Shockingly Bad Car Dealer Attitude. I Mean Really Bad.

Chris CPT · March 30, 2014

Post removed due to more hassle than wanted or needed. Life's too short for that. Thanks for the support to those that posted. :)

BarneyTT · March 30, 2014

Chris, a nasty experience indeed but he did you one hell of a favor, like you said it was better to find out before parting with your hard earned rather than after, no wonder he can't sell it if he treats every potential buyer with that sort of attitude.

Keep your chin up, you'll find a nice LS with hopefully, a more professional seller, I'm sure.

Chris CPT · March 30, 2014

Chris, a nasty experience indeed but he did you one hell of a favor, like you said it was better to find out before parting with your hard earned rather than after, no wonder he can't sell it if he treats every potential buyer with that sort of attitude.

Keep your chin up, you'll find a nice LS with hopefully, a more professional seller, I'm sure.

Thanks Barney. It is hard-earned as well, and I should be able to ask more than just 2 or 3 questions about a car. Even if it's not much money to them in profit, they shouldn't treat people that way.

The-Acre · March 30, 2014

So when are you travelling the 140 miles to see it then?!...........

As has been said, he's done you a favour, and thankfully he's not typical of most dealers. Some may be dodgy, but at least most are polite dodgy!

BarneyTT · March 31, 2014

Chris, a nasty experience indeed but he did you one hell of a favor, like you said it was better to find out before parting with your hard earned rather than after, no wonder he can't sell it if he treats every potential buyer with that sort of attitude.

Keep your chin up, you'll find a nice LS with hopefully, a more professional seller, I'm sure.

Thanks Barney. It is hard-earned as well, and I should be able to ask more than just 2 or 3 questions about a car. Even if it's not much money to them in profit, they shouldn't treat people that way.

If I ring a seller regardless if it's trade or private, the first thing that makes me walk away is if they can't be bothered to talk to you about the car, in all probability they are not the best sort of people to spend money with in my opinion. Some of these traders seem to think you are just going to turn up and put the cash in their hand. Any decent seller would afford you their time and hopefully make you feel they are the sort of person you would wish do business with.

SteveAvery · June 9, 2015

I've just seen this. I wonder if you were talking about Lexus Southend. I've just had a very irritating experience with them, as a result of which they have kept £83.50 of my money.

AmbroseJohn · June 9, 2015

I bought a GS last month from a dealer on Owen Street, Warrington. He said the car had under gone a 125 point inspection by an independent inspector.

I emailed him to ask if he thought retailing car with worn out discs and pads was acceptable and maybe he should sack his inspector. He never replied.

I'm gradually working towards the car I thought I'd bought in the first place but even though I'm doing the work myself, there's enough fault to be costing about £1000.

I'd thought of going to Trading Standards but to be honest I can't really be bothered.

SteveAvery · June 10, 2015

Was it a Lexus dealer in Warrington?

AmbroseJohn · June 10, 2015

Was it a Lexus dealer in Warrington?

No, it was a trader who only deals in high end vehicles, Merc, BMW etc. Cheaper than main dealer but not cheap.

SteveAvery · June 10, 2015

There's such a high-end dealer near me (QCC in Essex), but they are thoroughly professional. You should name and shame your dealer, if he deserves it. Then, perhaps, dealers might behave better.

dave1 · June 28, 2015

I bought a GS last month from a dealer on Owen Street, Warrington. He said the car had under gone a 125 point inspection by an independent inspector.

I emailed him to ask if he thought retailing car with worn out discs and pads was acceptable and maybe he should sack his inspector. He never replied.

I'm gradually working towards the car I thought I'd bought in the first place but even though I'm doing the work myself, there's enough fault to be costing about £1000.

I'd thought of going to Trading Standards but to be honest I can't really be bothered.

You really should have pushed the issue. He was liable under Sale of Goods Act. He would have to PROVE that they were fine when you purchased the car. You are also entitled to see the 125 point report. You may find other problems come to light which are covered for 6 months. The trouble is that if he is a bit of a rogue trader then the more people take action the sooner he is out of business or changes his ways. If you are doing the work yourself then it must be an awful lot of issues to cost £1000.

