Brake Fluid For Is250

[james250]

I know the IS250 takes DOT4 brake fluid. Planning to change it soon, just wondering if anyone has any brand recommendation? EuroCarParts do Pagid which seem to be very reasonably priced. Is that good enough? Does anyone the the capacity of brake fluid held in the brake system?

[aly-g]

I would think the total capacity will be no more than 1/2 litre , not 100% tho

[johnatg]

I use ATE SL.6 - it's a low viscosity DOT 4 spec fluid. (Available on Ebay). Low viscosity fluids are recommended for all cars with ESP - it is supposed to enable the systems to react faster.

You need about a litre for a complete change, including allowing for what you waste through bleeding out the old fluid until it's pale and clear at the bleed screws.

[Gramera flash]

Had mine changed at the dealers recently,,,, £72

[james250]

I use ATE SL.6 - it's a low viscosity DOT 4 spec fluid. (Available on Ebay). Low viscosity fluids are recommended for all cars with ESP - it is supposed to enable the systems to react faster.

You need about a litre for a complete change, including allowing for what you waste through bleeding out the old fluid until it's pale and clear at the bleed screws.

Thanks John, looking at the user manual and the Lexus technical online doc, it seems the recommended brake fluid is: SAE J1703 or FMVSS No. 116 DOT 3. So I am assuming DOT 4 will be fine? The Pagid DOT 4 seems to meet the SAE 1703

[ChumpusRex]

Any DOT 3, DOT 4 or DOT 5.1 fluid is suitable.

A low viscosity fluid such as a "super DOT 4" or DOT 5.1 is supposed to allow the VSC system to work slightly better - no idea how true that is.

It's worth making sure that you get a fluid with seal polymer preservatives in it. Not all fluids have these. A design fault in the master cylinder used in the IS220d/IS250 means that the master cylinder can fail if you use a preservative free fluid.

Note that DOT 3/4/5.1 specifications and SAE J 1703 specifications do NOT require preservatives - so just being a compliant fluid is not guarantee that the fluid is suitable. For example, Shell DOT 4 fluid is available in several versions - only the DOT 4 ESL fluid and DOT 4 Ultra versions have the recommended preservatives.

[PhilipK]

It's worthwhile pointing out that while DOT 3, DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 can be mixed, they must never be mixed with DOT 5 / DOT 5.0 (which is silicone based, unlike the others which are polyethylene glycol based).

[james250]

Mark, thanks for that. So technically Pagid isnt really suitable because I think it's a really budget fluid and I doubt it is a low viscosity fluid. So maybe Johns suggestion of ATE SL6 DOT4 might be the better option.

Philip, i wont be using DOT5 so no worries there :)

[james250]

Mark, so the Shell DOT 4 ESL fluid and DOT 4 Ultra versions are suitable for the IS250? and contain those preservatives required? Shell brake fluid is quite easy to source I guess.

[ChumpusRex]

The problem is that brake fluid manufacturers don't tell you about preservatives, and the DOT specifications don't require them.

I don't know what year your car is - the master cylinder was updated with improved seals at some point, and there was a campaign to modify existing ones. So, you could just ask lexus whether your car has the updated master cylinder (campaign number; 0516K).

The only niggle in my mind is that they found the faulty seal in the master cylinder; what's to say that there isn't another seal, somewhere else, that just hasn't been noticed yet.

The Shell ESL fluid is easy to get and cheap, and makes a specific selling point about it's seal conditioners and extreme compatibility with seals and electronics. At least they actually make their own fluid; I'm fairly confident that Pagid don't make fluid/greases,they just buy it in, concentrating on their main business of making the friction materials and discs themselves.

The other alternative is to get genuine Toyota fluid - but this is a DOT 3 lower performance fluid, and more expensive than the Shell.

[james250]

Thanks Mark, I am considering if I should just stick with the Genuine Toyota stuff, which is lower performance DOT3, but this is what the car would have come with from factory, and up until now Lexus dealership have been doing all the brake fluid changes, so I am assuming they must have been using the Toyota DOT3 stuff. If this is the case then the Toyota DOT3 stuff should be OK? Personally, what would you recommend? Toyota DOT3, Shell DOT4 ESL or Shell DOT4 Ultra? The difference between Shel ESL and Ultra seems to be the Class. Ultra is Class 4 and ESL is Class 6 and ESL seems more geared towards ABS and ESP systems. So I am assuming if Shell, then the Shell ESL might be the better option.

[ChumpusRex]

I don't think the Ultra has any real advantage. It is designed for extreme high temperatures, but otherwise it is a regular "class 4" fluid, albeit a premium one. You won't get anywhere near those temperatures in a road car.

The ESL is a low viscosity "class 6" fluid. These types of fluids are supposed to be better for ABS systems/VSC systems, especially in cold weather because these type of fluids don't thicken up.

My preference would be the ESL - it's a high performance fluid that is likely better than what toyota supply, but is designed for long life and maximum compatibility with brake components, so is unlikely to cause any unforseen corrosion or seal damage problems.

In general DOT 4 fluids are higher temperature rated than DOT3 - but they can be thicker than DOT 3, and this could make VSC/ABS less effective. A class 6 DOT 4 is the best of both worlds.

[is200 Newbie]

Hi James

I use the Shell ESL fluid as Mark says above, it wasn't through any research I done, it was something someone recommended to me when I had my old IS200 and I have stuck to using it.

I have bought this in a local motor factors, don't know if Halfords sell this?

[james250]

Thanks Mark and is200 Newbie. I'll get some Shell DOT4 ESL