Hybrid Battery Charge

[200h]

in the 6 months i have had this car the charge level has never exceeded the minus sign or half way up the plus sign

but today after coming down a fairly long hill the charge level went to the top of the plus sign,

so my question to you all is how high does your Battery level indicator ever show.

can you ever have a fully charged Battery ???

[KDS]

I have read that the Battery will in most circumstances never reach fully charged nor be fully depleted, you found a circumstance where after a long downhill you had the longest period of recharging and therefore the best chance of reaching full charge. In normal use the car is using Battery to mitigate petrol use wherever it can.

That is not just at low speeds in ev - just as it grabs charge whenever it can. It also stops drawing charge when Battery levels fall towards lowest level. So as you've experienced the Battery charge will oscillate within a range. On mine it seems to be between 20 and 80 %.

Sent from my Iphone using Lexus OC

[Snavekram]

Kevin is correct about the 20-80% range being the norm. I understand this is deliberate and intended to prolong Battery life. It obviously works because I know that 10 year Prius' are still going strong wrt the Battery and I think the number of replacements needed has been a very small proportion.

[ArjanOskam]

I wonder if it can be charged. Since I always drive low speeds. My hybrid Battery is empty when I arrive at home. Is it possible to charge it via a Battery charger somehow so I can leave in the morning with a full hybrid Battery?

[DarkoDarko]

I come down a lengthy stretch of the A2 every day that is pretty much down hill and my Battery always show full at the end of it, 

[Herbie]

On 3/11/2022 at 5:40 PM, ArjanOskam said:

I wonder if it can be charged. Since I always drive low speeds. My hybrid battery is empty when I arrive at home. Is it possible to charge it via a battery charger somehow so I can leave in the morning with a full hybrid battery?

Simple answer - no.

The actual voltage of the traction Battery varies by model and I've never had a CT so I can only speak as to the RX, which (IIRC) is 288V.

[Las Palmas]

Hybrid Battery does not need to be full to start the car. The Battery that needs to have power enough to start the computer in the car is the 12V standard Battery (more or less standard + ) and that is not much power the computer need. Then, if needed, the engine start and charge the hybrid Battery.

When we leave the car with almost full hybrid Battery in the evening it will still be almost full next morning. If we park the car with only 2 stripes on the hybrid it will have the same 2 in the morning when starting the car again. That is enough to start the engine to charge batteries.

Never had problems with this so far and 12V batteries have limited life in most cars so maybe a 5 - 6 year old Battery would have been changed if it was to start the engine as in non-hybrid cars, but here the engine is not started with a power-sucking starter motor like in non-hybrid cars so as long as you take care of having 12V available to start the computer and clean the hybrid Battery filter so it is not running hot, the car should be able to run without problems 15 - 20 years. That is what I thought when accepting the choice my wife made buying the CT. Otherwise I would have said: buy a pure gasoline car. No Battery except the 12V which we changed every 5 years in the few cars we have had that long (2).

Yes: we have had car showing full Battery very often. Every time going down from the mountains to sea level where we live.

 

 

[Thackeray]

On 3/11/2022 at 5:40 PM, ArjanOskam said:

My hybrid battery is empty when I arrive at home. Is it possible to charge it via a battery charger somehow so I can leave in the morning with a full hybrid battery?

The dashboard gauge doesn't represent the actual charge of the Battery. On the IS300h, the car's computer keeps the charge level no lower than 40%, at which point the engine will start to boost it to 50% and then the engine will stop if the car is stationary. The 40% level is shown as two bars on the dashboard and 50% is shown as three bars. In average use, the IS300h Battery stays in the range 50-60% most of the time and from memory, this range is represented on the dashboard as between three and six bars. The Battery will go higher on a long down-hill run but the maximum is 80% (eight bars) and at this point the car will start to spin the engine without fuel as a load to prevent the Battery charge going any higher or even to reduce the Battery charge.

It rather looks from this video of the Hybrid Assistant app that the Auris (and maybe the CT?) aims to keep the Battery in the 60% range rather than the 50s that I tend to see on the IS but I don't know if that's so or just what was happening on this video. On the video the Battery percentage appears at the bottom right of the app's panel.

Initially, most people have the instinct that a full Battery must be good, like a fuel tank, and a low Battery is bad, like an empty fuel tank. But that isn't the point of the Battery. The Battery is there to store the regenerated electricity produced when braking. If the Battery was full, there would be nowhere to store it. Instead, the computer aims to have the Battery about half full. Then there's room to store any regenerated electricity but also a reasonable amount of power available to briefly help with acceleration. This is not a purely electric car so the aim is not to have a full Battery. As a hybrid, its aim is to recapture energy that the petrol engine produces and then reuse it to improve the mpg.

[Las Palmas]

2 hours ago, Thackeray said:

The battery is there to store the regenerated electricity produced when braking. If the battery was full, there would be nowhere to store it. Instead, the computer aims to have the battery about half full. Then there's room to store any regenerated electricity but also a reasonable amount of power available to briefly help with acceleration. This is not a purely electric car so the aim is not to have a full battery. As a hybrid, its aim is to recapture energy that the petrol engine produces and then reuse it to improve the mpg.

That is the reason mountains are no good for hybrids. Going uphill 60 minutes mean 60 minutes of gasoline use. Going downhill 5 minutes and the hybrid Battery show 8 bars = full and the next 55 minutes to get back home at sea level there is no place for all the braking generated power. But the hybrid Battery is full when down in the underground garage. Next morning when going up to street level again even though 7 or 8 bars are shown in hybrid level when pressing the pedal to get up engine start.

