Front Caliper And Disc Replacement / Removal

[is200 Newbie]

Remember you can add too much grease -

Does the picture show the escaping grease after you have greased it or before? This pin acts more of a securing bolt for the caliper to the caliper frame. The pin is inserted through a rubber boot and there's no way it can rust to this rubber housing. This pin only needs a light smear of grease just so it slides ok on the rubber boot..there's far too much grease on the pin if that's escaped ,as there is quite a big chamber in the rubber boot that holds quite a bit of grease.

I would pay more attention to the pins where metal is against metal as that's where you will be finding the problems are coming from.

Also - what type of grease is shown in the picture ... it looks like its the colour of Castrol LM general use grease which is not suitable for this. Some types of grease will attack the rubber and over time they will lose their elasticity and fail and lead to water ingress. The type to use is the Toyota red rubber grease which you have which is designed to not attack the rubber whilst it lubricates the pins.

Last point - its advisable to check the pins once a year - I do mine every 6 months and have not found the grease has dried out but clean and renew it anyway.

A refurbed caliper will be fine as long as you babysit it as if just left it will fail - its one of those things on the car you will need to look after as there's no way round it. I am quite surprised due to the known issue by Lexus that they do not grease these on an annual service ?!

[johnatg]

If the rubber boot has slipped off, or isn't a tight fit in the groove, or has generally deteriorated, replace it/them. You should be able to get them from Lexus or Rock Auto sell them. Be careful to get the correct parts - very early cars made up to Nov 2005 have M9 pins and Dec 05 on have M12 ones and the boots are different. The two boots - top and bottom - should come together in a kit.

The grease is supposed to ooze out from the edge between the boot and the caliper - if it doesn't, you haven't put enough in (I put a good big gob of it into the hole before pushing the pin in). That comes from the US Special Service Campaign (SSC) 9LB instructions issued January 16, 2009. They say that the excess grease helps to keep water out. Be careful not to get grease on the pads or disc.

The rear boots seem to be harder to find than the front ones. Front caliper 'rubber' kits (contain all the rubber parts for a front caliper refurb) and individual rubber boots are available from AFC Parts Ltd - http://afcparts.co.uk/home.php?cat=2388

A note about the front caliper rubber kit from AFC - they are made by Febest (a German company) - at least, I don't know if they actually make them or they probably just assemble the parts from somewhere else. Anyway, they are confused about the contents - it contains two of parts 'Front Disc Brake Bushing Dust Boot' whereas four are required on the car (two for each side). But the kit contains four of part 'Front Disc Brake Cylinder Slide Bushing' (that's the little rubber band thingy which fits in a groove in the top pin) whereas only two are required on the car (one on each side). I've emailed them about it but haven't had a response. If you buy that kit you'll need two extra dust boots.

[is200 Newbie]

Wont the excess grease shown in the picture attract a load of dirt etc ..

There is quite a big cavity within the boot itself (on mine) which holds a lot of grease which keeps the pin lubricated ... Could this be an updated part by Lexus?

[jackcramerr]

Can't recall much now but I bought the kit from brake parts.Co .UK

http://brakeparts.co.uk/#!/shop/LEXUS/IS250/05-12/IS250%20GSE20%202.5%20PETROL/Rear%20-%20Brake%20Calipers%20and%20Wheel%20cylinders/BCK4535

The rubber boot I wanted to replace, they sent a non identical part. I sent them a picture of the original and they sent me a wrong a second time. I gave up and used to original one that had seen wd40 for days. I wasn't too chuffed about the rest of the kit as well. the only thing I used was the caliper dust cover as I had damaged the original one.

[johnatg]

Since we're on the subject, I've been looking a bit more closely at the boots and pins for the rear caliper - I think the situation is even more complex than I had realised.

It's a bit lost in the mists of time but I originally intended to replace my pins and boots and ordered what I thought were the correct parts from Rock Auto. However, when it came to the job one of my caliper pins was well and truly seized and being less patient than jack I replaced the calipers. That was because I called in to a Lexus dealer to buy new pins after I realised that the ones sent by Rock Auto were wrong (see below) - but I was offered new complete calipers (including mounts) for £120 for the two - bargain.

