery up to ten years provided the owner has the annual health check.

[tonyricha]

Hi all, here is what happened to my GS450h

the Lexus dealers who had serviced it 15 times (full not essential ) offered me £900 against a smaller car.

Mercedes Benz who had never heard of me paid me more than 3 times the bid against a lease on a new E Class, which also has servicing costs way less than half of Lexus rates, £30 RFL and averages 55MPG on each tankfull. That didn't take too much thinking about for a business vehicle.

I do miss the GS, the Merc is not as nice or quite as fast (licence feels safer!) but it but it aint gonna be a disaster as I don't own it, less than £15 K over 3 years including servicing does it for me, I paid almost that in warranty and service costs after buying the Lexus with hard earned cash.

I have decided these high tech cars are too complicated to own as the dealerships will not repair just whole unit replacement and nobody else is prepared to have a go. I could not spend another 6 K to replace the gearbox knowing the rest of the car had done 200 K.

[doro708]

Hi Tony,

Glad you sorted out in the end and i am sure you will be happy with the Mercedes because is not a bad car. It would be nice if you could also post some pictures with the car and share more impressions about it with us.

Dear Lexus dealers,

Please read this topic and try to understand that acting like that and treating customers like objects it will run your business down. There is no point trying to rip off your customer every time when you should help them and find a solution that will work for both parts and like this you will definitely still have that loyal customer and maybe he will tell about the good experience to other people and make you gain a few more customers. All we ask is some respect for us not treat us like we are idiots, do the job properly and train your technicians do repair not only to replace.

[tonyricha]

Its just dawned on me ! what I miss from the old girl is Sun roof, adaptive cruise and reversing camera, would have really struggled to get all of these on another GS 450 unless another fully loaded early edition SE L with the same risks.

Feeling better about the Merc now ! ( even though it looks like its been in a collision , most new cars do now or is it me?)

Well said Adrian !

[royoftherovers]

Tony,

Many thanks for the update on the GS450h.

I hope that you have good service from the E Class. I kept mine. It is nearly 12 years old, done 192,000 miles and still gives over 50 mpg on any journey over 50 miles. It is not a Lexus however and a comparison is worthless as they are "chalk and cheese". Both are good, at what they are good at !

My researches have shown to me that the problem you experienced has been evident on the Prius (as you already knew).What I did not know was that Toyota recalled ALL Prius (in USA, JAPAN and EUROPE) built between 2004 and 2007.The fault was the same as yours. It is self evident that Lexus (Toyota) knew/know, of this and should have acted/should act, accordingly.

The comments made by Adrian are more than pertinent and have my full support and should in my view be endorsed by all Lexus members of this forum.

Lexus` inability to deal appropriately with this matter demands a full explanation from Lexus Corporate UK and Head Office in Japan.

The owners of the best car in the World deserve much better in my view.

Regards

John

[royoftherovers]

Thanks Colin.

It makes one wonder why they did not therefore advertise it with a 10 year warranty subject to terms and conditions?

Regards

Joh

[Hayne]

Hi,

I am having the same issue with my GS450h (see my thread near the top of the list).

I am still driving the car as normal, but without Hybrid. My car too ground to a halt when the pump failed, but when I restarted it, the hybrid fault message was displayed, but the car drove perfectly. Have you tried re-starting the car and driving it? When you press the power button, it does a self check, finds the hybrid oil pump is not functioning, then starts the engine. This process takes about 10 seconds every time you start the car, but you get used to it. Just don't put the transmission into 'D', until the READY light goes steady (if you do put it into 'D' while the READY light is flashing, it will cut the engine (due to the self-test failing) and you will have to restart it).

In my opinion, go back to the Lexus dealer, start the car and test drive it. I think you'll find tht you will just drive it home as normal.

The transmission cannot be damaged by driving the car without the oil pump running, as this is only controlled as required so isn't on all the time anyway.

