Mark Levinson Upgrade

Rabbers · August 18, 2016

Waiting for my car at the dealer earlier today, I asked to try the 8-speaker audio system in another 300h, not having heard one before and being

intrigued by some opinions that it performs almost as well as the ML. After playing an iPod via BT and then (better) via USB in a quiet showroom,

I quickly concluded that the system might well be good enough to satisfy customers who have not heard the ML but is so inferior in terms of

detail, clarity (especially in bass-heavy music), range and power as to make the comparison almost unfair, so much so that the thought crossed

my mind that any opinion to the contrary might be based on hearing the ML with the Surround feature turned off - which, of course, some people

may prefer, though I would imagine these to be few. My own habit is to always leave it on except in the occasional case of vocal music when I

want the voice(s) "to the front", and, generally, it seems to me that the main merit of the Surround - and therefore the ML system - is to exploit

the greater number and quality of the speakers to yield highly realistic and undistorted sound (even to ghetto-blaster levels if so desired - though

most of us thankfully do not). Therefore, unless road and traffic and other unwelcome but unavoidable noises justify the belief that any or all

premium car audio systems are a waste of money, the ML is worth a premium price. And while I can understand and even admire the desire

of some particularly refined and demanding audiophiles to seek out customized high-end upgrades to the 8-speaker system from third-party

suppliers, I personally don't see the need when Lexus has already accommodated them with the ML.

Linas.P · August 19, 2016

17 hours ago, Rabbers said:

Being intrigued by some opinions that it performs almost as well as the ML

I have not tried standard system on 3rd gen, but one of my loan cars was with ML and I can say nothing extraordinary about it. I have not seen much difference over standard system in my current 2nd Gen. Equally, I previously had 2nd gen with both with and without ML and again I found no reasoning for extra ML price.

That said, obviously ML is better system, more clarity, but only if you have good quality source. As well ML is more suitable for what I consider classic or "old school" music, with a lot of vocal and instrumental. As I am listening to dance/techno I see very little difference between the systems and I disagree with the point that ML is better for bass-heavy music (I believe it is opposite), clarity yes, bass .. no. Finally, going back to source - if you playing mp3 ripper from youtube (something I do as I will never pay for music) you will hear no difference on ML, compared with standard system.

To conclude, ML is better than standard, but not in different universe. If you buying car and ML is there for no extra price - great, but I would never pay extra to get one. Finally, if you don't have best quality source you will not benefit from having ML.

marrat · August 19, 2016

Obviously when listening to low quality rips and FM radio, ML won't make much difference. That's like comparing a proper 4K OLED TV with a 1080p LCD TV using SD video material. I used Spotify over Bluetooth with the extreme preset to test a ML car and a premium nav car (8 speakers over the standard 6 speakers), there's a clear difference when compared directly.

Linas.P · August 19, 2016

6 speakers?! I have missed this, obviously it is in no way comparable with ML then. There are 13 speakers in 2nd gen standard audio and ML has 14 if I am not mistaken, which is one extra speaker in center of the dash and some relocation, obviously better quality sub and components, as well better amp. That explains why it is so little difference between 2nd gen non-ML and ML, as well as 3rd Gen ML. It must be some cuts in 3rd gen if it only has 6 speakers - sounds Fiat panda equivalent.

So to conclude:

2nd. Gen ML 14 speakers, non-ML 13.

3rd. Gen ML 15, Premium 8, Standard 6

I am sorry for giving some misleading advise on 3rd gen only ever trying ML version, because I was spoiled by 2nd gen generous non-ML option and miss informed.

ganzoom · August 19, 2016

Currently sitting in our ML equipped IS300H waiting for my wife to finish shopping. I have to say am more than happy with the acoustic performance. The fact the combustion engine doesn't have to run to keep the ICE powered up for long periods is a real advantage over other combustion cars.

With a 4 month old baby in the house the car is about the only place I can just chill and enjoy some tunes at the moment. The base performance could be better but that I think is more due to limit cabin space. Not sure how it compares to the standard audio, but its far better than the speakers in my Leaf :).

royoftherovers · August 19, 2016

I do wonder whether people realise that any audio system is only as good as one`s physical ability to pick up the frequencies that are within recordings and the acoustic conditions which prevail in the environment in which one is listening.

What is deemed to be perfect by one is often not perceived a such by others. Perfect music reproduction lies within the hearing abilities of the recipient., I feel.

Linas.P · August 19, 2016

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

I do wonder whether people realise that any audio system is only as good as one`s physical ability to pick up the frequencies that are within recordings and the acoustic conditions which prevail in the environment in which one is listening.

What is deemed to be perfect by one is often not perceived a such by others. Perfect music reproduction lies within the hearing abilities of the recipient., I feel.

This was quite common topic when talking about mp3 compression and lossless formats, much research was done and conclusion is that even the audiophiles cannot hear difference on their high-end systems. So it is more in your head...

Again I am certain that there is huge difference on 3rd Gen IS, there is no way 6 speakers can provide sound and clarity of 15, but I am pretty certain such difference is minimal on 2nd gen (I have owned both ML and non-ML). ML has more clarity, but only on good source and certain genres of music and I can hear the difference as well. Yet I do not listen to those certain genres and the music I am listening and the source quality I am using makes no sense to upgrade to ML ( but that only applies to 2nd gen and here we are talking about 3rd gen).