AmbroseJohn · June 28, 2015

I've emailed him again today because having attempted to replace the rear discs and pads today, I find the rear calipers are seized solid.

I'm hoping to finish up with a decent car but I hadn't envisaged this amount of work on what was a fair priced car, ie not cheap.

SteveAvery · June 29, 2015

Threaten to name and shame. It often works. If it doesn't, do it.

dave1 · June 29, 2015

I've emailed him again today because having attempted to replace the rear discs and pads today, I find the rear calipers are seized solid.

I'm hoping to finish up with a decent car but I hadn't envisaged this amount of work on what was a fair priced car, ie not cheap.

Trouble is that by attempting the repairs yourself you have probably compromised your rights under Sale of Goods Act. Hope things work out ok though.

AmbroseJohn · June 29, 2015

Got an answer to my email this morning.

Hi John

I just read your email regarding the Lexus YX08 ***.

I'm sorry to hear you feel this way.

I would just like to clear up a couple of points that you have made.

If an MOT has any advisory notices, then that is exactly what they are and they DO NOT need to be replaced at that moment in time and You were fully aware of these when you bought the vehicle.

If the brake calipers were seized on at the point of sale, then this would have been picked up before hand and put right before the car was sold.

Brake calipers can seize at anytime. They are consumable items, which are not covered.

Lastly if you would like me to provide you with a copy of the mechanical report (which was carried out by an independent party) then I am more than happy to do so.

Regards

Neil
Watts

Select Motor Trading Ltd

Tel : 07882 003 837

Email: selectmotortrading@yahoo.com

Website: www.selectmotortradingltd.co.uk

Would a reputable dealer not fix the advisories before sale? I'm sure he said they'd been sorted but I have no proof.

dave1 · June 29, 2015

Brake calipers were probably seized when you purchased the car and might well not have shown up if not inspected. I am amazed that advisories were not rectified. It might be worth contacting Trading Standards for advice as the dealer may be known to them via other complaints. I assume you have covered very little mileage since purchase.

AmbroseJohn · June 29, 2015

I managed to free the slide pin by drilling a small hole in the blind side of the casting and filling it up with penetrating fluid. It now slides quite nicely. I can now drill and tap the hole 6mm and fit a grease nipple.

Unfortunately I destroyed the rubber gaiter during the procedure. They're listed by several US suppliers but does anyone know of a UK suppler.

AmbroseJohn · June 29, 2015

Found some @ £16 per side. :(

Ordered 2 complete set from US £9.50 delivered. Hopefully I will have a spare set when I've finished.

CustomIce · June 30, 2015

Calipers are a consumable item, are they? Pads, discs, tyres, plugs and filters yes I can understand that. Akin to suggesting the engine block or head are consumable items.

There are number of such dealers around, I tend to take an inspection light and overalls with me when looking at cars!

AmbroseJohn · June 30, 2015

Calipers are a consumable item, are they? Pads, discs, tyres, plugs and filters yes I can understand that. Akin to suggesting the engine block or head are consumable items.

There are number of such dealers around, I tend to take an inspection light and overalls with me when looking at cars!

Problem is you can only see if the callipers are seized until you get them off to replace the discs. The dealer should have replaced the discs as advised on the MOT and subsequently replaced the callipers too.

I've written to trading standards this morning outlining the whole affair.

Warrington Trading Standards 30

New Town House,

Buttermarket Street,

Warrington, WA1 2NH

Dear Sirs

I don’t know if you can help me but I’m having a dispute with a motor trader in Warrington.

On 24^thof April this year I purchased a Lexus GS450h YX08 *** from Select Motor Trading Ltd on Owen Street. The purchase price was £9977. The advert said full Lexus Service History and mentioned 12 months RAC parts and labour warranty (apparently this is ‘available’ but wasn’t offered anyway) The MOT was till December and included some advisories, brake disc and pads being the main item. Neil Watts (the owner) assured me that an independent Inspection had been completed and all issues had been addressed.

He offered £750 for my BMW but I wanted £1000. He reduced the price of the Lexus by £200, so in effect he gave me £950 for the BMW, so I accepted and paid £100 deposit, as it seemed pretty much the same as I wanted.

