Gs450H Loss Of Power

[Z415]

Hi @Hayne (Giles),

I just wanted to thank you for the write-up and this find and for providing the part numbers.

I had the same exact error code and my car was in limp mode (wouldn't accelerate beyond 69 MPH and they hybrid system wouldn't kick in; it would drive in gas-only mode). Lexus quoted me best-case (3-5K) and worst-case (13K) on my 2007 GS 450h with 121,000 miles for the controller pump issue. I used your advice at a friend's tech shop and problem solved!

May God bless you with the best of guidance! THANK YOU! 🙂

[zeczec]

@Hayne

 

Good day Hayne. Your write-up is very helpful but I'm having trouble finding the pump controller so I can disconnect the wiring.

 

Can anyone help?

[jumbodrive]

Sorry for the bump

This write-up is brilliant. I've got a 2009 GS450H, and recently acquired a broken transmission oil pump from a much earlier car. My plan was to rebuild it with new bearings and have it on stand by for when mine goes, but it seems that you're saying the pump was revised and my car might not suffer from this problem?

I also have that electrical buzzing noise coming from what I believe to be the centre of the car, I seem to hear it the loudest when its in READY mode, park, and stick my head just below the driver's door (RHD). To be honest, I thought it was the transmission oil pump getting worn out. I have since replaced the transmission fluid (following the lengthy and correct procedure and using genuine ATF-WS) and its made no difference. It does eventually stop, so I assumed it was to do with the pump circulating ATF for a while after parking up. I think it does it less when its not up to temp yet. Could be wrong. 

My question now is, do I bother to rebuild this old pump I've got? I don't think there is a part number on it (other than the Denso part number on the motor side), I have already had the screws off it and the bearing that I have circled in the attached photo spins just fine, with no play. However the assembly is notchy to turn and doesn't feel smooth at all, so I assume its the other bearing - which I can't quite see or understand how to remove/replace.  I am also not sure if this older pump would be OK to fit on my newer car, and if the internals of the newer pumps would even use the same bearings. 

There also appears to be some rubber shavings on the seal at the other end of the motor, presumably caused by play in the shaft. I wonder if that seal is also available to purchase?

 

]

 

Here you can see the rubber shavings from that shaft seal:

Appreciate the time taken to solve this problem and verify by the OP, and any responses to this message. Thanks. 

[hybridbatterysolutions]

Its definitely worth doing both bearings & any seals you see, provided you can remove them relatively unscathed any good bearing supplier should be able to match them no problem, one thing i would say is get the best quality available.

The other bearing & by far the most difficult to remove is under the circuit board which is moveable after screws are removed but be very very careful as there is a circular magnet which i believe is part of a speed sensor which is very very easy to crack or chip - once that happens you are in the do-do, you can only de-solder the connections if you have the correct solvent to remove the coating on them which is probably acetone/alcohol based. As for interchangeability its best to check with Toyota parts i'd say.

That sound you heard was deffo the auxillary transmission oil pump.

[jumbodrive]

Thanks for the response. I have ordered replacement bearings (SKF brand - supposedly good?) so I will attempt the removal once they arrive, I have a small puller, but I suspect its too small. 

Noted about the magnet and circuit board, thanks. I was planning to apply vibration and heat, but if its a magnet I suppose it shouldn't be heated. I already had to drill out two of the motor housing screws, luckily I just drilled the heads off, and once the housing was off I was able to spin out the remaining screw by hand. I have now also ordered some JIS screwdrivers so that I have the best chance of getting them out, instead of trying to do it with a Pozidriv or Philips. Otherwise I am fairly well equipped on the electronics rework side with a dedicated bench for that kind of work. 

Am I right in saying the shaft can be knocked out without removing the circuit board? 

[jumbodrive]

Update: Freed the circuit board screws from the housing and now I have got the armature in hand.

Can now really feel how bad the bearing at the circuit board end of the shaft is. Problem now is that none of my pullers will fit under either of the bearings. The gap between the back of the bearing and the next component on the shaft is so tight. Considering clamping the bearing down in a vice and tapping the shaft with a rubber mallet, but my vice isn't suitable for that either. Have got access to other vices elsewhere, but would prefer to buy a more suitable pulling tool. 

[zeczec]

Hi everyone. Good news.. I successfully changed the bearings on my pump, both inner and outer, and I now have my hybrid system fully working again 😎. The guidance within this thread has been invaluable.

However, I've noticed 2 things that are a bit different this time. Firstly, there's a slight murming sound coming from the pump when in operation. It's quiet but it is noticeable when I've got the windows all the way down and it's in EV mode. I don't mind it, but I do notice it. Secondly, the shifts from the low speed CVT to the high speed CV (which happens around 65mph) have been fantastic and more rapid than ever, except this one time just 2 days ago where the car got stuck at 65mph for around 2 seconds before jerking up to the high speed CVT, allowing me to go faster. Very strange. Has this happened to anyone here?

