What A Time For This To Happen

[Scribe]

That makes a total cost (including VAT) of £5,000. I'm shocked. Many of us would spend several thousand on a much older Lexus than yours and expect years of reliable motoring. I'd like to buy your wife a drink!

[mick4545]

The warranty is with Lexus UK and I was told they may want to inspect the car themselves because of the costs involved. They have not done so, and have accepted Chelenham's diagnosies. I also included the fault report from Germany with HiHiHi's translation into English.

I will be asking the following questions:

What was the exact problem

What caused it.

Is it likely to happen again.

Can anyone think of anymore?

[royoftherovers]

Can I have an equivalent loan car for the duration of the repair?

What warranties will I have on all aspects of the repair?

Can I have the next 2 services free of charge?

Good luck

Regards

John

[Malc]

Just make sure there are no warning lights coming on after the repair .............. hopes there is a real need for a repair rather than just some weird and wonderful electrical gremiln !!!

Malc

[Titch LS]

Sorry Ambermarine, but when did you last hear of a 'wrongly set up' Lexus engine? or any other modern engine for that matter. In a world leading, state-of-the-art engine plant that just doesn't happen surely. Any wear on the camshafts (not crankshafts,as there is only one of those), would have shown up thousands of miles ago. More importantly, a 'wrong set up' and any resulting camshaft wear would noticeably affect the cars performance, which apparently, hasn't done so at all in this case, unless I read things wrongly. As previously mentioned, worn camshafts would also make a tell tale noise. Anyway, I'm just so surprised at the dealership's recommendation. I would have liked further investigation into it myself, but seeing as it is not costing Michael anything I don't suppose he's worried. Ho Hum, All's well that ends well.

[ambermarine]

Brian

The point I was trying to make is that Michael as no say in the diagnosis or its cure, apart from walking away and doing nothing which from reading the thread from origin is the last thing he would want to do.Yes the crankshaft is numero ono and that was a slip of the C's.As I have already said he can't lose whatever is wrong but as far as the diagnosis goes the outcome will be interesting.

[mick4545]

Just make sure there are no warning lights coming on after the repair .............. hopes there is a real need for a repair rather than just some weird and wonderful electrical gremiln !!!

Malc

It isn't a rouge electrical gremlin, there is a genuine problem. The over two hours of not only computer diagnosis but swapping valves around produced a report that is going to cost Lexus UK a lot money, and they have agreed to pay without carrying out their own inspection.

To me the engine feels fine, no rough running or strange noises just the yellow warning light.

[Titch LS]

Ambermarine, point taken. The outcome will indeed be interesting.

[mick4545]

Here's the SP:

The engine has Variable Valve Timing. At the end of the camshaft is an oil pressure regulated gear assembly that controls the variable valve timing. A spring in this assembly has weakened causing the ignition to be too far advanced. Just one camshaft was renewed at a cost of £367. Total cost inc other parts and labour £1987.99.

The mechanic told me this was only the second time he had ever seen this fault. The other time was on the same cylinder bank 1. I don't know how many 600s they have sold but it can't be many, so two with this fault is I suspect more than a coincidence. I have 12 months extended warranty left and I will be extending when it runs out.

[Malc]

Thank heavens it's sorted.

Now for many years of trouble free motoring.

Malc

[Malc]

Ok, just thinking aloud here now ......... the Lexus diagnostic check said you needed 4 new camshafts and thank heavens you didn't BUT just goes to show how incorrect even the very best diagnostics, with zillions spent developing the kit, can show up wrong issues.

In any event the engine had to be taken to pieces BUT it then comes down to a simple expert guy with his hands on the job sorting a slightly different issue.

How do we ever get to trust diagnostics for the future I ask !!

Malc

[mick4545]

Well Malc, the dianostics did show the ingnition too far advanced, which would never have discovered without the diagnostics.

[mick4545]

Here we go again. Warning light back. Intermittent at the moment. I'll give Lexus a call on Mon just to flag it up, and wait until its on permanently before booking it in.

The car is also subject to the 'Engine Fuel Pressure Sensor' recall so they can fix that at the same time.

[Calders]

Wasn't expecting that, wow!! Out of interest how many miles has the car done?

