Is250 Water Pump Failure

[mraines]

Ishaq, I just left my car there so I don't know how long it took. Perhaps sort a courtesy car first before booking.

[Evophoar]

Mine failed at 42k,&160 fitted and sweet as a nut!!

[Ishaq]

Does anyone know if Blueprint is a good brand to put on as the U.S. forum says they are the same as OEM but just don't have Toyota writen on it.

Here is what I am looking at:

Blue Print: http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/291179966201?nav=SEARCH

Aisin Brand: http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/131281728423?nav=SEARCH

Thank you in advance...I need to order something ASAP as it bugs me when something is wrong...it also bugs me when it costs me £££

[johnatg]

BluePrint and Aisin are both reputable brands - Aisin are an actual parts manufacturer - I suspect BluePrint buy stuff from all sorts of manufacturers (as do all Japanese car manufacturers) and package the stuff under their name, but they provide their own guarantees and are well established and respected.

Check compatibility carefully - I haven't looked in detail, but those two pump listings quote different years - it may be that the pump has changed (or it may be that it has been revised, but a revised pump will fit earlier cars). I dunno.

[Ishaq]

Thanks John 😉

[toffee_pie]

Toyota require a unique coolant formulation. Most "generic" coolants in the UK are designed to match a formulation used by GM, and this formulation is pretty similar to formulas used by German and French manufacturers.

Japanese manufacturers use a completely different formula; the only way to get this Japanese formula is to buy the genuine article.

Whether this makes any real difference is anyone's guess. The main reason for the unique Toyota formulation is because their engineers were worried that the European formulation could corrode water pump seals. That said, the main reason for damaged water pump seals is usually crud in the cooling system scratching the seals or getting stuck in them. The European formulations have the advantage that they are better metal corrosion protectors, they are also a ton cheaper.

this 'special' coolant is not doing much if water pumps fail @ 50k~ miles........

[ChumpusRex]

I'm pretty sure that Aisin is the OEM for lexus water pumps.

[Ishaq]

Thanks Chumps...I was looking at that just now reading on forums. Placing my order tomorrow.

BTW will be sticking to the Pink Toyota Coolant as for £40 for 5L don't want to do anymore damage.

Will update in a few weeks as parts coming from US except coolant is from stealers in Woodford

Thanks everyone for all your help!!!

[ChumpusRex]

this 'special' coolant is not doing much if water pumps fail @ 50k~ miles........

I think this might be to do with the coolant being too old. I think lexus recommend 10 years or 100k for the first coolant change. I suspect this is too long. I've got 150k miles and the water pump looks fine, but it's had the coolant changed every 3 years or so.

I'd expect that leaving coolant for 10 years, you're going to get little bits of grit and stuff from corrosion building up; and if any little grain of grit gets stuck on the water pump seal, it can damage it.

I've got 10 litres of toyota pink in for the next coolant change, which I'll do slightly early. But I think after that, the pink is too expensive, and I'll switch to something else; maybe prestone universal.

[Ishaq]

Chumps is that how much you need for full drain and refill as Lexus told me 5L is enough for drain and fill.

Thanks

[toffee_pie]

probably 5.5, i gave 2 x 5l bottles to my mechanic, he gave me back a bottle that was about half full i guess.

[ColinBarber]

this 'special' coolant is not doing much if water pumps fail @ 50k~ miles........

I think this might be to do with the coolant being too old. I think lexus recommend 10 years or 100k for the first coolant change. I suspect this is too long. I've got 150k miles and the water pump looks fine, but it's had the coolant changed every 3 years or so.

I'd expect that leaving coolant for 10 years, you're going to get little bits of grit and stuff from corrosion building up; and if any little grain of grit gets stuck on the water pump seal, it can damage it.

I've got 10 litres of toyota pink in for the next coolant change, which I'll do slightly early. But I think after that, the pink is too expensive, and I'll switch to something else; maybe prestone universal.

if you are going to change early then no point in purchasing super long life coolant. Use the older Toyota red coolant.

