Whats Better Ls400 Or Ls430

[Adam Evans]

Bit of a light hearted discussion however someone seemed to think that it is FACT that the LS430 is a better car so I just wanted to put my side of the argument in a non argumentative way :P

My LS400 is brilliant because..........................................:

It has TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY TWO THOUSAND MILES on the clock and it still drives like its brand new !!!

My air conditioning blows out of the vents at MINUS 1.5°C

The air suspension has never broken down and left me "carless" (because it doesn't have it)

The rear fridge hasn't failed and needed capping (because it doesn't have one)

I have the 1UZFE engine which does not suffer from Valve Seat Recession on LPG (I believe the 3UZFE does)

The Battery on my LS400 does not go flat if I leave it for a while (does not have passive keyless entry)

My exhaust being FULLY stainless (apart from the Y-piece) is still in perfect condition, I wonder how the economy exhaust is on the LS430 being mild steel ??

The LS400 comes with standard 16" wheels whereas the LS430 comes with 17" meaning more expensive tyres for the LS430

The LS430 has too many toys to go wrong in my opinion

Anyway feel free to fight your corner

I challenge ye to a duel !!!!

[harrylime]

couple of little anomalies that affect me:

my ls400 has 17" wheels (dynamic handling pack)

My ls400 does let me down if I leave it for a while - new Battery fitted, still an issue.

Love my ls400 and did not buy a 430, partly because a lexus service manager advised me, on no account, to buy a 430 withoud a good, long warranty. I would consider a 430 though, I'm sure they are lovely cars, sharing the same DNA

[Adam Evans]

I'm sure they are really nice but again harry, a Lexus Service Manager advised you to keep your money !!!

Shows how great these cars really are

[messi]

The ls430 is a nice car, I've had 2, but my ls400 is more reliable, the Battery on mine doesn't go flat if I leave it standing for 3 or 4 weeks, like Adam said ls430 aswell as having air suspension and compressor issues, it also has the vsv issue, rear doors jamming shut so they won't open, cd player stops working, rear subwoofer cone tears apart, vsc sensor issues on the rear, Windows clouding up, I can't think of anything else at this stage

[hihihi]

Ah Adam, you appear a proud man.

For those wishing to read a less "light hearted discussion" on Lexus' Luxury Sedans, I recommend the thread "Common Fault", started by Chris, aka Maduggo.

[Adam Evans]

Thats a really interesting read

Not many MK4 on there at all

Good read though

I will go over my car with a fine tooth-comb over the weekend and write a list up on my car

[Maduggo]

I find this original post quite disconcerting from a lexus user, you say you not looking for an argument but by the comments made it looks like you are. Kind of underhanded approach really.

Also i think the comments are flawed.

You cannot really compare two products that are built differently with different parts.

Examples

Air vs normal suspension, totally different things which can go wrong equally badly and leave both versions with a car that should not be moved,

Fridge, an item in honesty that does not bother me, not an item i look for on a list of options to choose a car by and nor should be. How many have failed, do we know ?

I have the 1UZFE engine which does not suffer from Valve Seat Recession on LPG (I believe the 3UZFE does).... You believe it does, i beleive jumbo jets are unsafe because they can be painted blue, a petty comment but i'm sure you get the point of "i believe". You also make this comment towards LPG, not many people convert their cars to LPG so it is not really applicable, what you should have said was... VSR on LPG could possibly occur but it is a risk you take if you convert to LPG from standard. Again how many have failed with this issue as the diagnosis.

The Battery drain, if the keyless start is not activated by the button then it won't drain the power as it is not on, anything left on will drain the Battery, thats the way it is, a car sitting on a drive with the alarm armed will drain the Battery slowly.

Fully stainless exhaust apart from the Y piece, no prizes why they did that is there, think about it, and it is not because they could't do it, they know that bit will fail in time, meaning you need a new one, Why they did not put stainless on the 430 is Lexus to answer, but it is not the end of the world, millions of cars have steel exhausts, so is it a real problem why then need replacing.

The LS400 does in fact come with 17inch rims which has already been answered.

More expensive tyres, you get what you pay for, you can get a trye for my car a £36, probably not round or black, may not be rubber or have a reliable tread, but it's new.

Not arguing just putting my points into the fray.

As for the topic i started, common fault. the list is showing the 400 suffering more issues than the 430.

Many issues can be prevented by good proper care of our cars, some we have no control over as things do break. Good routine maintenance and good servicing will stop many issues.

