Water Ingress Rx400H 2006

[paul marsden]

Nev72, not sure that my problem was with the inverter recall work. If the cause of your problem was water ingress which caused the hybrid issues then there would seem to be some similarity.

I don't know how the recall work is undertaken but I wouldn't imagine it would be responsible for compromising the integrity of the bodywork - could be wrong though as not a mechanic.

To give credit were it is due, I would be absolutely clueless as to this problem without Spurtys dedication to tracing the problem and posting it.

Keep us informed.

[NEV72]

From what I can gather Paul is that the inverters were meant to changed due to an internal fault, causing the inverter to overheat and damage the modules transisters, thanks to Spurty posting this info up on another thread.

Lexus Poole did the upgrade from what Lexus Exeter tell me, I'm sure that the inverter didn't all of a sudden become faulty simply by the fact it hadn't been driven for 5 days, now I'm not 100% sure where the inverter is situated but by parking my car on my driveway on an incline, with the front facing downwards, in the wettest spell in years, we really had it bad here, somehow the inverter has become damaged due to water getting into the unit, and again not 100% sure but would have thought it should be sealed from outside elements, now I'm in the way of thinking that when Lexus Poole undertook this replacement, they haven't re-sealed the unit up properly, doubled up with the fact that there may be a leak getting in from the rear somehow, I don't know I didn't check, but is plausible, and because the car was on an incline and not flat, allowed even the smallest amount of water getting in to build up somehow over a few days and get into the inverter. That's my guessing anyway. I just cant see why its taking so long, surely with emails this can be sorted out in a day, two at the most. Lexus Exeter say they should hear back from Poole tomorrow, that way hopefully the job should be done by Saturday tea-time at the latest, seeing as it apparently takes just 4 hours to do.

[Duncan Roberts]

Nor do we yet have one it seems!

[NEV72]

I'm not a big fan of emoticons Dunc, but if I was I'd have one with it scratching it's head mate.

[NEV72]

Well it's now been a week, and the car has been sat in Lexus Exeter, received a phone call from Lexus explaining that neither Lexus Exeter nor Lexus Poole, are admitting any liability for the damaged inverter, and that I am to get in touch with my insurers, I explained that due to the fact that I have to pay an excess of £500, for a kick off, and that's presuming my insurers would pay out for a replacement inverter, I wasn't a happy chappy. I did however suggest to them that they go and actually try and start the car, to see if by any chance the problem had rectified itself, seeing as we haven't had the deluge we had the week before, which had caused the problem in the first place

They said they would get a mechanic to go and try this and that they would get back to me, a phone call shortly later and low and behold, the car is starting fine and no 'CHECK HYBRID SYSTEM' error message showing up on the dash.

How it took a week, and a customer suggesting this, not a mechanic, I'll never know, anyway, they then go on to ask if I'm happy with this, which I replied I'd need to have a chat with the wife, as she was driving the car when everything just came to a halt, brakes, engine, power steering, and luckily for her it was at 20mph, and not 60-70mph on the bypass/motorway, the consequences of that happening are unthinkable, and also I would need a written guarantee that this would never happen again, the unit would need to be sealed within an inch of it's life, and the leak wherever it is getting in would need sealing up also, providing this was all sorted out, I personally would be ok with this, but like I told them I'd need to speak with the other half, but if I can't be guaranteed this, the car would be going back, and I'd implement the 30 day return clause. I had to go out so was unavailable to take any calls so told the wife to ring them up after a couple of hours, and speak to the salesman who dealt with the sale of the car in the first place, apparently he had no idea of the latest situation, but did advise us that we wouldn't receive a refund, and that basically we would be found another car, same specs, price etc.

Which is another thing we weren't aware of, maybe our ignorance in not reading the small print.

Now the initial sales service was great, the car itself when we took it out, was absolutely everything you'd expect from it, it seems the aftersales has fallen a little flat on it's face.

Now the predicament we are in is this, do we take back the car, on Lexus Exeter's word that it's fixed?and take a gamble on it not happening again, (on brother in laws advice that any electrical circuit board being water damaged, is actually weakened)or do we take another car from them, those are the only two options available, as I said before, there is no refunding.

[Boxbrownie]

I'd ask them to replace it with an exact like for like as in the T&Cs, now how long this will take is a BIG question and I am sure if it takes too long or they say "we can find one but its more money and you will have to pay the extra" (I'll take bets on that BTW) I am damn sure the OFT and the small claims court Judge will see it completely differently from their point of view.

And yes, I did know they 30 day policy did not include a money back warranty.........just a "we've got your money, now what car can we sell you?"

Sorry to hear this is not being sorted as it should be, a ridiculous situation for a main dealer and prestige car manufacturer to expect you to accept.

One thing I wouldn't want is the POS they are trying to fob you off with now!

[NEV72]

Main problem also is that missus has a company Astra, so we declined a courtesy car, obviously thinking it would be a couple of days max, I have a 50th birthday do to go to on Saturday, up near Melton Mowbray, so it'll be a mission me squeezed into an Astra,all the way from Devon, plus all my mates are expecting me to turn up in my soooper doooper new Hybrid I've been raving on about, (can you be compensated for loss of face? )and will give me no end of grief, plus wife is changing job soon and is expected to hand back said Astra, to her company.

