What If / When, The Electric Hybrid Part Goes Kaput Ls600

Malc · June 13, 2014

Guys,

I'm starting this thread even tho' I'm about to go away for a two week cruise to the Norwegian fjords.

As you may have read, I'm aghast that the hybrid batteries stuff on the Ls600 is scheduled to last 8 years.

Rather than just worrying about replacing them at a probable zillion ££££££s WHAT IF one just didn't, and simply ran the car on petrol ?

Thoughts please ......

Thanks

Malc

Adam Evans · June 13, 2014

Well when there is no electricity I am lead to believe that the car will run on petrol and charge the batteries

Maybe there is a fuse you can pull to disable it all, Maybe the car would get more MPG too because the petrol engine would not be laboured by generating energy for the electric engine

mr2lad · June 13, 2014

Laboured by generating energy...... Your having a laugh aren't you..... I've had 2 hybrids and the last thing I'd say is it's laboured as for more mpg what do you think the hybrid bit in car is for= more mpg ....... :/

Adam Evans · June 13, 2014

Laboured by generating energy...... Your having a laugh aren't you..... I've had 2 hybrids and the last thing I'd say is it's laboured as for more mpg what do you think the hybrid bit in car is for= more mpg ....... :/

Nope no laugh

What do you think happens when you put your air con on - the engine is put under more labour because it has to turn an extra pulley

I am guessing that the generator for the electric batteries/engine is some form of alternator with a clutch pulley which when enabled will put the petrol engine under more stress causing it to use more petrol to generate electricity

Please correct me if I am wrong

mr2lad · June 13, 2014

Sorry I'm rolling around the floor here laughing...... On your understanding the hybrid is a waste of time and reducing mpg by having it...... Best you inform the lexus techs ;) so they can recall all hybrids and take them out as there doing nothing but labouring and costing us fuel .... :) ;)

Malc · June 14, 2014

But the answer to my Q is ???

Malc

tonyricha · June 14, 2014

It wont run on just petrol, the hybrid system has to energise to start the petrol engine, no starter motor here! Do you really think a progressive manufacturer like Lexus would stake its reputation on a weak product that only lasts 8 years? My GS hybrid is on 200,000 with no faults or drop off from the Battery pack, that already is way more than the average car manages in its lifetime.

cruisermark · June 14, 2014

the above comment is very re-assuring. - i didnt know about the starter motors - tony how does the steering feel - lighter or heavier than normal power steering?

Adam Evans · June 14, 2014

Sorry I'm rolling around the floor here laughing...... On your understanding the hybrid is a waste of time and reducing mpg by having it...... Best you inform the lexus techs ;) so they can recall all hybrids and take them out as there doing nothing but labouring and costing us fuel .... :) ;)

Laugh all you want as far as I was aware to create energy you first must use energy

Kind of like driving a bike all day. If it is just a bike then you will need less energy than if there was a dynamo on the front wheel powering a front lamp

Anyway please enlighten me as to how the electrical engines receive power as I really do not know.

Adam Evans · June 14, 2014

Found this

http://blog.lexus.co.uk/2013/08/how-does-lexus-hybrid-drive-work/#.U5yc5Sg63eA

Very interesting read

Tells you how the petrol engine is used to power the batteries when they are needed to be charged up

Also tells you how when going down hill how the electric motors kick in in reverse to gain some charge from the wasted energy there too

All of this in my opinion just adds friction to the running gear and would be like driving a car around town with 2 clicks on the handbrake and 5 bags of cement in the boot.

Also read this for a bit of information on the REAL LIFE MPG figures

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/38182/lexus-ls600h-l

It states that around town you will get no where near the stated 30.4mpg more like 20mpg (which is what my LS400 gets)

Basically from reading all of this I have come to the conclusion that it is a lot of car (very nice car) but there are nicer cheaper things out there

GoldfingerLS · June 14, 2014

It wont run on just petrol, the hybrid system has to energise to start the petrol engine, no starter motor here! Do you really think a progressive manufacturer like Lexus would stake its reputation on a weak product that only lasts 8 years? My GS hybrid is on 200,000 with no faults or drop off from the battery pack, that already is way more than the average car manages in its lifetime.

"Do you really think a progressive manufacturer like Lexus would stake its reputation on a weak product that only lasts 8 years" A "reputable" manufacturer like Mercedes has cheaped out on quality, whats there to say that Lexus wouldnt do it ?

GoldfingerLS · June 14, 2014

Guys,

I'm starting this thread even tho' I'm about to go away for a two week cruise to the Norwegian fjords.

As you may have read, I'm aghast that the hybrid batteries stuff on the Ls600 is scheduled to last 8 years.

Rather than just worrying about replacing them at a probable zillion ££££££s WHAT IF one just didn't, and simply ran the car on petrol ?

Thoughts please ......

Thanks

Malc

Malc,

Good question.

As far as I know, the CVT gearbox doesnt have a reverse gear. Apparently the car reverses by reversing the polarity on the electric motor. This was an issue on the very early Prius cars where owners in San Francisco complained that when Battery charge was low they were not able to reverse up steap hills but Toyota remediated the problem. So to answer your question you could lose reverse gear. If my knowledge is out of date or the LS600 works differently I would be interested to know.

tonyricha · June 14, 2014

450h will only use petrol when started from cold yet mine reverses just fine with the petrol engine running at startup.

ColinBarber · June 15, 2014

450h will only use petrol when started from cold yet mine reverses just fine with the petrol engine running at startup.

The engine may be running but isn't directly driving the wheels when in reverse. It is running to get up to temperature so that heat can be used to bring the cabin up to temperature.

If the hybrid batteries are low/over temp then the engine will drive the generator which will supply power to the electric motor.

GoldfingerLS · June 15, 2014

450h will only use petrol when started from cold yet mine reverses just fine with the petrol engine running at startup.

The engine may be running but isn't directly driving the wheels when in reverse. It is running to get up to temperature so that heat can be used to bring the cabin up to temperature.

If the hybrid batteries are low/over temp then the engine will drive the generator which will supply power to the electric motor.

Thats what ive seen before aswell. if you have the heating or air con while stand still, the petrol engine will start up to heat or cool the car.

ColinBarber · June 15, 2014

once the engine is up to temp. it will cut in and out to maintain temperature, it won't run continuously. Also to cool, the engine isn't needed as it uses an electric compressor, in fact there are no drive belts on the engine or a starter motor. Gen 3 hybrid systems (Prius Mk3 etc) use an electric heater so it doesn't have to rely on the engine at all if there is enough power in the hybrid batteries.

Malc · June 26, 2014

Hi guys, now just back from my Fjord experience, wow, it's great but you wouldn't want the cost of living in Norway that's for sure !!!

Anyway, where were we with my Q ??

having read the answers I'm still not certain if there is a definitive Ls600 answer on NOT having to need the hybrid pack to function ........ does it really need an electric system to go backwards ???

Malc

ColinBarber · June 26, 2014

it does need electric to go backwards but that can come from the generator rather than the hybrid Battery.

If the hybrid Battery is missing I would be very surprised if the system would run normally. I doubt you will find anybody willing to try this though on their 600h.

The hybrid pack itself is made up of block of cells. Block or cells could be replaced by a third party so the whole thing may not need to be replaced.