Corrosion built up shouldn't happen, that is the point of using these special coolants, however if there is any build up then a small piece could break away at any stage - maybe even when filling up with new coolant. I don't believe changing the coolant really makes a difference either way provided the old coolant is still fit for purpose.

The main fact is between 2004 and 2011 Toyota's quality dropped. Water pumps have been leaking on other models at 50k miles or less when even the older Red coolant wouldn't have been changed. You also get the other extreme with no problems at 200k miles even without changing the coolant once, but the trend is certainly showing more failures.

[ColinBarber]

Chumps is that how much you need for full drain and refill as Lexus told me 5L is enough for drain and fill.

Thanks

That info should be in your owners manual. I'd be surprised it is was as little as 5 litres.

[johnatg]

According to the workshop manual, the full coolant capacity from a dry engine is 9.1 litres. You won't fully drain it during a normal drain/refill but you certainly need more than 5 litres.

I wonder if the dealer only drains the rad?

(Or maybe they were meaning 5 litres of concentrate, but don't contemplate using that in a hard water area like London (unless you also buy deionised water). I would only use deionised water anyway, wherever you live, for mixing with concentrate. Safer to buy premix, but don't flush the system with plain water if you do)

[ChumpusRex]

Just found out that Mazda now use a coolant with pretty much an identical formulation to Toyota pink, they call it "FL22 gold" - it's made by CCI which is the same OEM that makes the Toyota coolant. The only difference is that it's about £15 for 5 litres, instead of £40 for 5 litres, and that it's got a green dye in, rather than pink.

http://www.mx5parts.co.uk/coolant-premixed-fl22-longlife-ltrs-mazda-only-p-1594.html

Like Toyota Pink it's only available pre-mixed. This Japanese formula is deactivated by hard water, so the manufacturer only offers it in pre-mixed form (to prevent complaints due to mixing with hard water).

[johnatg]

I'm not sure that there's not a lot of mumbo jumbo around as far as antifreeze is concerned.

eg - from the safety data sheet for FL22:

(Quote)

Composition/information on ingredients

This product also contains approximately 10 ppm of bittering agent, denatonium benzoate.

Ethylene glycol; (ethanediol) - 50-100%

Other ingredients, determined not to be hazardous according to NOHSC criteria, and not dangerous according to the ADG Code, make up the product concentration to 100%

(end quote)

FL22 (pre-mix only) is sold by Mazda dealers for £56 for 5 litres (Q. - who to?) - MX5Parts sell it for £12.07 for 5 litres

BTW - there's plenty of Toyota Long Life Red Coolant concentrate available on eBay - eg item

221480963080

[ChumpusRex]

I'm not sure that there's not a lot of mumbo jumbo around as far as antifreeze is concerned.

There is a lot of mumbo jumbo, but there are lots of different formulations; not all are compatible with each other or with all cars.

Very briefly coolant consists of 2 components:

1. Antifreeze

2. Corrosion protectors

1. Antifreeze is provided by ethylene glycol in almost all coolants. Alternative antifreezes include propylene glycol and glycerine. PG is more expensive but is non-toxic. EG is lethally toxic and tastes like maple syrup, so children and animals like to drink it, so some manufacturers add flavourings to it to make it taste nasty. The most recent one is glycerine, which is cheap as it is a waste product of biodiesel production and is non-toxic, so some manufacturers now use glycerine for their antifreeze.

Any antifreeze compromises the cooling capability of the water. EG has the best cooling capability. PG and glycerine are less good, but in general, unless you are racing, or have an engine that is stressed to the limit (like the new ford 1.0 125 bhp ecoboost), you shouldn't have any trouble.

2. Corrosion inhibitors are much more important, because there are lots of incompatibilities, and some manufcaturers like to keep their formulations a trade secret, so won't list the inhibitors in the ingredients.

In general there are 3 main classes of corrosion inhibitor:

A - Inorganic inhibitors - These are used in the "traditional" UK blue or green coolants, and almost always a silicate compound, but some formulations also use borates, molybdates, nitrites, and phosphates. The problem with silicates is that they are unstable and tend to degrade quickly, so the coolant needs replacing after 2 years or so. Silicates work well on aluminium and iron.