This weekend for example, my 430 refused to start, or light up on key insertion, hunting about i removed all fuses as i thought it could be a busted one, none busted but when they were all clean and back in place the car started and has run perfectly since, could this have been prevented, maybe, fuse contacts do corrode over time if not moved i have since found out from an auto electrician, damp then dry in the air is the prime cause and add to that our fuses don't very often need replacing so we forget their even there.

Why do you not mention any of the real issues we Lexus owners want addressing.

The rims, why do Lexus make nice cars and put the crappest quality alloys on them known to galactic life,

Why do they put "toys" on a car that serves only as a selling point, fridge for example, read my comment above.

The conflicting issue of parts prices, from Lexus direct add a big markup, genuine part from an indipendant cheap as any other big manufacturer in relation.

Many others we could gripe about but i don't have the time to go further.

[harrylime]

I agree with Chris. it is pointless to debate which is better. It is horses for courses and personal choice. The really important point to note is that I would probably have either over a BMW or Mercedes, having experienced mine, for fear of horrendous repair bills.

[Quinny]

Why are the 430 wheels so poor..mine are flaking badly..do you guys recommend refurbish or new wheels?

[Scribe]

Adam said that he wanted to put his side of the argument in a non-argumentative way, and then challenged people to fight their corner and duel with him. I know he meant this lightheartedly, but I think there's a danger of us 400 owners appearing smug and anti-430, which most of us aren't, when we talk about all the problems our cars don't have. There are good 400s and lousy ones, just as there are good 430s and lousy ones. A lot depends on how they've been maintained before we buy them.

My view is that the 430 is a better car but not necessarily a better buy. Most of the additional toys are nice but unnecessary and worrying in terms of their potential to go wrong and need fixing. So I don't want a 430 at the moment because it wouldn't offer me anything worth paying a lot of extra money for. But I'm sure that I'll have one some day. After all, what else is there after a 400?

[Malc]

probably a Ls600 the way the prices are collapsing !!

Malc

[harrylime]

Well put Scribe. Funnily enough Malc, I keep looking at 600s, as I don't know where I'll go after the 400, if maintenance costs or cosmetic upkeep become a problem due to age (the car not me). They do seem incredible value, but at the moment I'm just an old fart in a quaint old barge. The 600 is a lot more ostentatious, with a completely different image, and obviously more complex. I would baulk at the idea of paying ridiculous amounts in road tax as well.

The hybrids are a possibility and I quite like the look of the GS 450h. However, the idea that Lexus built a 2 tonne car that is not designed to take a towbar limits its appeal though, crazy if only for garden trailers/bike racks etc.

It occurred to me that if Lexus could make the LS V8 in a smaller format - say 2.5 - 3.0 litres and retain the refinement, that would take some beating in a smaller model

[Scribe]

'probably a Ls600 the way the prices are collapsing' - collapse away pleaseI

'I'm just an old fart in a quaint old barge' - you and me both!

[Malc]

Well.me too of course, not many others would drive a Ls400 .......... but the 600, it's growing on me even though I haven't yet seen one to my knowledge !

When a £100,000 car at 6 years old only commands £13k .......... . and a trade in value of probably @ £ 8k, then I know it's only going to be a year or two before they are not a lot greater than scrap value !!!

Keeping them on the road with inexpensive parts will be the challenge and that's of course why the present residual values are just about bugger all.

Let's review all this in a couple of years. My Ls400 is still going ok and she loves me to bits I'm sure, after all, she costs me more in food and lodging than anything else in my family !!!

The Ls600 will become an old man's car too, after all, who but old geezers with a pot of cash would want to keep an ancient relic on the road ............ a bit akin to a roman chariot maybe

Malc

[messi]

What about the ls460? Isn't that car any good?

[Malc]

Ls460 is probably an excellent car too. I must admit that when the time came I was going to go straight for the 460 and bypass the 430 BUT with the 600s collapsing in value / price I think that's maybe the way I will be going .... but a long while off yet tho'

Remember my son-in-law, ( car body sprayer etc ) a couple of years ago had a Ls600 in for a bonnet spray and fix etc ( minor front end damage ) ..... a £7000 job ............ of which £4k was the gadget in the front of the rad that told the car when to stop, but as with most things it wasn't quite quick enough !

Malc

[Scribe]

As I just waft around in a stately fashion, rarely getting above 2000 r.p.m., I'm sure a 460 would be more than adequate for me. And I'll work out for myself when I need to brake, and how hard! Trouble is, I don't think it would fit in my garage. (A 430 would because the length and width are about the same as the 400.)

[Malc]

Huh, a garage .......... if i get a Ls600 it will most ceratinly fit ok ...... in the open. Not used a garage for a car .... hmmm..... ever !!!

