Rear Break Noise

Shepherd · June 9, 2014

Hi all

About a week ago, the rear passenger side started to create a knocking sound. The sound is completly random, can be at any speed and does not go away with braking. Seems to be more while accelerating turning left but that might be my imagination. I took car to local garage, and they took wheel off, moved and prodded everything in there and said they could find nothing that would make that sound, and that it could be the heat shield making this sound. They greased something in the brakes and I drove away. The sound came back straight after. So I took it back to them. They had an even closer look and went with me on a test drive to hear the sound. Conclusion was that one of the slide pins in the brake was a bit loose and other than it vibrating to and fro, there was nothing wrong they could find. They tightened up the slide pin (I don't know how) and I drove away and there was no sound for two days however it has come back. I went into Lexus to get a pair of slide pins today. A jaw droping 44 pounds + vat for two pins and couple of spring clips. It's called something like rear brake fitment kit.

So, does anyone have suggestion what it might be? and any where I can get the slide pins for cheaper than lexus leeds?

Thanks

is200 Newbie · June 10, 2014

Hi Shephard

This is just my experience / opinion but a loose slide pin rattling ... that's not possible as there's too much pressure there in the operation of the pads and also the grease in the slide pin recess would not allow a rattle.

This might be an easy fix however. I have noticed that the jack in the boot, on mine anyway, does not secure that well into its holding mount and I would imagine that if this is loose then it can rattle especially when cornering but whether this is loud enough would be questionable. Its an easy thing to check though. Might be worth a look...

aly-g · June 11, 2014

A loose slide pin on a lexus caliper that must be a first !!! .... I agree with noo bie it is most unlikely to be be slide pin loose, good call on the jack being loose but the jack is on the right hand side of boot, maybe something fallen down by the spare wheel in the boot....

Allan

Shepherd · June 11, 2014

Thanks all.The jack was loose. I thightened it but the sound is still there. Could it be coming from CV joint ? Still surprised why the garage didn't find it. They spent a good half hour dismanteling and putting back the break and another 15 mins proding under the the car anything they thought could come loose. I'll try and record the sound tomorrow and share it here if that would give any ideas

Shepherd · June 13, 2014

It was a loose pin. Took it to garage again and they tightened it properly this time. To me it feels like it must have gotten seized and the previous owner after finall getting out must have ground it to make it loose.

Thats the only explanation I can think off for such a loose slide pin

Thanks for your hep guys

is200 Newbie · June 13, 2014

Hi Shephard

Something does not sound right in what they have done - I have attached a picture showing an old calliper of mine - there is only one removable slide pin on the rear unit - the other one is attached to the calliper plate.

The right hand side of the calliper on the picture shows the recess in the calliper body (looks like a tube) where the slide pin (that you cannot see) is located and slides in.

The bolt on the left hand side is the removable pin.

The bolt sits in a rubber sleeve that you can see in the picture and its actually the rubber sleeve that's greased on that side. The pin on the other side you can only get to when the slide plate is taken off, after you have removed the bolt. Both need greasing.

The only way that this can rattle is if the rubber boot around the slide bolt is missing but even then you would need the bolt to have not been screwed into the thread at all and if that was the case it would have been lost while driving.

There's something a miss in what they have done here and if you can I would get the wheel off to have a look. Could it be that the actual calliper itself was loose? If that's the case then I would definitely get out and check the others for security.

johnatg · June 13, 2014

I'd suggest a read of the document attached to the post by SP33DY here on 3rd January 2012 titled 'Slide Pin In The Rear Brake Calipers Seized (Check Yours)'

aly-g · June 13, 2014

I agree with noo bie something does not sound right here, you would not need to grind the slide pin to get it out of the caliper, if it was seized and then released it would only need cleaning greasing then replacing into the caliper, this pin is fixed to the caliper holding bracket, the other pin unscrews out of the caliper holding bracket, could have been the caliper holding bracket not tight on the hub....

Allan

XeXpLoReX · March 19, 2017

On 13/06/2014 at 6:10 PM, is200 Newbie said:

Hi Shephard

Something does not sound right in what they have done - I have attached a picture showing an old calliper of mine - there is only one removable slide pin on the rear unit - the other one is attached to the calliper plate.

The right hand side of the calliper on the picture shows the recess in the calliper body (looks like a tube) where the slide pin (that you cannot see) is located and slides in.

The bolt on the left hand side is the removable pin.

The bolt sits in a rubber sleeve that you can see in the picture and its actually the rubber sleeve that's greased on that side. The pin on the other side you can only get to when the slide plate is taken off, after you have removed the bolt. Both need greasing.

The only way that this can rattle is if the rubber boot around the slide bolt is missing but even then you would need the bolt to have not been screwed into the thread at all and if that was the case it would have been lost while driving.