At this point I think it's worth mentioning here, that a lot of the posts are quoting 5L as the rough requirement for ATF to refill the system. However, when I was doing the re-fill, after just 3L, it started to over-flow through the overflow check hole. I had kept the ATF bottles submerged in a water bath to get them to and keep them at roughly 35 degrees C before doing the re-fill. Once it was "full", I closed both the refill and the overflow check hole, and that was that. I've got 2 bottles unused. I'm now half thinking, that because the pump and its hoses were empty, as soon as I started the car, some fluid level was now lost to the pump and that I should now repeat the fluid refill proceduce as a top-up move. Did others do this? I'm very keen to hear from you, especially @Hayne (I hope you don't mind the tag!).

Another thing I noticed is, the central console from inside the cabin, in particular the heated/ventilated seats control panel, seems to be getting quite warm - not sure if this is related.

Thanks for reading!.

[HensTeeth]

Well done for changing the bearing successfully. I have a Mk4 and am wondering when the inevitable will be required - don't seem to hear so many stories about those, but perhaps that's simply age and numbers related. For what it's worth, mine makes a noticeable noise when it's been run at speed for a while, such as a motorway, and you pull up at a toll booth or whatever, but is essentially noiseless when starting from cold in EV mode.

Not sure if you've seen or used the official refill procedure, but I believe the level using the level plug needs to be checked with the engine running and at 35 (ish) degrees, so that the oil is in circulation at that point. Is this any help: https://slideplayer.com/slide/14432904/ Page 27 onwards.

[jumbodrive]

On 8/23/2022 at 6:46 AM, zeczec said:

Hi everyone. Good news.. I successfully changed the bearings on my pump, both inner and outer, and I now have my hybrid system fully working again 😎. The guidance within this thread has been invaluable.

However, I've noticed 2 things that are a bit different this time. Firstly, there's a slight murming sound coming from the pump when in operation. It's quiet but it is noticeable when I've got the windows all the way down and it's in EV mode. I don't mind it, but I do notice it. Secondly, the shifts from the low speed CVT to the high speed CV (which happens around 65mph) have been fantastic and more rapid than ever, except this one time just 2 days ago where the car got stuck at 65mph for around 2 seconds before jerking up to the high speed CVT, allowing me to go faster. Very strange. Has this happened to anyone here?

At this point I think it's worth mentioning here, that a lot of the posts are quoting 5L as the rough requirement for ATF to refill the system. However, when I was doing the re-fill, after just 3L, it started to over-flow through the overflow check hole. I had kept the ATF bottles submerged in a water bath to get them to and keep them at roughly 35 degrees C before doing the re-fill. Once it was "full", I closed both the refill and the overflow check hole, and that was that. I've got 2 bottles unused. I'm now half thinking, that because the pump and its hoses were empty, as soon as I started the car, some fluid level was now lost to the pump and that I should now repeat the fluid refill proceduce as a top-up move. Did others do this? I'm very keen to hear from you, especially @Hayne (I hope you don't mind the tag!).

Another thing I noticed is, the central console from inside the cabin, in particular the heated/ventilated seats control panel, seems to be getting quite warm - not sure if this is related.

Thanks for reading!.

Hi @zeczec, well done for changing the bearings. Mind if I ask what bearing puller or tools you used to extract and fit the bearings? I have bought two bearing pullers and neither of them have been suitable for the job!

For your transmission refill procedure, I don't think you've done that correctly. It sounds to me like you have most likely under filled the transmission. I haven't seen the correct procedure posted anywhere until I purchased the workshop manual and posted it to another Lexus forum myself. The thing to consider is, you must run the engine and make sure it reaches 30C and observe the Line Pressure in the Techstream software. The transmission takes ages to cool down, so if you start with a hot car, it will more than likely be above 40C when you refill it - I suggest starting with a cold car. You don't need to warm up with fluid bottles as it will warm up once you start the engine. 

Here is a guide I posted on another forum before I found this one:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-3rd-gen-2006-2011/986186-3rd-gen-gs450h-transmission-oil-change-atf-ws-sealed-transmission.html

If you read through the notes you should be able to work your way back without repeating the entire procedure, but you may just decide to get fresh fluid and drain it again to start over. If you don't have Techstream, you can use a jumper wire in the OBD port to get it to light up the P and D to indicate the correct temperature, but you won't be able to check the Line Pressure. 

[zeczec]

1 hour ago, jumbodrive said:

Hi @zeczec, well done for changing the bearings. Mind if I ask what bearing puller or tools you used to extract and fit the bearings? I have bought two bearing pullers and neither of them have been suitable for the job!

