Potential Manufacturing Defect

[dblacha]

I have posted this potential defect description on the "rattles" topic, but I think it's a good idea to start a new topic.

The problem is as follows:

Just a few days after I've changed my tires for winter ones, I found strange sound and intensive vibration when I'm cruising with a constant speed, about 90 kmph and when an engine is running low, on about 1200-1400 rmps. I don't know, why this effect wasn't appearing on the summer tires.

Before changing tires, I met some guy with his IS300h, and he was telling me, that car is great, but when he changed tires to winter ones, the car drives completely different, that he feels like riding on a bad made tarmac. When I meet him, I was on summer tires, so it was clear to me that he has got bad tires, but I have now different tires than he had, and I have the same vibration.

Update:

On this Saturday I was in the Lexus Service and the service mechanic heard and feels this sound and vibration from the first seconds.

Then we checked other IS 300h ("demo car") from the salon on another winter tires. Definitely,the same vibrations and sound are present, happens on the same speed and rpms.

My service center wants to check if there are any other records of this issue on Toyota.

I'll inform you about any update.

Dominik.

[Alexch1974]

Hi Dominik

This is very interesting and it would be good to see what the outcome is as I would also be concerned if I was getting the vibrations that you mention.

Ironically, I collected my car with winter tyres already fitted, so I have only experienced my vehicle with winter tyres. I have the IS300h F Sport variant and have never had the vibration at the speed and rpm that you mention (I am driving at this speed quite regularly on my commute to work). I also have adaptive variable suspension which may also make a difference and keep the vibrations out. I'll keep a much closer eye out for this now and let you know if I notice anything further.

It will be interesting to see if there is difference once I put my summer tyres back on in the spring and whether the ride improves to what I consider to be already pretty good.

A

[dblacha]

Hi Alex,

thanks for reply.

Service mechanic said that, it's like too much or no enough torque for current RPMs. It sounds, he sad, like f.e. too high gear for a given load. And that it's definitely generated somewhere in the powertrain, maybe Toyota should modify a torque map.

The fact that it wasn't felt on summer tires (at least on two cars) tells us, that you may have right: the F suspension can dump vibration well.

For me - it feels like the powertrain with its natural vibration, tends to put suspension into avresonance and maybe winter (softer) tires "helps" this process occurs.

My service wants to take a recordings of this effect (by some special microphones) and will talk to the Toyota.

[Blom1974]

I got the exact same thing om mine ! Between 1200 to 1400 rpm. Feels like running a manual at too high gear.

[Blom1974]

Btw. I also have the adaptive suspension..

[dblacha]

I got the exact same thing om mine ! Between 1200 to 1400 rpm. Feels like running a manual at too high gear.

Hi! Also on a winter tires?

I hope that it isn't overloading the engine - this would be harmful for it.

Hope it's what I'm suspecting - the powertrain - suspension resonance.

To exclude that it isn't wheel weight problem - if you are on stable speed and the effect occurs, let switch to a "manual" mode - the effect will disappears immediately (unless you shift to "6").

[dblacha]

It seems this topic is connected: http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/84613-transmission-rough-spot/

[Blom1974]

On all weather tires 18inch low profile so not reilly winter tires

[Platypus]

Thanks Dominik. Finally!!! I thought I was the only one with this problem - now I've reinforcement! I posted the problem on the IS300h forum in October and had expanded on it since, but it was all lost in the server problem in December.

I'm driving the premium (they call it 'Prestige' in Belgium). When I noticed the problem it was still warm weather and I was driving on 17" normal tyres. When cruising between 80 and 90km/h and the engine is lightly loaded, or is just pulling, there's a slight vibration/resonance, as if the car is in too high a gear.This is very irritating, especially as that's cruising speed off the motorway. When I paddle down a 'gear' to 4th it disappears altogether, only to return when the CVT automatically returns to 'D'.

I figured it seems to be a problem with the set point of the CVT, and since the CVT has electronic control it shouldn't be a problem to remove. I brought the car in to my dealer in December and went for a spin with the mechanic. Unfortunately, we couldn't get up to speed due to traffic, but the mechanic has the jist of the problem and promised to report it and get back to me. Which he didn't, obviously. However, it's due in for a service in a few weeks and Lexus has promised to keep it for the day to check it out.

I now have 16" winter tyres, and besides the fact that they are very, very noisy, I have noticed that the problem is slightly exacerbated (for what I can hear above the noise of the tyres!) which Is probably due to the extra friction of the tyres.

I think they'll pay special attention now that there's more of us. Will keep you posted.

[TED]

That's the very same problem that some of our members have reported, it occurs when cruising at 85/90 km/h, engine revving at about 1300 rpm.

One of our member told us that the same problem had been reported on Prius II.

[dblacha]

Thanks Dominik. Finally!!! I thought I was the only one with this problem - now I've reinforcement!

Thanks John, Also I'm less worried now, when I know that I'm not alone.

And I hope Toyota is listening :-)

If not, maybe it is a good idea to write an official letter from our Club?

[Platypus]

Thanks Dominik. Finally!!! I thought I was the only one with this problem - now I've reinforcement!

Thanks John, Also I'm less worried now, when I know that I'm not alone.

And I hope Toyota is listening :-)

If not, maybe it is a good idea to write an official letter from our Club?

I'll be bringing the car in for a service in about two to three weeks (need to clock up another 2,000km for the first service). I'm also bringing printouts of everyone's comments on the problem so they can't fob me off. I'll check out the Prius II Owner's Club site and bring any evidence from that too! If no joy, I suggest we send that letter.