So I have the Rock Auto parts still and I've compared them with the instructions for the Special Service Campaign 9LB I mentioned before. The pins are 12mm diameter (Dec 2005 on) but the threads are M8 - my car has (I think) M10 threads on the pins - that's why they were wrong. The pins look like those for Dec 2005 on cars shown in the SSC instructions - they don't show the thread. The boot kit from Rock Auto is the Wagner H18053 (http://www.rockauto.co.uk/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=541652&cc=1444563) which looks similar (but not identical) to the boots shown in the SSC for 12mm pins. But I'm pretty sure that my car has (and had before I changed the caliper) these boots: http://www.rockauto.co.uk/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=3463389&cc=1444563 - Carlson 16198 or similar. These are not like those shown for either type of pin for the SSC. But I believe my car was made in Dec 2005 (first reg March 2006).

Are the boots interchangeable? - dunno. But I'm now aware that there are at least three types of boot for the 'blind' rear caliper pin! And probably three types of pin (M9, M12 with M8 threads and M12 with M10 threads)

It seems that Lexus have changed the design several times. I suggest that if you need to change the boots (and if your car still has the originals since before 2010 or so I guess you do need to) - get them off the car and go in to a Lexus dealer with the chassis number and the boots and the pins!

BTW - re the grease oozing - I reckon you can just wipe the excess off. The SSC instructions say to use Toyota White Grease or lithium soap base glycol grease and the grease shown is pale pink. I use Corrosion Block - an aircraft grease which is popular in motorcycle circles and is rubber compatible - it works well and is available on eBay. It's solid (rather than translucent) turquoise in colour. There's also a spray version (ACF50) which is loads better than WD40 etc.

[johnatg]

Looking at the Rock Auto site in more detail I see that the 'wrong' guide pins are listed for most years of IS250, up until quite recently (when it appears that the rear caliper fixings are now more like the front ones).

Maybe US models had pins with the smaller (8mm) threads?

Anyway, it's the Carlson 14208 kit and it's wrong - at least it was for my car.

But for GS460 I see that this is listed: http://www.rockauto.co.uk/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=3463629&cc=1445203&jnid=897&jpid=0 - Carlson 14246. That looks more like the pin with the 10mm thread. But I can't be sure.

No wonder the rear pins/boots are hard to find!

[jackcramerr]

Would be good if we can compile all this John and make it sticky. This will bite again, at least me.

[Aaron G]

I had a mobile mechanic come out as the rear calipers had seized. He worked them loose, cleaned them off, and coated the spindles/barrels (whatever you call the parts the calipers slide on) with copper ease to prevent them rusting again.

Now another mechanic said that was the worst thing he could have done, and he should have used grease.

Thing is the first mechanic added water to my pre-mixed coolant, and I've just realised the second one I had over today to replace the brake fluid has bent all of the jacking points (all of them) on the car. I managed to bend them back - metal was soft, maybe annealed. Doubt they'd go back a third time though.

So as far as the copper ease goes - will that cause the calipers to seize again? I also read a write up on the internet that said as it's copper based it will hold the heat more.

[ColinBarber]

1 minute ago, Aaron G said:

So as far as the copper ease goes - will that cause the calipers to seize again? I also read a write up on the internet that said as it's copper based it will hold the heat more.

No it won't directly cause them to seize and it is certainly better than nothing however copper grease is abrasive and is only normally put on things that don't move.

Over time the grease could wear the rubber boots/seals at a higher rate than normal which would allow the grease to come out and water to get in - so eventually they would seize again. But you need ideally need to re-grease them every couple of years anyway.

 

4 minutes ago, Aaron G said:

I managed to bend them back - metal was soft, maybe annealed

Worth putting some paint or clear coat on them as the paint will have been cracked or come away and the steel will rust if left as is.

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, Aaron G said:

I had a mobile mechanic come out as the rear calipers had seized. He worked them loose, cleaned them off, and coated the spindles/barrels (whatever you call the parts the calipers slide on) with copper ease to prevent them rusting again.

Now another mechanic said that was the worst thing he could have done, and he should have used grease.

Thing is the first mechanic added water to my pre-mixed coolant, and I've just realised the second one I had over today to replace the brake fluid has bent all of the jacking points (all of them) on the car. I managed to bend them back - metal was soft, maybe annealed. Doubt they'd go back a third time though.

So as far as the copper ease goes - will that cause the calipers to seize again? I also read a write up on the internet that said as it's copper based it will hold the heat more.

Seized calipers on a 2006 car = new caliper, my rear caliper seized on my Subaru and I replaced with a new one. For the time and effort you go to getting your old one working again to find it will seized again in the future you are better off with a new one. School of hard knocks and all that...