Malc

[Bluesman]

Well.me too of course, not many others would drive a Ls400 .......... but the 600, it's growing on me even though I haven't yet seen one to my knowledge !

When a £100,000 car at 6 years old only commands £13k .......... . and a trade in value of probably @ £ 8k, then I know it's only going to be a year or two before they are not a lot greater than scrap value !!!

Keeping them on the road with inexpensive parts will be the challenge and that's of course why the present residual values are just about bugger all.

Let's review all this in a couple of years. My Ls400 is still going ok and she loves me to bits I'm sure, after all, she costs me more in food and lodging than anything else in my family !!!

The Ls600 will become an old man's car too, after all, who but old geezers with a pot of cash would want to keep an ancient relic on the road ............ a bit akin to a roman chariot maybe

Malc

The same depreciation happens on the Phaeton and many others as well. That makes what we do the most sensible motoring from many different angles. Mike.

[Adam Evans]

Adam

said that he wanted to put his side of the argument in a

non-argumentative way, and then challenged people to fight their corner

and duel with him.

I said

I challenge ye to a duel !!!!

Quite clearly in a jokey way as I know no-one who talks like this anymore !!

No harm meant at all

I had a choice to get a LS430 when I was looking, It had same mileage as my car has and had the premium pack but if any of its special toys were to go wrong I would not be able to afford to fix it

I just feel that "in my opinion" the LS400 is more "connected" rather than "unconnected" for example springs and shocks rather than air suspension, cable operated throttle rather than electronic. These are just a few but I could go on

I am not saying LS430 isn't a nicer car because I think that it is but in terms of quality I think that when they made the LS400 it was all to do with the car and the people and when they built the LS430 it was more about profit and cost cutting. For example LS400 exhaust is stainless and will never need replacing and on the LS430 the exhaust is mild steel which given time will rust.

LS430 is still a nice car but I think it was made on a tighter budget

[Malc]

Oh my, just reading on the USA Lexus forum re Ls600 ..... the Hybrid stuff is expected to last all of 8, YES 8 years.

A pair of new headlights @ $10,000 ( in 2007 tho )

Think my Ls400 going to have to last forever !!

Malc

[Maduggo]

Oh my, just reading on the USA Lexus forum re Ls600 ..... the Hybrid stuff is expected to last all of 8, YES 8 years.

A pair of new headlights @ $10,000 ( in 2007 tho )

Think my Ls400 going to have to last forever !!

Malc

This hybrid stuff is not all it is made out to be. Slight topic sideways shunt here.

Don't know who it was but a forum member worked out that a prius will be more costly than a 400 after regular maintenance etc.

And my comments were made light heartedly, i was making a point that 2 cars can't really be judged against each other as they have different specs, i will admit that the 400 and 430 are closely related but are still different in many ways. Some better some worse.

And in honesty it does gaul me that we often see the term aimed at 430 cars, it's a common fault, i did a common fault thread, very few 430's were on it, mainly 400's with the same faults.

My car has air suspension and it feels well planted to the floor, it's been to a track day a did exceptionally well beating on times by some dedicated sportier cars.

And lets be honest here, we have luxury cars in the 400 and 430, 460 and 600 included, parts will not be that cheap, i have said before about this, if you own a luxury car then expect to pay more in repairs.

I agree that the more toys, gadgets etc do make the chance for more to go wrong, but as i said, proper servicing and routine maintenance including preventative maintenance should fend off many of these.

My other aim is that we should be celebrating the fact we have managed to own a piece of luxury motoring, we should be telling lexus that some of the build quality is not as good as it could be, wheels flaking for example.

[Adam Evans]

I have the bigger more expensive wheels on mine and they don't flake

They are the DHP wheels, come to think about it how do I find out if my car is DHP or not !!

[messi]

It would tell you on the v5

[Scribe]

Don't know who it was but a forum member worked out that a prius will be more costly than a 400 after regular maintenance etc.

I can imagine that's right about the Prius. After you've bought new batteries it's not going to be cheap to run. Nor very green when you take into account the carbon footprint of the Battery manufacture. Is it true that solar panels also have to be replaced after a few years?

Re the LS430: someone on here (was it Malc?) suggested that Lexus felt they needed to update the 400 with something a bit flashier and with more toys, and that quality was compromised in the process. Which was okay for company cars bought new (and under warranty) but not so good after several years' hard use. But couldn't the same be said of other luxury makes? Mercedes seem not to have the quality they used to. I believe I'm right in saying that all right-hand-drive Mercs and BMWs are built in South Africa, not Germany.