[Zotto]

11 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

That is the reason mountains are no good for hybrids. 

Some  energy is better than "none"...  If up and downhilli traits are usually done a solution more energy efficient could be a plug-in hybrid, with a bigger Battery that can be discharged  driving uphill and recharged downhill without reaching full charge.

[Las Palmas]

5 hours ago, Zotto said:

Some  energy is better than "none"...  If up and downhilli traits are usually done a solution more energy efficient could be a plug-in hybrid, with a bigger battery that can be discharged  driving uphill and recharged downhill without reaching full charge.

A bigger and heavier Battery, will cost more fuel going uphill and when not having a place home to charge the plug-in it is a complete waste of a Battery. The pollution making a big Battery of completely different and more dangerous materials as the ones in a hybrid will make a plug-in as bad a choice as a car running only on Battery power.

The better choice is a hydrogen fuelled car, but that will have to wait as it is not yet possible here. No fuelling stations. I know it is stupid to have a combustion hydrogen car as the hydrogen is not yet made "fully green" and the tank will either have to be gigantic or the range will be very limited, but so is the range of EV cars. And a hydrogen combustion car will not have shorter range because it is winter like the EV cars. A hydrogen car will also not need to get a probably extremely expensive new Battery long before any other parts of the car needs service. Probably also will not have as many software problems as the EV cars.

[Zotto]

Ehm, also hydrogen cars have  a Battery comparable to a hybrid one.

But I think that your opinion about "hybrid cars are not good for uphill roads" is wrong 🙂

My suggestion is to try a eCVT hybrid Lexus in a mountain trip.

[Las Palmas]

2 hours ago, Zotto said:

Ehm, also hydrogen cars have  a battery comparable to a hybrid one.

A hydrogen combustion car is similar to a diesel, gasoline, liquid gas car with an engine and a 12V Battery. Where would the hybrid Battery be in such a car?

Lexus here say that 6L/100km and a bit more is normal here for the CT. Quite a lot CT cars here.

[Zotto]

Not really. Hydrogen is used to generate electricity by fuel cell and then alimentating electric engine. A rather small Battery is necessary as a "buffer".

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Zotto said:

Not really. Hydrogen is used to generate electricity by fuel cell and then alimentating electric engine. A rather small battery is necessary as a "buffer".

That's a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, John is talking about a hydrogen ICE vehicle.

[Las Palmas]

3 hours ago, Zotto said:

Not really. Hydrogen is used to generate electricity by fuel cell and then alimentating electric engine. A rather small battery is necessary as a "buffer".

Where is the Battery buffer? Hybrid like Battery.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2021/05/28/toyota-races-worlds-first-hydrogen-race-car-to-promote-alternative-to-electric-cars/

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/36074055.html

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/toyota-debuts-hydrogen-fuelled-internal-combustion-race-engine/

 

[Las Palmas]

I do not know how many with a beautiful 6 or 8 cylinder engine would like to convert their car to a "non-polluting" car, that does not have the power train (a big heavy battery) that in some years will no longer have more than half its power left.

It is possible to convert a combustion engine so it can run on liquid natural gas and the companies that do this, will have an advantage learning how to convert a diesel or gasoline engine so it can run on hydrogen.

The reason for me to mention non-polluting in "----" is that for the time being hydrogen is not made without pollution, but if the demand is there it is possible to make hydrogen without pollution. It just need the political will no longer to be lobbied by the EV companies.

[Zotto]

The use of hydrogen in  thermal engine is obsolete, here a Toyota Mirai:

 

[NemesisUK]

Not so sure there Luigi, from an article  Feb this year..

https://hydrogen-central.com/hycap-hydrogen-combustion-engines/

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/toyota/357389/toyota-and-yamaha-are-working-hydrogen-powered-v8-engine

 

[Las Palmas]

The difference between LNG and Hydrogen modifications to an already existing combustion engine is not something that need to be expensive. The expensive part is the tank and fuel line.

Interestingly the Lexus engine give more torque with hydrogen and less HP. More HP in an engine makes it need run with higher revolution and more wear to the engine if the extra HP are wanted to be used. More torque mean more power with less revolutions of the engine meaning less wear. More or less difference between diesel and gasoline.

Mirai combustion engined cars were not practical as filling stations are few around the world. No sale - no profit making them. If suddenly no gasoline - who would want a car running on gasoline?

Hydrogen is the way to go. Just need it to be made environmentally OK.

Yes, I care about the world we leave for our children.

[steve2006]

22 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

A hydrogen combustion car is similar to a diesel, gasoline, liquid gas car with an engine and a 12V battery. Where would the hybrid battery be in such a car?

Lexus here say that 6L/100km and a bit more is normal here for the CT. Quite a lot CT cars here.

Been here for 3 weeks now and not seen one Lexus, are they all up north of the island?

Bit wet today too 😀

[Las Palmas]

20 minutes ago, steve2006 said:

Been here for 3 weeks now and not seen one Lexus, are they all up north of the island?

Bit wet today too 😀

When we came here 17 years ago it did rain 0.1mm only 10 - 20 days a year. Lately we need to use the tumble dryer very often. Climate change is not existing. Fools believe that. As long as temperature is OK a bit of rain is OK. Most tourists see only the dry southern parts of the island. Northern side of the mountains where the wind from the sea leave humidity it is much greener, and for me beautiful. The parts I marked a bit green are great for walking and mountain biking.

Down where you are Steve all cars are the rented ones and Lexus is too expensive to rent cheap. We see many daily. Most 2005 and newer IS diesels, but many CT and now and then one of these super expensive big cars that are hard to find parking place to.

Cruise ships are common again.