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

Seized calipers on a 2006 car = new caliper, my rear caliper seized on my Subaru and I replaced with a new one. For the time and effort you go to getting your old one working again to find it will seized again in the future you are better off with a new one. School of hard knocks and all that...

Depends what seized. Normally just the sliding pins which clean up and work again fine. If the pistons have seized then yes.

They have done well to last that long, normally after 6 years old the sliding pins will start to seize up. Unfortunately Lexus don't make it part of their routine servicing even though the floating design is known to always cause problems; they would rather sell you a new calliper. 

[Lageoddvin]

4 hours ago, Aaron G said:

I had a mobile mechanic come out as the rear calipers had seized. He worked them loose, cleaned them off, and coated the spindles/barrels (whatever you call the parts the calipers slide on) with copper ease to prevent them rusting again.

Now another mechanic said that was the worst thing he could have done, and he should have used grease.

Thing is the first mechanic added water to my pre-mixed coolant, and I've just realised the second one I had over today to replace the brake fluid has bent all of the jacking points (all of them) on the car. I managed to bend them back - metal was soft, maybe annealed. Doubt they'd go back a third time though.

So as far as the copper ease goes - will that cause the calipers to seize again? I also read a write up on the internet that said as it's copper based it will hold the heat more.

I would never use copper paste on anything near a brake caliper, no way. Mine had that, and everything was seized. I mean everything. The sliding pins holding the pads, the bolt on the caliper, the sliding pin for the caliper. I would disassemble that immidately and lubricate it with brake caliper grease

[Aaron G]

@LageoddvinThanks for that. I'm having some serious problems finding a competent mobile mechanic and I don't trust the dealers to do anything. I'm a carpenter by trade and don't agree with just watching a Youtube video or reading a forum and assuming you're able to do another trade's job right after.

So I left the important jobs to the mechanics: coolant, brakes, brake fluid, etc. But If I listed all the bodge-ups the past 3 mechanics I've employed have made, I think I'd be better off at having a go at DIY destroying it myself.

I mean when mechanics are happy to let your brakes seize up and let you die, what have you got to lose?.

[toffee_pie]

6 minutes ago, Aaron G said:

@LageoddvinThanks for that. I'm having some serious problems finding a competent mobile mechanic and I don't trust the dealers to do anything. I'm a carpenter by trade and don't agree with just watching a Youtube video or reading a forum and assuming you're able to do another trade's job right after.

So I left the important jobs to the mechanics: coolant, brakes, brake fluid, etc. But If I listed all the bodge-ups the past 3 mechanics I've employed have made, I think I'd be better off at having a go at DIY destroying it myself.

I mean when mechanics are happy to let your brakes seize up and let you die, what have you got to lose?.

Don't take a 2006 IS220D to a Lexus dealer FFS unless you like throwing money away, a caliper replacement is bread and butter for any mechanic, I am not a mechanic but could probably do it had I some work bench since I have already done all fluids, coolant and tricky spark plugs on my Subaru, all 6 of them.

I am an Electronic Engineer however coolant, oil, PS fluid, spark plugs etc are all pretty easy so I suggest you invest in some good tools and do it yourself and you know for sure the parts are actually fitted, good quality ones at that.

For brakes and any serious safety critical work its probably wise to get a mechanic

On 6/17/2021 at 9:29 PM, ColinBarber said:

Depends what seized. Normally just the sliding pins which clean up and work again fine. If the pistons have seized then yes.

Yes, this is very true, if the pistons are seized its new caliper time - pins can be regreased and fixed up

[Lageoddvin]

On 6/19/2021 at 8:58 PM, Aaron G said:

@LageoddvinThanks for that. I'm having some serious problems finding a competent mobile mechanic and I don't trust the dealers to do anything. I'm a carpenter by trade and don't agree with just watching a Youtube video or reading a forum and assuming you're able to do another trade's job right after.

So I left the important jobs to the mechanics: coolant, brakes, brake fluid, etc. But If I listed all the bodge-ups the past 3 mechanics I've employed have made, I think I'd be better off at having a go at DIY destroying it myself.

I mean when mechanics are happy to let your brakes seize up and let you die, what have you got to lose?.

And one thing you do is save money.

Changing rotors + pads on all four wheels, i was quoted £3000 (Norway🙃) from all workshops i asked for quotes from.