[mick4545]

Less then 37,000. Took it for a run today and no fault warning, so I'll have to wait until the light is on all the time before taking it in for diagnostics. I'm assuming the problem is the same as last time.

[ambermarine]

Michael

As I said in an earlier post on this problem the engine as been set up wrong at initial manufacture .The weak spring is not the cause but a symptom and is now recurring because something is not right along the line.The sophisticated set up that is vvt-i as been around a while on the LS400 and the 430/ 460.

That being the case it is not new technology and any gremlins within the engineering design will have shown a long time ago.

The fact that as far as can be seen it as only occured twice in the history of the product points to a fault in the set up, it does'nt take much in terms of thousands of an inch in these machine environments.

I would ask Lexus to take a serious view as to replacing this engine because it looks like they hav'nt solved the problem and you do not want the rest of your life devoted to that.

[mick4545]

I think you're right. I have just spoken to Lexus Cheltenham to flag up the problem. I took the car for a run yesterday and the fault did'nt show. The car won't get a decent run until the 27th when I'm driving to Hamburg for the new year. I'm sure the light will be on permanently on my return, I Won't have it cleared in Europe as that clears the fault report, I want a Lexus Cheltenham diagnostics report.

Assuming its the same as was diagnosed in Germany I will ask Lexus UK to inspect the car and provide a permanent solution.

I don't have all that much faith in Lexus UK after the problems I had with a replacement windscreen and the cover for the rain sensor not fitting. They replied to my email promising a swift resolution... No reply was recieved.

[ambermarine]

I can well see why you are p------d off,the thought of driving to Hamburg in the new year dreading the anticipated warning light does not make grounds for a happy occasion, which emphasises my point regarding engine replacement .

You have given them a go at sorting it and it looks like a fail they should now respond in a decisive manner and eliminate any more stress this problem could load on you.

The manufacturers warranty they cover your car with is after all an insurance cover for them they get paid from an insurance company if they have to replace the engine they don't fork out the cost from their own pocket .

[Malc]

One rogue engine to be replaced by Toyota worldwide is less than an ant's ***** in the great scheme of Toyota costs and expenses....... especially with their Flagship limo...............

........................... so push for that replacement

Malc

[mick4545]

During the Hamburg trip the light only came on for a few seconds. It pulsed bright then faded. It did not return. The dealer said any fault should be recorded in memory so I took it in for diagnostics... No errors found in diagnostic report.

I don't know what to do now, the car is running perfectly well, but there is that nagging doubt in the back of my mind. It is used mailnly for long distance European trips and reliabillity is essential. The car goes in next Tue for the 'Engine Fuel Pressure Sensor' recall and I've asked for a trade in price against an NX 300h which I will be testing whilst the work is done. But I don't think I'll be able to accept the step down from the LS.

The engine in the 600 never gets stressed as even when acelerating the electric motor helps out to keep the revs down and I don't think running at just over tickover for long periods of time does it any good, so on an empty unrestricted autobahn on new years day I took the opportunity to give it a work out. A run at 130 mph then into Sport\PWR and a series of flat out sprints from 50 to 120. I don't know it it did the engine any good, but it did me some.

[Hayne]

NX300h? That's a huge step-down from your beautiful £100k super-luxury car. It's a shame you're having this problem with your engine, but dealers are so pressured to perform that they are sometimes too quick to diagnose and can end up repairing a non-fault. Your problem is probably something very simple, especially at your very low mileage. Any Lexus should be able to do around 200k without major mechanical work being carried out.

I am seriously considering a LS600h next (although my GS450h is an excellent car and I am very happy with it). It will be interesting to see if they can correct your fault this time.

Good luck.

[mick4545]

I've calmed down a little now. There's nothing wrong with the engine, just this rouge warning light that could be anything. It may not come on again, no problems at all showing in the diagnostics test. I have a copy of the printout.

I probably won't bother testing the NX. Be intertesting to find the trade in value of an 09 600h with 37,000 on the clock though.

[Chris Skelton]

I recall a story of someone at Halfords giving the cashier an item to purchase.

Scans it.

"Sorry sir, we're out of stock of that item"

IT'S IN HIS HAND!

A metaphor for totally believing a computer readout as 'gospel'!

I agree re complexity. It only takes the weakest link in the chain to fail.

And not many people understand the whole picture, so just replace stuff.