[Boxbrownie]

Main problem also is that missus has a company Astra, so we declined a courtesy car, obviously thinking it would be a couple of days max, I have a 50th birthday do to go to on Saturday, up near Melton Mowbray, so it'll be a mission me squeezed into an Astra,all the way from Devon, plus all my mates are expecting me to turn up in my soooper doooper new Hybrid I've been raving on about, (can you be compensated for loss of face? )and will give me no end of grief, plus wife is changing job soon and is expected to hand back said Astra, to her company.

So tell them you will accept thier offer of a like for like but while they are finding you one you need a loan car, sounds quite a reasonable request to me, the dealer might have other views though!

[paul marsden]

Hi Nev72,

Not sure if what you've described is progress but you seem to be edging nearer a resolution.

Did you happen to find out how the water got in?

Paul

[NEV72]

It certainly looks like we're going to have to go for like for like, don't fancy playing Russian Roulette every time it rains.

[NEV72]

No not yet Paul, I did ask them also to check the carpets to see if they were waterlogged, when the mechanic went to go and try to start it, but never said. she did however say that the inverter was under the bonnet, now is this right?

[Boxbrownie]

It certainly looks like we're going to have to go for like for like, don't fancy playing Russian Roulette every time it rains.

Totally agree, I'd feel very wary of the car after that episode.........and if it happens to the wife again, you'll never be allowed to choose another car! :D

[Boxbrownie]

No not yet Paul, I did ask them also to check the carpets to see if they were waterlogged, when the mechanic went to go and try to start it, but never said. she did however say that the inverter was under the bonnet, now is this right?

I think that could be correct, the current would be "inverted" just before the motor rather than at the Battery and have to travel along higher load cables from the Battery to the motor, thats how I see it I reckon, makes sense.

Then again.........I was wrong once.........a long time ago though.........

[NEV72]

No probs there, it'll more than likely be a new 2014 450h, she's well covered, ;-)

[Boxbrownie]

Yes under hood...........

Boosts and inverts the high voltage electricity from the HV Battery pack to 3-phase AC electricity that drives the electric motors. The inverter/converter also converts AC electricity from the electric generator and electric motors (regenerative braking) to DC that recharges the HV Battery pack.

So no AC running around under/in the vehicle........

[Boxbrownie]

Useful link for you

https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/staticcontent/en/techinfo/html/prelogin/docs/rx450hdisman.pdf

[paul marsden]

Hi Nev,

I THINK the inverter is under the bonnet, the batteries are under the rear seats and the ecu is on the drivers side behind the drivers seat. Happy to defer to an expert though.

[Boxbrownie]

Hmmm so if water got into the system............

"A ground-fault monitor continuously monitors for high voltage leakage to the metal chassis while the vehicle is running. If a malfunction is detected, the hybrid vehicle computer * will illuminate the master warning light in the instrument cluster and indicate “CHECK HYBRID SYSTEM” on the multi-information display"

[NEV72]

Well then if that's the case and it's under the bonnet, I'd say that whoever has had the unit open to either upgrade or swap componants, and not resealing it back up are at fault, and that was Lexus Poole, the car therefore being unfit for purpose due to inept workmanship. Surely to god, you can't buy a car and be unable to park it on your driveway, incline or no, and be at blame for any problems that may occur.

[paul marsden]

Hmmm so if water got into the system............

"A ground-fault monitor continuously monitors for high voltage leakage to the metal chassis while the vehicle is running. If a malfunction is detected, the hybrid vehicle computer * will illuminate the master warning light in the instrument cluster and indicate “CHECK HYBRID SYSTEM” on the multi-information display"

not wanting to appear ignorant but what does that mean in plain English :)

[NEV72]

Oh forgot btw, and this may be of benefit to you other lads with the Hybrid, now hark at this one, apparently parking on an incline can affect the gel in the batteries, seems the gel can all move to one end, now if she meant leak I don't know but move towards one end, whats that all about? leave the lead cells exposed?

[NEV72]

Hmmm so if water got into the system............

"A ground-fault monitor continuously monitors for high voltage leakage to the metal chassis while the vehicle is running. If a malfunction is detected, the hybrid vehicle computer * will illuminate the master warning light in the instrument cluster and indicate “CHECK HYBRID SYSTEM” on the multi-information display"

I get where you're coming from there Box, but doesn't help any, as now I'm thinking it may not be the inverter but a sensor shorting out due to water, but no fuse blown? daft

[Beejay]

" now hark at this one, apparently parking on an incline can affect the gel in the batteries, seems the gel can all move to one end, now if she meant leak I don't know but move towards one end, whats that all about? leave the lead cells exposed?"

Well when working in San Francisco there were quite a few Rx hybrids parked on SF’s steep slopes and I can’t imagine why the gel would migrate unless there was an air pocket [most unlikely!!!]

BJ

[NEV72]

Straight from the horses mouth that. honest injun

[Boxbrownie]

Straight from the horses mouth that. honest injun

Was that a female hybrid powertrain engineer based in Japan or the receptionist at the dealer?