I'm affraid that main dealers are not competant at repairing cars without looking into the techicalities of why a car isn't working or a part has failed. They are under such pressures that not enough time is spent properly investigating issues, which is why I always investigate matters by myself before coming to a satisfactory conclusion. The main dealer is very wrong if they say you need a new transmission when the pump fails. This pump is a separate part which is readly available from Lexus and other suppliers on the web. And it's relatively easy to replace too!!!

In relation to Tonyrocha's comment above, the pump is not located inside the gearbox. It is mounted on the lower offside of the gearbox in full view. You can see it and it's mounting bolts, even without removing the transmission plastic cover.

To conclude, don't loose hope yet and certainly don't scrap the car, just because a little pump has failed. What's the worst that can happen; you still have a beautiful car but without the Hybrid economy (I am getting 28mpg over the last 2000 miles without Hybrid functionality).

There is a limitation to not having a working pump - the overdrive gear will not operate, so you car is limited to 80mph (I know, I tried it and lost power while overtaking at over 80mph, then investigated why). This is because the CVT hits its maximum possible linear ratio at 80 mph. You basically have a 2-speed auto gearbox with a continuously variable transmission (not a six speed gearbox like most people think, as the so-called 6-speeds are vitual gears selected by an ECU controlling the CVT ratio).

Anyway, enough of my waffling (I could go on for hours). Let me know how you get on retreiving your car and watch my other thread over the next few weeks. Hopefully we can both have working pumps soon.

Giles.

[Hayne]

Ahhh, I didn't read the last 2 pages of the thread before posting a reply. Sounds like you have traded it in for an E-Class now.

Good luck with your new car.

Giles.

[tonyricha]

I feel a mug for listening to these bandits, they persuaded me the pump alone was not available (or easily changed ) and so needed a complete gearbox.

I work under "best advice rules" and wrongly assume others do also but clearly not the motor trade, to then try to steal the car off me for £900 adds insult to injury, all after I had been a loyal customer for years.

This would have been the subject of a small claims court if I had dealt with them ( Lexus Milton Keynes if anyone is unsure who )

"In Pursuit of Perfection " pah !

[SimonG]

Just to add to these comments, my GS450h has also suffered a hybrid failure this week and the dealer is waiting for feedback from Lexus UK as to whether they will pay or contribute to the repair.

The car is a 2006 model with 115k miles and full Lexus service history. The dealer "thinks" that the Battery has failed even though it has passed the health check on the last 2 services (last 8k miles ago)- if it is the Battery then I may stand a chance of getting it covered by Lexus.

I've only owned this car for 12 months and covered 20k miles but In that time I've had dash rattles (ended up stuffing felt down the back of the dash), speaker rattles, a rattle from the roof lining, all 4 shock absorbers fail, rattle from engine under light load (dealer unable to fix after three visits and a replacement VVTI pipe), drivers side HID headlamp fails when hot, exhaust now rattling inside silencer, brake disks replaced due to corrosion, both front drop link suspension bushes worn and now the hybrid system failing.

I'm extremely disappointed in Lexus response to Tony's issues and I really hoping for a more positive response otherwise my car will most likely be on the way to the breakers and my brief love affair with Lexus will come to an abrupt end.

I love the performance this car offers, but the build quality (of my car at least) has been awful and not what I was expecting from a Lexus.

[SimonG]

I'm pleased to report that I've had some good news and that Lexus will replace the hybrid Battery and cover all costs :hocus-pokus:

My issue sounds a little different to Tony's in that the dealer says that the Battery has failed as opposed to some other part of the hybrid system.

The parts are arrive Saturday morning so hopefully I'll be up and running again by Monday ..... Probably going to get the three shocks and suspension bushes replaced at the same time as although I'm still not convinced the shocks have failed (Passed MOT 5 weeks ago) they do have some misting so only a matter of time I guess.

Fingers crossed that they find nothing else during the repair - If they don't I may be tempted to take out the 2yr extended warranty as this seems to have come down in price since I inquired a year ago (Now seems to be £995 for 2yrs up to 140k miles)

Have to say that I'm impressed with the team at Lexus Poole (Dan Perkins & Meagan) as they fought my case with Lexus on this and have managed to get a positive result.