For your transmission refill procedure, I don't think you've done that correctly. It sounds to me like you have most likely under filled the transmission. I haven't seen the correct procedure posted anywhere until I purchased the workshop manual and posted it to another Lexus forum myself. The thing to consider is, you must run the engine and make sure it reaches 30C and observe the Line Pressure in the Techstream software. The transmission takes ages to cool down, so if you start with a hot car, it will more than likely be above 40C when you refill it - I suggest starting with a cold car. You don't need to warm up with fluid bottles as it will warm up once you start the engine. 

Here is a guide I posted on another forum before I found this one:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-3rd-gen-2006-2011/986186-3rd-gen-gs450h-transmission-oil-change-atf-ws-sealed-transmission.html

If you read through the notes you should be able to work your way back without repeating the entire procedure, but you may just decide to get fresh fluid and drain it again to start over. If you don't have Techstream, you can use a jumper wire in the OBD port to get it to light up the P and D to indicate the correct temperature, but you won't be able to check the Line Pressure. 

Hi @jumbodriveThanks a lot for your reply.   I've just read your post, and wow, this is what I've been looking for - well done! Just off the top of my head... so, I should now fill in extra litre when the car is cold, then start car with techstream plugged in. Wait for temperature to increase to 30 degrees. Turn off car there and then, quickly get beneath, and drain out the excess from the check plug, then close it properly with a new gasket, then done. Correct?

As for the bearing pullers - this took me ages to find, and I cycled through 3 pullers to find this one which worked very well:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Capacity-Bearing-Pullers-Puller-Separator/dp/B07T49N6NY/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=bearing+puller&qid=1661435573&sprefix=bearing+%2Caps%2C75&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzSE45RjFUOFY3RzFTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTYzNDg1Mk4yRlo4Q0dGUlNaRSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUExMDA1Njc1MlhYRzdQVEw2Q1E5NiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

There will be a time where you will also have to use some nuts, when putting on the new bearings in order to ensure the bearing is pushed on with pressure applied to the INNER ring rather than the outer (which will warp it). I've attaching a pic to help understand:

[ColinBarber]

7 hours ago, zeczec said:

There will be a time where you will also have to use some nuts, when putting on the new bearings in order to ensure the bearing is pushed on with pressure applied to the INNER ring rather than the outer (which will warp it). I've attaching a pic to help understand:

Do you have a better pic? You normally should never push a bearing in with the inner ring, it will damage the bearings/cage. 

[zeczec]

25 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Do you have a better pic? You normally should never push a bearing in with the inner ring, it will damage the bearings/cage. 

Not really as it's already hard to see because the bearing is hidden. I actually did press on the outer ring and it warped the bearing slightly as it no longer spun smoothly. So I ordered a fresh new one and fitted that, but this time pushed on the inner ring. My thinking is, it's the inner ring that's up against huge friction, so that should be made contact with and pushed along the shaft.

[jumbodrive]

On 8/25/2022 at 2:58 PM, zeczec said:

Hi @jumbodriveThanks a lot for your reply.   I've just read your post, and wow, this is what I've been looking for - well done! Just off the top of my head... so, I should now fill in extra litre when the car is cold, then start car with techstream plugged in. Wait for temperature to increase to 30 degrees. Turn off car there and then, quickly get beneath, and drain out the excess from the check plug, then close it properly with a new gasket, then done. Correct?

As for the bearing pullers - this took me ages to find, and I cycled through 3 pullers to find this one which worked very well:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Capacity-Bearing-Pullers-Puller-Separator/dp/B07T49N6NY/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=bearing+puller&qid=1661435573&sprefix=bearing+%2Caps%2C75&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzSE45RjFUOFY3RzFTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTYzNDg1Mk4yRlo4Q0dGUlNaRSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUExMDA1Njc1MlhYRzdQVEw2Q1E5NiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

There will be a time where you will also have to use some nuts, when putting on the new bearings in order to ensure the bearing is pushed on with pressure applied to the INNER ring rather than the outer (which will warp it). I've attaching a pic to help understand:

@zeczec Thanks, I will order that set now and try again. Your fluid check process is almost correct, other than the fact that you shouldn't turn the car off when you go to open the check level bolt.

Btw, the temperature range for checking is 30C to 40C, so if you wanted to wait until 35C, that would be good too, just be careful that it doesn't exceed it because it can go up quite quickly depending on the situation. And of course, the car should be perfectly level. 

Keep this in mind from my previous notes: 

If the Line Pressure stays ON, the transmission is probably underfilled for this procedure. Either start over, or add enough fluid until it turns OFF.

[zeczec]

24 minutes ago, jumbodrive said:

@zeczec Thanks, I will order that set now and try again. Your fluid check process is almost correct, other than the fact that you shouldn't turn the car off when you go to open the check level bolt.

