Major Problem With The Vvti Unit And Coupling

[jpjsavage]

My '98 LS400 has done around 170k miles. Since I've owned it, nothing major has gone wrong until this week.

The engine started making a very weird knocking noise that increased in speed as the revs rose. I took it to my mechanic who has a lot of experience with Toyata engines. His analysis is that the VVTI unit on the left bank of the engine is damaged. The viscous coupling which is bolted to the side of this unit (with four bolts) has become detached. Three of the bolts are missing are there is a hole in the aluminium casing of the unit! The sprocket rim that is also attached to this unit and which keeps the cam belt in place has also been damaged and now needs replacing. Clearly, something major has happened inside the VVTI unit itself that has caused this damage. He is not sure what this might be, yet.

I'm wondering if anyone has heard of anything similar happening? A new VVTI section including sprocket and coupling is around £400 from Toyota. However, there might be further damage in the engine as yet undiagnosed.

Any advice on this would be welcome. My description might be a little vague but I'm not a mechanic and I was trying to write down all the salient points as he described the situation on the phone to me this morning.

Would a second hand VVTI unit be a possibility?

[Ruud]

Wow, I've never heard of that happening to anyone before.

I would think a 2nd hand unit will be fine as hardly anything ever goes wrong with these engines.

Very curious to know what has caused this....

[ambermarine]

As the car as done 170k there is a liklehood that other wear and tear is present in this bank of the engine which may have contributed to the demise of the vvti unit.

Without a total stripping down of the bank which means a top end strip of the engine it is impossible to say what damage as occured.

If you are going to keep the car I would opt for a replacement engine with the added benefit of lower mileage replacement. say from a write off.

The engine should be available for around £1k bearing in mind that the work on your old one will cost that at least.

[Malc]

Or just buy the cheapest Mk4 around that's sweet running ................. and the rest of it might be of some use too !

Malc

[Bluesman]

Sorry to hear that JPJ. What bad luck. Hopefully once you get down to pulling bits off it wont be as bad as first thought. Fingers crossed. Mike

[cruisermark]

given the fact that these cars are really cheap to buy - I would just buy another and get it LPG,d

[jpjsavage]

Options seem to be repair this one, replace the engine or scrap it and get another one.

I'm worried there might be further damage and for a few extra £ my mechanic will look strip the top end of the engine to see what's going on. I guess that VVTI unit might have just failed due to age; or something might have caused it to go bang. I'm just not sure at the moment.

[jpjsavage]

Sorry to hear that JPJ. What bad luck. Hopefully once you get down to pulling bits off it wont be as bad as first thought. Fingers crossed. Mike

Thanks Mike. I'll get it sorted one way or the other.

[jpjsavage]

As the car as done 170k there is a liklehood that other wear and tear is present in this bank of the engine which may have contributed to the demise of the vvti unit.

Without a total stripping down of the bank which means a top end strip of the engine it is impossible to say what damage as occured.

If you are going to keep the car I would opt for a replacement engine with the added benefit of lower mileage replacement. say from a write off.

The engine should be available for around £1k bearing in mind that the work on your old one will cost that at least.

The likelihood of other parts being faulty or perhaps near the point of degrading is what is worrying me. A new engine might not be a bad shout given that the rest of the car is in good nick.

[PEPE]

Very sorry to hear about this JPJ. I would go for a replacement engine. Good luck!

[Rupert Dubreaux]

Sorry to hear about your woe JPJ . I have to agree with Malc and Mark about a replacement ,a whole car would probably be cheaper than just an engine ,plus you would have a load of other spare parts .

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do .

[jpjsavage]

I've had what I think is a good offer for a whole replacement engine from a lower mileage car. I'm just waiting on what the labour costs would be for swapping them around, fitting the lpg system to the new engine, etc. Will update you all tomorrow.

[Angel123]

I really hope you get it all sorted. Your car is in very good hands. Tom

[Titch LS]

JPJ, I don't think you would need a new engine. Sounds like the 4 LH camshaft pulley bolts have not been torqued up properly at some stage in the cars life and the last of the three to come loose has done the damage. If the camshaft seals have been replaced by a previous owner this could be the reason for the loose camshaft bolts coming adrift and damaging the casing etc. Also, the only viscous coupling that I know of is on the fan clutch. That has 4 bolts as well. Is this what the mechanic is referring to? Lexus factory tightened bolts don't just 'come undone'. If it was me I'd just have the damaged parts replaced rather than all the bother of getting another engine.