[Silver Arrow]

Guys - could this be the engine labouring? The CVT box, in ECO mode, may be encouraging a very high "gear" (I appreciate that strictly speaking there is only one gear), and the 4 Cyl engine not having enough torque at that speed and the electric motor not really doing anything or coming into play??

Once you hit Normal or Sport the systems immediately allow the Rev's to rise or the gearing to drop just enough for it to go away?

I found that when the engine cut in, even driving around town it was noticeable. A very slight judder is felt as if the engine has started/been cranked (again I know it doesn't crank as such) - not quite as much as in the BMW hybrid. In a Prius or a CT it's much less so - in fact imperceptible.

[dblacha]

No, it isn't just only ICE's idle vibration. It's some interference and/or a resonance.

In fact, judder is slight grater than I have in my 2G Prius but it's still not disturbing.

[Platypus]

Just back from the dealer where they did the first 15,000km service. Had informed Lexus Brussels about the resonance problem and the customer support engineer remembered me from back in December when I first announced it. I also brought printouts from all of you who have posted similar issues on the forum. They kept the car in for the day and took it for a spin. I spoke to him on the phone later and he said that, though they noticed the issue, the car checked out fine on their analysis computer, and there was no known solution to the problem. They will be escalating the issue to the next Lexus level (whether it be Belgium or Europe, I don't know). When I collected the car, one of the salespersons assured me they will contact me by Friday with feedback.

So, I would suggest we wait for the verdict and if it is not reassuring we go for the letter to Lexus Europe. Furthermore, it would be interesting to hear what your own dealers are saying about the problem.

[dblacha]

Thanks John!

So we have a partially good news. Good that they are interesting in this issue, not so good, that nothing happens yet.

I have 7kkm before I visit my service for scheduled service, but maybe I'll go earlier. Just to ask what they did after my demonstration of the issue.

[Platypus]

No reply yet, though they promised to get back to me by Friday (yesterday). I'll give them a few more days and if by then there's no joy, I'll start looking for somebody in Lexus Europe that can handle the issue. My biggest concern is that the vibrations - which seem to have worsened - cause serious damage. The lip service that Lexus has given so far is highly disappointing.

[Ptitgimpy]

Mine is going to the dealer tomorrow for multimedia update and check for this vibrations.

I drove the car last week with to "Lexus Hybrid Experts" and they have heard the noise in very typical conditions. Around 1500rpm, 85-95 km/h and just enough throttle to maintain speed. As soon as you accelerate or remove the foot of the pedal, it stops.

The car is now 21 000 km and it is one of the first one delivered 07/2013.

Wait and see...

[Platypus]

Thanks Sylvain, it will be great to know if you have an immediate response; that way we know they are aware of the situation. I'll be calling by dealer on Wednesday - that means he had a week to get a status on the defect from Lexus Europe. Fingers crossed!

[Platypus]

Mine is going to the dealer tomorrow for multimedia update and check for this vibrations.

I drove the car last week with to "Lexus Hybrid Experts" and they have heard the noise in very typical conditions. Around 1500rpm, 85-95 km/h and just enough throttle to maintain speed. As soon as you accelerate or remove the foot of the pedal, it stops.

The car is now 21 000 km and it is one of the first one delivered 07/2013.

Wait and see...

Any news? I just called my dealer for an update on the defect and the answer was that they haven't received an answer to the problem. I asked how many more customers complained of the problem and I was the only one they knew of, apparently. So, if we want to have our voices heard, I think it's best we all go to the dealers and ensure the problem get due priority.

[Ptitgimpy]

No news.... Is bad news....

They have kept the car two days, nothing wrong on the car...

They have tried two other Is 300h and same result. They have called Lexus technical hotline and it says that it is a normal function noise.

[dblacha]

The problem is, that this is not only the noise. We have the strong vibration. I think, we should to write an official letter to Lexus EU.

[Platypus]

Sylvain,

Don't take that for an answer! There's no such thing as a normal noise if, Lexuses shouldn't be making noises. And what about the vibrations - are you having them too? In my case, Lexus Brussels confirmed it is a problem and they have forwarded it to Lexus Europe - I'm sure your car has the same issue as mine. I admit being a bit hard on them, but Lexus Brussels is taking it seriously, and so should your dealer. They actually said it could be regarded as a teething problem that happen with new models and are working on it - not that it is any way reassuring to me!

Dominik,

I fully agree with you that we write to Lexus EU, but would it help if your dealer first confirmed the vibrations, as mine did? I suggest we first run it by the moderator of the forum, then I would be happy to carry it further. I would then want to hear from everybody with the problem.

[Ptitgimpy]

I will pick up the car tomorrow morning and tell them what my feeling is about this.

The noise (and the vibrations) are quiet hard to reproduce for people who do not drive this car very often and mechanicians have not seen much of these in their workshop...

I agree when telling that Lexus should care about this problem. It is not worthy of a Lexus.

I will wait a few weeks to see how the car behaves with summer tyres and write a letter to Lexus EU. Maybe I would ask to drive a new one with less milage to see if the problem is as troublesome as on my car.

I will check regulary here to see if there is news or not.

Thanks Lexus guys !

[Platypus]

I left a Saab 9-3 TiD 150hp automatic for this car. The Saab was a real beauty to drive - in my opinion it beat the IS300h on anything related to performance and drive train. Just wish I could have my Saab back!