PaulWhitt20 · August 19, 2016

Does the mk3 IS have bamboo speakers like the CT ?

http://blog.lexus.co.uk/lexus-and-the-sound-of-bamboo/

royoftherovers · August 19, 2016

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

This was quite common topic when talking about mp3 compression and lossless formats, much research was done and conclusion is that even the audiophiles cannot hear difference on their high-end systems. So it is more in your head...

Again I am certain that there is huge difference on 3rd Gen IS, there is no way 6 speakers can provide sound and clarity of 15, but I am pretty certain such difference is minimal on 2nd gen (I have owned both ML and non-ML). ML has more clarity, but only on good source and certain genres of music and I can hear the difference as well. Yet I do not listen to those certain genres and the music I am listening and the source quality I am using makes no sense to upgrade to ML ( but that only applies to 2nd gen and here we are talking about 3rd gen).

Well expressed Linas.

Regards

John

Haken8 · August 19, 2016

Hi All

Read all above with interest. Rayans are you able to say what 'fine tuning' you did to your ML.

rayaans · August 20, 2016

On 19/08/2016 at 5:49 PM, Haken8 said:

Hi All

Read all above with interest. Rayans are you able to say what 'fine tuning' you did to your ML.

I just messed with the equaliser. TBH the ML and 8 speaker system with subwoofer don't sound that much different with equaliser set properly. Certainly not enough to warrant the cost. TBH It sounds pretty much the same as ML in my RX

Rabbers · August 21, 2016

Having always had ML as integral to top-spec IS models, I never previously gave much thought to whether it represented value for money

in respect of the system or systems in lower-spec packages. But now, because it will be offered only as an optional with a current list-price

of €1250 were I to replace my present 300h with another (as one day I probably shall), I thought it would be useful to try out the 8-speaker

system I would otherwise be getting. And, on the basis of a same-car, same-device, same-music and same-environment comparison, I

concluded, quite emphatically, that I would still go for the ML. This is not to say that I would be overjoyed to pay the high asking price.

It means, rather, that I am satisfied that the ML justifies a premium figure. Whether or not this is excessive is a question for individual

customers, and raises the broader issue of why anyone should want premium car audio in the first place, especially when the standard

system on offer is in itself an acceptably good one.

My own justification for wanting premium car audio in any car I might ever own rests on the availability of 10,000+ titles imported to iPod

from a library of 950+ CDs collected over many years and which itself represented a not insignificant investment. The music ranges from

early Blues and Rock (mostly remasterings of original recordings of primitive quality) through modern Jazz and "quality" Pop (mostly

excellently recorded) to various types of Classical (almost all of it superbly recorded). And, if the selection were not heavily weighted

towards the latter areas, I would reckon that just about every car stereo I have ever heard would be good enough. As far as my own

repertoire of tastes and desires is concerned, the selection is pretty much definitive, meaning that I very rarely add to it (typically by

iTunes or amazon download when I do) and then only if tempted by rave reviews of new performances of what I usually already have.

Therefore, in effect, I view my iPod purely as a means of carrying what is almost my entire music collection from my house to my car

and back again. And while I acknowledge that this amount of content is ridiculously large for anybody's needs in a car, I nevertheless

find its availability "on tap" to be strangely comforting (especially when supplemented by a good number of automatic podcast downloads

which, fortunately, are self-limiting in number since my discovery of the delete-after-listening setting) and, as such, deserving of as

good a system as I can afford in order to play it.

Haken8 · August 21, 2016

Hi All

Strange thing happened this morning and the more so after this conversation. I had not touched the ML tuning when as I was driving along the sound suddenly changed. For the better! The stereo image just suddenly snapped into place and I could hear the placements of vocals/instruments. This I might add was not a small change. I do not know what went on but I had played with the equalizer/controls when I first aquired the vehicle and no matter what I did it wasnt where I wanted it and expected it. Now its there in spades.

Makes me wonder what has happened? And I would add I did not go over any bumps/jolts etc. Strange.

Rabbers · August 21, 2016

9 hours ago, Haken8 said:

Makes me wonder what has happened? And I would add I did not go over any bumps/jolts etc. Strange.

Tom: What audio source were you using? If it was a cable-connected iPod or Iphone, the event could have been caused by something as simple as a defective or loose cable.

Haken8 · August 21, 2016

Hi Rabbers

It was on the FM Radio so it could not have been a loose cable. I tried it then on CD/USB stick with same improved sound.

RichyRich · August 31, 2016

I don't have the ML system but have the Premium Nav which believe comes with the 8 speaker system. Compared to the 2nd Gen IS non ML it is inferia from my experience. The FM radio is muffled. Would certainly be interested in hearing the ML just a shame will need to wait 3 years at least till I change my IS300. DAB is a little clearer but when it looses signal that is far worse an experience! any tips on improving the audio quality from the settings is appreciated?

rayaans · August 31, 2016

11 hours ago, RichyRich said:

I don't have the ML system but have the Premium Nav which believe comes with the 8 speaker system. Compared to the 2nd Gen IS non ML it is inferia from my experience. The FM radio is muffled. Would certainly be interested in hearing the ML just a shame will need to wait 3 years at least till I change my IS300. DAB is a little clearer but when it looses signal that is far worse an experience! any tips on improving the audio quality from the settings is appreciated?

FM radio is rubbish anyway - its got worse over the years anyway

Play around with the equaliser, remember you have to do this separately for each source!

Haken8 · September 7, 2016

Hi All

Note what Rayaans says regarding the fact that every source must be individually tuned. I now realize that was the cause of all my problems. I tuned in the USB port thinking that would do every input (wrongly).Then could not understand why everything else didnt sound as good. I have now individually tuned evry input and all is now good.