[jpjsavage]

I think the cost of getting another engine installed is going to be prohibitive. I'm being told it is around a 3 day job, what with the lpg system to deal with, etc. I think the total cost of getting the VVTI unit fixed plus a new cam belt etc all fitted will be around £650 which seems reasonable. (That includes the cost of a new VVTI unit which I've sourced for £150 from a car being broken (which had around 86k miles on it).

[ambermarine]

I was not aware the engine was LPG and of course that adds another dimension to the cost regardless of wether the replacement was LPG I just hope that replacing the said parts does the repair and have no intention of increasing your anxiety by suggesting otherwise.

[jpjsavage]

As far as I understand it, the LPG system could be fitted around the new engine. But it just adds time and expense to the job as I can't do this myself. Further complications are that my mechanic is selling his twin turbo Toyota Supra at a very reasonable price and I'm sorely tempted. It was one of those dream cars for me in the mid 90s! Need the weekend to consider the options.

[Bluesman]

My friend had a beauty of those one women owners complete Toyota S History, it was a beautiful car and then some little scum bag nicked it after breaking into the house to get the keys and wrote it off, Sadly the little scroat didn't have a single scratch. Mike

[steve2006]

This problem would appear not to be a one off failure!

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/83485-bad-news-from-lexus-after-car-broke-down/

[Malc]

and it's just the vvti engine ?

Malc

[steve2006]

and it's just the vvti engine ?

Malc

Apparently so.I seem to remember but can't find a similar case a few years ago when the actuator had detached from the cam pulley because the fixing bolts had come loose and eventually fell out.

Pretty sure that happened after camshaft oil seal replacement, there must be a factory proceedure rgarding torque of the bolts and maybe thread lock type.

[lexusdaduk]

Hope you get the LS sorted, or Pic's of the super.

[Titch LS]

It seems from what people are saying that this kind of failure (though very rare) apparently occurs after sloppy servicing procedures? Not very confidence inspiring is it, with so much at stake. If procedures aren't followed precisely i.e. bolts torqued up correctly, it can prove to be very expensive later on down the road. I'd like to think that I could trust my ex-Lexus trained mechanic whenever my car goes in for jobs, but you never know.

[jpjsavage]

Sadly, I think I am going to have to sell this for spares or repair. The Toyota Supra would have been nice but sensible head is overruling the heart at the moment. I also need to consider getting a smaller manual car for two of my kids to learn in. I'm not wanting to get into three car ownership again and my wife wants to keep her people carrier.

So, what could I reasonable expect to get for this LS? It has a multi point PRINS LPG system fitted around 3 years ago, two spare wheels and the air conditioning bearing is on the way out (but I sourced a replacement which is not yet fitted). To the best of my knowledge, the vvti unit is faulty and the sprocket has become detached. It will be reattached and the car could probably be driven a short distance but I wouldn't recommend it. It is a 1998 model with around 170k miles.

Would eBay be the best bet or is anyone on here interested in it? I am a gold member and could put an ad up in the classified section later this week.

[Bluesman]

Sadly, I think I am going to have to sell this for spares or repair. The Toyota Supra would have been nice but sensible head is overruling the heart at the moment. I also need to consider getting a smaller manual car for two of my kids to learn in. I'm not wanting to get into three car ownership again and my wife wants to keep her people carrier.

So, what could I reasonable expect to get for this LS? It has a multi point PRINS LPG system fitted around 3 years ago, two spare wheels and the air conditioning bearing is on the way out (but I sourced a replacement which is not yet fitted). To the best of my knowledge, the vvti unit is faulty and the sprocket has become detached. It will be reattached and the car could probably be driven a short distance but I wouldn't recommend it. It is a 1998 model with around 170k miles.

Would ebay be the best bet or is anyone on here interested in it? I am a gold member and could put an ad up in the classified section later this week.

eBay would be a good bet, you see people selling them for spares etc and they do get surprising money for them.

Failing that set a price you think is fair and advertise it on here. Sad to lose you from owning an LS Mike