I spent a week doing the job, because once i got it disassembled i found broken threads on bolts, siezed pistons etc, so had to change calipers and holders on the front. And a lot of rust everywhere (Norwegian winter + salting of roads), so i basically had to beat everything into submission. Rear calipers involved the rear of an axe to twist the caliper of the rotor (copper paste be damned). Had to buy tools etc to handle the extra work, but overall i spent about £900 on parts and tools, tools being about half of this.  You get a very nice feeling of mastery once your done with it 🙂

Apart from the above i just followed this one on my mobile phone:

 

 

[Aaron G]

@Lageoddvin Thanks for the link. £3000🤣 I paid that for my car. After the first mobile mechanic mixed water (probably tap water) into premixed coolant, didn't re-attach the hoses properly, did the copper grease thing, and then the second one now wants me to buy an entire new diesel assembly to replace the fuel filter + labour to remove the rear differential - because Lexus made it so difficult to get to apparently. Plus he bent all the jacking points on my car.

...So I'm starting to come around to the realisation that I'm better off watching Youtube videos and doing things myself. The dealerships arn't gonna do it, the mobile mechanics arn't either or they're gonna bodge it up. Even when it comes to brakes and people's lives. And that was with me standing there watching them.

When the second mechanic bled all the brakes, his assistant  was complaining because he had obviously never done all four like that. They just typically replace the fluid in the reservoir I expect.

So I might not be seeing the whole picture as a mechanic by doing it myself, but at least I know it was done. In the case of seized calipers, they're not doing anything anyway. The worst I can do is not reassemble them properly and something flies off into the wheel. But I'm not that useless. THe first mechanic didn't even torque the wheel nuts on my car properly.

Pathetic state of affairs. I don't mind paying people to do a job, but there's prabably not even a guarantee that if you paid them £3000 they'd still do the job properly.

 

 

[toffee_pie]

On 6/22/2021 at 10:00 AM, Lageoddvin said:

i was quoted £3000

now I see why they charge £25 or whatever crazy figure it is for a pint in Norway.😐

[steve2006]

Ii now use RRB (Red Rubber Grease) on the calliper slide pins, very thick and sticky, doesn’t wash out  and doesn’t affect the rubber dust seals. Only need a thin smear on the pins.

Mine is now 27 years old at 96,000 miles and never suffered from a “seized” calliper which are all original along with the discs.

A small tin is around a fiver and will last you years.

[Brian R]

9 hours ago, steve2006 said:

Ii now use RRB (Red Rubber Grease) on the calliper slide pins, very thick and sticky, doesn’t wash out  and doesn’t affect the rubber dust seals. Only need a thin smear on the pins.

Mine is now 27 years old at 96,000 miles and never suffered from a “seized” calliper which are all original along with the discs.

A small tin is around a fiver and will last you years.

Absolutely the right stuff to use and apologies if I am repeating what might already have been said, but you should not use "normal" grease on any rubber component. Essentially, normal grease will degrade rubber and is totally incompatible. Red rubber grease is designed to be compatible and is readily sold by the usual culprits or easily sourced on say amazon.

As for using copper grease elsewhere on brake components or disc/wheel mating, then simply do not do this! You should use a grease like Cera Tec which is specifically for metal on metal contact parts and is particularly suited to the high temperatures around brake disc areas. Conventional greases will rapidly go walkies as heat is produced by braking.

[Aaron G]

Thanks again for the replies gents. This is basic stuff that every mechanic should know. As a carpenter, if I knocked through an internal load bearing wall without the slightest clue of what I was doing, and didn't reinforce it properly, I'd end up killing people at a later stage.

I put this brake issue in the same category. I suppose it's somewhere between incompetence,  money saving/making, a total lack of responsibility and knowledge that they'll face no consequnces if anything went wrong.

As mentioned, I'm probably better off doing it myself and taking my chances. And that is a pathetic situation to be in.

 

[steve2006]

Quite a few members have used this company for brake parts and refurbished callipers.

[toffee_pie]

These guys are terrific - my rear calliper was seized on the Subaru and got one on this site - bargain price compared to the OEM cost also

https://brakeparts.co.uk/shop/Lexus/Is220/05-12/Is220 Gse20 2.2 Diesel/Rear - Brake Calipers and Wheel Cylinders/BCA5034

[Aaron G]

Much appreciated gents. Will update here when I've done the job. If not, the brakes seized up in the mean time and I'm probably dead.