Cheers

Simon G

[Graham Gardner]

I'm pleased to report that I've had some good news and that Lexus will replace the hybrid battery and cover all costs :hocus-pokus:

My issue sounds a little different to Tony's in that the dealer says that the battery has failed as opposed to some other part of the hybrid system.

The parts are arrive Saturday morning so hopefully I'll be up and running again by Monday ..... Probably going to get the three shocks and suspension bushes replaced at the same time as although I'm still not convinced the shocks have failed (Passed MOT 5 weeks ago) they do have some misting so only a matter of time I guess.

Fingers crossed that they find nothing else during the repair - If they don't I may be tempted to take out the 2yr extended warranty as this seems to have come down in price since I inquired a year ago (Now seems to be £995 for 2yrs up to 140k miles)

Have to say that I'm impressed with the team at Lexus Poole (Dan Perkins & Meagan) as they fought my case with Lexus on this and have managed to get a positive result.

Cheers

Simon G

That is good news Simon

[Lmmbjt]

Hi I may be wrong !!!! but that sound like a simple transmission fluid change might be at the bottom of this , as old oil brakes down when it gets to hot , the first thing to do and possibly the cheapest is change the transmission oil and filter an run the car for a few days and see how you go . I was a RAC patrol for a while but that was over ten years ago and my tech skills are a little out of date , but you might just saves yourself a few grand .

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[Lmmbjt]

Sorry didn't see all the posts sound like I'm behind the times .

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[Hayne]

Barry, that's a very interesting comment.

My Hybrid system has stopped working due to a transmission pump performance fault code, pointing to failure of the electrical auxiliary transmission oil pump.

I am looking at the possibility of repairing my pump myself (I am a firm believer that everything is repairable!) but seeing your comment regarding old transmission fluid has made me think.

My car has done 160k miles, so is probably well overdue for a change. I will buy a few litres of ATF and give it s go.

In your experience, does this sound like a feasible possibility that feedback from the pump flow rate sensor could cause an error like this with old oil?

Thanks.

Giles.

[ColinBarber]

I would inspect the fluid, but it is unlikely to be in such a poor condition to cause a problem for the flow or pressure sensor.

What error code(s) are you receiving? There is a TSB in the US for a problem with the pressure sensor causing P0731 and P0732 errors, and another TSB for errors P0867 and P0990.

[tonyricha]

Hi Giles, I doubt it is caused by the fluid, mine had full Luxus service history meaning the fluid was changed as specified.

[noby76]

I have been reading this thread thinking Lexus should not be slayed for not offering to help towards the cost of the pump failure. if you see it from their point of view Tony, the car is 8 years old with over 200,000 miles on the clock. this is a mileage which most originally factory fitted parts start failing on any car. in fact some parts on a car wouldn't even make it that far before they fail. to Lexus is will be like them throwing money into the drain considering the year and mileage of the vehicle.

one could argue they had serviced your car ever since you bought it so they bear some form of responsibility or at least should contribute towards the repair but at the same time they are not obliged to. they will only cover any parts changed or fitted during the service which is around 12months or 12,000 miles once the car is out of warranty.

I had my car serviced couple of months ago, went through MOT and passed with flying colours 2 weeks later my radiator failed on my way from Luton and I only found out when I stopped at traffic lights and noticed my bonnet steaming.. so do I then go back to the garage demanding help towards the cost of replacing the radiator due to the fact they serviced my car and passed my mot with flying colours? most parts can just fail on high mileage cars without warnings as not all parts are linked to the on board ECU or computer and unfortunately the hybrid pump was one of them.

in my humble opinion I think your GS450h served well by clocking those trouble free mileages until the pump went.

at over 200,000 miles I wouldn't complain if a factory fitted part went on my IS..most cars wouldn't get to that mileage before they get scrapped.