Btw, the temperature range for checking is 30C to 40C, so if you wanted to wait until 35C, that would be good too, just be careful that it doesn't exceed it because it can go up quite quickly depending on the situation. And of course, the car should be perfectly level. 

Keep this in mind from my previous notes: 

If the Line Pressure stays ON, the transmission is probably underfilled for this procedure. Either start over, or add enough fluid until it turns OFF.

Thanks, I'll have a go!

[ColinBarber]

19 hours ago, zeczec said:

My thinking is, it's the inner ring that's up against huge friction, so that should be made contact with and pushed along the shaft.

That makes sense. I should have been clearer in that you should only press against the inner ring if it is being pressed onto a shaft, and the outer ring if being pressed into a housing.

[zeczec]

On 8/26/2022 at 4:32 PM, jumbodrive said:

@zeczec Thanks, I will order that set now and try again. Your fluid check process is almost correct, other than the fact that you shouldn't turn the car off when you go to open the check level bolt.

Btw, the temperature range for checking is 30C to 40C, so if you wanted to wait until 35C, that would be good too, just be careful that it doesn't exceed it because it can go up quite quickly depending on the situation. And of course, the car should be perfectly level. 

Keep this in mind from my previous notes: 

If the Line Pressure stays ON, the transmission is probably underfilled for this procedure. Either start over, or add enough fluid until it turns OFF.

I did have a question on the gasket for the check overflow plug. Do you have a part number for it? I asked Lexus on eBay and they in turn supplied me a listing which is the exact same gasket as the one for the drain plug. Is it the same gasket? They don't seem to know and are asking me if it's correct, weirdly.

Here's the listing they provided: 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255541251478?epid=1216787046&hash=item3b7f720d96:g:RBEAAOSwQ4dihNJH

 

[ColinBarber]

On 8/28/2022 at 1:44 AM, zeczec said:

I did have a question on the gasket for the check overflow plug. Do you have a part number for it? I asked Lexus on eBay and they in turn supplied me a listing which is the exact same gasket as the one for the drain plug. Is it the same gasket? They don't seem to know and are asking me if it's correct, weirdly.

Here's the listing they provided: 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255541251478?epid=1216787046&hash=item3b7f720d96:g:RBEAAOSwQ4dihNJH

 

looks correct. That gasket is common, used on virtually every Toyota/Lexus vehicle.

[zeczec]

On 8/26/2022 at 4:32 PM, jumbodrive said:

@zeczec Thanks, I will order that set now and try again. Your fluid check process is almost correct, other than the fact that you shouldn't turn the car off when you go to open the check level bolt.

Btw, the temperature range for checking is 30C to 40C, so if you wanted to wait until 35C, that would be good too, just be careful that it doesn't exceed it because it can go up quite quickly depending on the situation. And of course, the car should be perfectly level. 

Keep this in mind from my previous notes: 

If the Line Pressure stays ON, the transmission is probably underfilled for this procedure. Either start over, or add enough fluid until it turns OFF.

Hi there!

I am running into a snag. When I go into techstream, it keeps giving me a fatal error when I try and pull up the data list. Please see screenshot. Any ideas?

[zeczec]

Okay, I managed to do the job without techstream and have outlined steps here: 

 

[jumbodrive]

Nice one. Yes, that method works too and definitely has its benefits especially if someone doesn't have access to Techstream. 

[Cavanman01]

Hello,

I just want to express my thanks for this topic as I had to change the bearings in my '06 GS450h earlier this year and, based on the advice and guidance here, I was able to change the bearings and repair the pump, for the price of 2 small bearings and some ATF. 

In my case, I have to say the pump gave plenty of warning that something was amiss. The rattles and bangs from under the car, when stationary with the window open, were more than enough warning... which I ignored until I couldn't ignore any longer.

If you are going to have a pump failure, chose your day very well. I would recommend a warm summers day, with lots of light and long evenings. Wrestling with the wiring harness and trying to free the mounting clips in January and 2C makes for very hard going... The hardest part of the whole job was removing the wiring harness when the wire and insulation were stiff with cold and the mounting clips were tight...

I bought 5 litres of Toyota ATF, but only used 1.5 litres. I did not drain the gearbox, but removed the pump, to see how much would come out. (I meant to measure the quantity, after allowing the pump etc. to drain, but the wind overnight blew it all over the driveway...)

I just refilled to the recommended level, using the advice in this topic. It's not something I'd recommend doing, but the idea was that I'd make sure the fix had actually worked, before doing a full fluid replacement. 

As it turns out, I never got round to it, but the gearbox continued to function fine. The car is now destined for the scrapyard (due to rot, not the gearbox) so I won't be changing it now...