There's something a miss in what they have done here and if you can I would get the wheel off to have a look. Could it be that the actual calliper itself was loose? If that's the case then I would definitely get out and check the others for security.

The hidden slide pin has broken off on mine, so will need to be drilled out, what a useless design

is200 Newbie · March 19, 2017

The design is ok - where the issue is comes from the fact that the pins are not regularly greased either by the service schedule via Lexus or by the owner.

If you put your car in for a service through an indie then they will not be aware to do these as its not on any schedule - the only way they will do it is if you ask them to.

The "hidden" pin is actually a bolt shrouded in a rubber boot (if that's the one you mean, the other one is more like a fixed pin on the carrier. Both of these are quite substantial bolts and should not snap unless - they can do if the caliper has seized and it snaps while trying to free it.

Regular maintenance in greasing the pins will ensure the bolts don't need to be forced off.

johnatg · March 19, 2017

The pin isn't actually fixed - it unscrews from the carrier (there's a hex socket in the end into which you can insert an allen key). You don't seem to be able to get replacements easily though, so maybe academic.

There is a consequence though - on the nearside, if the caliper is stuck on the pin you have a chance of rotating the caliper to free it. But on the offside a well stuck (in the caliper) pin is liable to just unscrew from the carrier if you try and rotate the caliper, so that you can only apply force in an outwards, rather than rotational, direction. That tends to be harder to do without damaging the caliper. The caliper will only rotate a certain distance before it comes up against an obstruction.

XeXpLoReX · March 19, 2017

The design is cheap, even ford use a better design. Fronts aren't to bad, another pot would be nice front and back with proper sliders and cars pins

XeXpLoReX · March 19, 2017

1 hour ago, is200 Newbie said:

The design is ok - where the issue is comes from the fact that the pins are not regularly greased either by the service schedule via Lexus or by the owner.

If you put your car in for a service through an indie then they will not be aware to do these as its not on any schedule - the only way they will do it is if you ask them to.

The "hidden" pin is actually a bolt shrouded in a rubber boot (if that's the one you mean, the other one is more like a fixed pin on the carrier. Both of these are quite substantial bolts and should not snap unless - they can do if the caliper has seized and it snaps while trying to free it.

Regular maintenance in greasing the pins will ensure the bolts don't need to be forced off.

No it snapped while it was in, just started knocking the other side seams to be doing it to, I really don't understand why so many people trust stealers sorry I mean dealers, there are plenty of specialists out there for Japanese car of all types most will have mechanics that will be far more knowledgeable than the trainees in the dealers that they let loose on your cars. Don't get me wrong I love my Lexus just the inferior parts I keep finding when working on it upsets me, a car if it's value with not really any better build quality of any Toyota.

Verbout · March 19, 2017

I don't feel there is a design fault, manufacturing fault or any type of fault with the brake callipers or the sliding pins.

They are a maintenance item but are not checked at all by Lexus on any of their services as far as I know. You could go years without anyone removing a calliper if you are light on the brakes.

My car had three Lexus service stamps and when I checked over the car the calliper pins were absolutely solid.

If they are regularly looked at they cause no issue, if you don't look after them, guess what?

***** we do visit this topic regularly.

is200 Newbie · March 20, 2017

On ‎19‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 7:40 PM, Verbout said:

I don't feel there is a design fault, manufacturing fault or any type of fault with the brake callipers or the sliding pins.

They are a maintenance item but are not checked at all by Lexus on any of their services as far as I know. You could go years without anyone removing a calliper if you are light on the brakes.

My car had three Lexus service stamps and when I checked over the car the calliper pins were absolutely solid.

If they are regularly looked at they cause no issue, if you don't look after them, guess what?

***** we do visit this topic regularly.

It comes up that often it needs its own section !!

Verbout · March 20, 2017

10 minutes ago, is200 Newbie said:

It comes up that often it needs its own section !!

I don't know what the solution is my friend, I just know people don't get it, no matter how many times me and you trot out the same advice each time.

is200 Newbie · March 23, 2017

On ‎20‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 8:41 PM, Verbout said:

I don't know what the solution is my friend, I just know people don't get it, no matter how many times me and you trot out the same advice each time.

Verbout · March 23, 2017

Yep.

Mine due for a check next month.

is200 Newbie · March 23, 2017

Snap ... also oil and filter change and MOT ... ready for all of this good weather we are going to get !! - need to give it a good clean as well - haven't done that properly for quite some time now.

Expecting it to reach the 100k mark by next week also - and still no issue with seized callipers cos I regularly grease the pins

Verbout · March 23, 2017

Yep all of the above, just got oil and filters for wife's and mine. Busy next few days but end of month should be ready.

I've read Rayanns detailing guide, very good, and have a clay mit and some Prima Amigo to give both cars a treat, both black so I'm hoping for a good result.