B - Organic acid inhibitors - These are used as "long life" coolants. These degrade much slower than silicates. However, there are many different acids in use. The most popular one is ethyl-hexanoic acid. However, EHA is a solvent and as a softener for plastics and rubbers. A number of manufacturers noticed an increase in head gasket failures and water pump failures after the switch to this formulation. Toyota recognised this and used a different acid (benzoic acid) for their red coolant. Benzoic acid works, but isn't very good and it offers no protection for iron, brass, or for soldered joints - so at the time Toyota introduced red, they redesigned their engines and cooling systems to use pure aluminium only with no soldering and no brass.

Pretty much every aftermarket long-life coolant you can get in the UK is of this class, and contains EHA, although some contains EHA and some less-solventlike acids.

C - The new formulations are "hybrid" inhibitors - a combination of A and B. Most hybrids use silicates as the inorganic component and EHA as the organic component. However, the Japanese manufacturers use phosphate as inorganic and sebacic acid as organic.

The problem with phosphate is that it is incompatible with silicates and with hard water; it is deactivated by both, and can form a sludge.

So, if you mix toyota pink with a silicate hybrid or a "classic" coolant, you could be in trouble. However, the pink and red are fully compatible. Similarly, both pink and red are fully compatible with "universal" coolants (which are organic coolants with no silicate or phosphate).

The other issue is that if you use a generic coolant, you will get EHA. The manufacturers that have used EHA for years, have by now redesigned their gaskets, seals and hoses to be resistant to it. However, as Toyota have never used it, there is no guarantee that their gaskets/hoses/etc. are compatible.

[Ishaq]

Hi guys can I please ask for you opinion?

1. Buy parts myself £150 plus fit by ex Lexus tech for £100 = £250 plus he will give the car a inspection drain and fill coolant plus address a ticking noise on my rear breaks but this due to the pad need refitting.

2. Lexus dealer fixed price £295. This seems a good deal but would they try and fob me off with other items like...oh you need new aux belt or rad or something like that.

I know my wife will always say for the sake of £30-40 it's better to go to the dealer.

[ChumpusRex]

I'd go with no. 1

[normski2]

No 1 sounds like a good option for you.

You'll have a guy who knows what to do before he opens the bonnet.

[IS200D]

Hi guys can I please ask for you opinion?

1. Buy parts myself £150 plus fit by ex Lexus tech for £100 = £250 plus he will give the car a inspection drain and fill coolant plus address a ticking noise on my rear breaks but this due to the pad need refitting.

2. Lexus dealer fixed price £295. This seems a good deal but would they try and fob me off with other items like...oh you need new aux belt or rad or something like that.

I know my wife will always say for the sake of £30-40 it's better to go to the dealer.

Hi,

Hope you dont mind me asking, but where is your ex Lexus tech - only if he's near enough, I'm thinking it makes sense to get him to check mine too.

[Ishaq]

His name is Dan Bailey. Mobile 07878 018 732. Definitely worth a call.

Just say Ishaq passed you the details as he's currently working on my car

[Ishaq]

He is from Enfield with his garage in Hainult but will come to you for servicing and other out of garage jobs. Hope it helps

[IS200D]

Many thanks Ishaq, thats very useful, will definitely mention you!

[Ishaq]

Hi just got the water pump today from Kimber Car Parts at only £84 the cheapest I found. I got the BluePrint ADT391103

http://www.kimbercarparts.co.uk/cooling-heating/Water-Pumps/Lexus/IS250/all/2.5/2006/Parts.aspx

When I opened the box I saw that the Toyota sign has been etched off and there is a sticker saying AISIN - so this means that this is a genuine Toyota part manufactured by AISIN for Toyota and Lexus and also sold to BluePrint. Lexus charge £140 for the part so its a bargain!!!

Coolant coming from Toyota eBay a company called SnowGroup 10 Liters for £70 - Saving £10 free delivery as Lexus is £80

Fitting - £100 - - - - - - Total Cost - £254