I returned on 27^th of April and paid the balance of £8927. As we walked to the car Mr Watts handed me a single key, which I queried as cars always have two. He replied by saying “this is what we call in the trade, a one key donkey”. I was not amused but thought, oh well you live and learn. I learnt later, the only option to obtain a spare key is from the main Lexus dealer at a cost of £315 +vat including programming.

On returning home I started looking at the user manuals etc. Looking at the service book, I noticed to my horror that the last stamp in the book was at 70392 miles on 18/02/14. So the car was now due for a major service and over due by two months, as services become due at 10,000 miles or 12 months. I informed Mr Watts of this and he insisted the car was not due for a service and certainly not a major one. He did however offer to change the oil and filter. I pointed out this would not maintain to cars main dealer service history as advertised and things fell silent for a couple of days. Meanwhile (feeling ripped off) I booked the car in at my local Toyota dealer for the service. The cost was £295. During the service it was noted the discs and pads required changing and the fronts in particular were desperate.

As an engineer I am capable of doing these repairs myself and I have sourced the parts at a cost of about £250 (I have receipts). I emailed Mr Watts with the costs I had incurred and he agreed to pay for the £295 service (which he did)

I replaced the front discs and pads right away and took photographs of the old pads, which were completely worn out and dangerous. I emailed the photo to Mr Watts and asked if he thought retailing a car in this condition was acceptable. He never replied.

Due to illness I haven’t had chance to do the rear brakes until last Sunday. Taking off the right side calliper in order to remove the pads it became apparent that the slide pins are totally seized. Without going into great detail, these pins must be free to move in order for the brakes to function correctly. They are moving parts and not just retaining pins. BTW the pad retaining pins were also rusted in but I managed to get them out. When I removed the disc I also discovered that the parking/emergency brake shoes are also totally worn out.

I have asked on the Lexus Owners Club forum about the calliper problem and it seems there is no other option but to replace the callipers at a cost of £246 + vat per side. So that’s another £590. Again I have emailed Mr Watts and he claims brake callipers are consumables and not his responsibility. Tyres, brake pad and to a certain extent brake disc are consumables but I never heard anyone claim callipers were.

If the car had been serviced, as advertised, before sale, all these things would have been apparent to Mr Watts but I don’t suppose he’d have done anything about it because he was aware of the brake situation and did nothing.

Do you think Select Motor Trading Ltd should be paying for these repairs or at least making a sizable contribution towards the cost. I’m sure Mr Watts thinks I’m trying it on but the truth of the matter is if he were to give me back £9977, he could have it back. I’d write off all the money I’ve spent on it and he’d be getting back a considerably better car than the one he sold to me because to be quite honest I’ve lost confidence in it. I’m frightened to going out in it, for fear of something else going wrong.

Anyway it would now appear my car is “off the road” which is something I haven’t had to say for over forty years and certainly not something you would think of saying about a car that has just cost nearly £10,000.

Please let me know what you think and whether it’s worth pursuing. I can let you have all the emails between Select Motor Trading and myself, receipts for costs incurred so far, photographs of dangerous parts and exact costs of parts still required.

Kind

Regards

AmbroseJohn · July 2, 2015

One calliper modified and hopefully better than new. Just waiting for the rubber boots to arrive from the USA.

CustomIce · July 2, 2015

Nice work.

Any plans to clean the surface rust up and paint them with a discrete high temp paint to preserve them, seeing as they are consumable.....

AmbroseJohn · July 2, 2015

Nice work.

Any plans to clean the surface rust up and paint them with a discrete high temp paint to preserve them, seeing as they are consumable.....

Still awaiting reply from Trading Standards (though no holding my breath) I believe I'm owed new ones from the dealer.

CustomIce · July 2, 2015

Fair enough John.

Good luck with it, i'm looking forward to hearing how this pans out.

AmbroseJohn · July 2, 2015

Got an email from Trading Standards, they suggest talking to The Citizens Advice. CAB suggest writing to the trader. Well I never thought of doing that. Do these people think we're stupid. If I hadn't already exhausted that policy, I wouldn't have been trying to escalate the situation.

Emailed Trading Standards again. :(